Micro 1006 | Hydrogen-9121 | The End
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Vanderscamp
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Yeah I completely agree with this.In post 6, RationalMadman wrote:We should push for elminations today. Not for a NL and also not with the normal random-elmination(RE, as opposed to the former RL) strategy.
The setup is 100% open to scum, who know which PR can can catch them and want town to not use their free moselimination.
We stop at E-1 and before hammering let the person claim
If they are counterclaimed, we hammer on them. The other PR is probably useless to us but still is utilisable as a clear to lead the following day phase. Even if we hammer the real PR, it is as bad regardless.
So, we should talk as much as possible as this is a setup where the PRs only matter day two but where we as a town should put deep pressure on each other and scum from the get-go since we can't protect the investigative PR with a role regardless, so we're they're only useful for finding a scum member and dying the next night phase anyway.
If at E-1 they go un-counterclaimed (unCC'd) we unvote and let them lead the elimination today (again at E-1 we let the person claim).
No matter what, the PR is useless when it comes to finding both Mafia or WW. We should be hunting instantly and sharing thoughts.
I'm guessing when you say random elimination you're talking about the informal process of hammering people at will?-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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It wouldn't mean absolutely nothing, if they have a "clear" on someone their chance of being scum gets cut in half.In post 11, RationalMadman wrote:If we play passive and scum hits a PR on night phase 1, we are potentially screwed in entirety as the results from the other PR meam absolutely nothing during day 2 regardless (si ce we don't know which type of scum it is)-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Who is the other guy?In post 15, Agent of Chaos wrote:I haven't played with anyone here before, should be fun.
Anyone here a total newb? Myself and the other guy are experienced, let me know if you have any questions.
Conversation hasn't really started yet, so it's random vote time. Obviously, the guy above me can't be scum, his avatar is too cute. Perhaps it's a ploy, though...-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Roughly how serious is this?In post 20, Agent of Chaos wrote:
Someone is getting a permaban.In post 19, Enchant wrote:lynch
Say your prayers!
I'm guessing not very but with a grain of truth that it should be avoided?-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Not super helpful for you to have said thisIn post 28, Enchant wrote:
Yep, that's what i meant.In post 21, RationalMadman wrote:
The chances are 1/5 if you mean the PR that can catch the type of scum but there's both Cop and Seer regardless if I understand the setup correctly.In post 19, Enchant wrote:you
So the odds are 40% not 25% but are 20% for the PR that cpuld physically have caught (and we won't know either way if a PR dies Night One unless the other found a guilty or wolf read)
But most effective play for mafia who getting killed then is claim PR which they fear (Mafia claim Cop, Werewolf claim Seer). They dying anyway and have nothing to lose, but can reveal PR. It's still 1vs1 though.
So it's impossible to kill mafia without revealing PR right now, as they WILL fakeclaim, if they are somewhat competent.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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This is not the solution.In post 30, Enchant wrote:
Yes. It's anti-town.In post 22, RationalMadman wrote:If Not_Mafia can't control himself and hold back from hammering as town, that is a severe violation. I don't want to be accused of OGI so I won't discuss the implications of that. However, it is 100% anti-town to hammer before the voted has a chance to claim in this setup even if you are one of the two PRs.
No, he still doing that.
As long as no one at E-1, we are fine. We can ask claims on E-2 without much danger.RationalMadman wrote:We shouldn't cower out of voting just because someone has a meta of hammering as any alignment. It's them who should cower out of doing so.
And yes, i am Town.
If I get there I will refuse to claim at E-2, I'm not going to be part of an obviously worse strategy just to accommodate for town (not that we even know that that is the case) who are intentionally playing poorly.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I don't think enchant is scummy but I don't think this is a good reason to townread someone.In post 35, RationalMadman wrote:I also townread Enchant not for what they said page 1 (or he, pronoun not revealed so I will stick to they) but because they follow up by consistently explaining that they support the lynch today just that E-2 is preferable to E-1 as we have a player with habit of hammering regardless. This shows me also that the discussion of odds was regarding how i stantly wrong things can go if the E-1 outs as a PR.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Sure, I'm more asking how important it is to avoid using that word, I've used it for a very long time and there's a pretty decent chance I'll accidentally say it.In post 64, Agent of Chaos wrote:
It has racistic subtext.In post 62, Vanderscamp wrote:
Roughly how serious is this?In post 20, Agent of Chaos wrote:
Someone is getting a permaban.In post 19, Enchant wrote:lynch
Say your prayers!
I'm guessing not very but with a grain of truth that it should be avoided?
I am crazy enough to take down Batman, but BLM? No - thank you!-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I think it's a better strategy to punish anyone who plays anti-town, in this way or others, by setting the bar for how towny they need to be to be higher, particularly if someone will do it as both alignments.In post 68, Agent of Chaos wrote:
I agree. Letting N_M and/ or me lolhammer is much better strategy.In post 66, Vanderscamp wrote:
This is not the solution.In post 30, Enchant wrote:
Yes. It's anti-town.In post 22, RationalMadman wrote:If Not_Mafia can't control himself and hold back from hammering as town, that is a severe violation. I don't want to be accused of OGI so I won't discuss the implications of that. However, it is 100% anti-town to hammer before the voted has a chance to claim in this setup even if you are one of the two PRs.
No, he still doing that.
As long as no one at E-1, we are fine. We can ask claims on E-2 without much danger.RationalMadman wrote:We shouldn't cower out of voting just because someone has a meta of hammering as any alignment. It's them who should cower out of doing so.
And yes, i am Town.
If I get there I will refuse to claim at E-2, I'm not going to be part of an obviously worse strategy just to accommodate for town (not that we even know that that is the case) who are intentionally playing poorly.
If I have a close decision from reads between two people, I'll go for the one who has been more anti-town unless I have meta reasons to think that their anti-town plays are town-indicative for whatever reason.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Because forcing more claims from people is generally not helpful.In post 73, Enchant wrote:
Explain why this strategy is worse or you getting my vote for this day.In post 66, Vanderscamp wrote:
This is not the solution.
If I get there I will refuse to claim at E-2, I'm not going to be part of anobviously worse strategyjust to accommodate for town (not that we even know that that is the case) who are intentionally playing poorly.
If this isn't the case, if more claims are fine or we are at least indifferent to them, then we should (or be at least indifferent to an) all claim today.
But I think that's pretty clearly not true.
Forcing claims at E-2 instead of E-1 forces more people to claim, assuming that we do not eventually put every person who gets to E-2 at E-1.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Yeah, it's not exactly a half most of the time.In post 75, RationalMadman wrote:
That's not really how odds work but I do kind of understand what you mean as it's 1/2 chance the setup is that setup.In post 59, Vanderscamp wrote:It wouldn't mean absolutely nothing, if they have a "clear" on someone their chance of being scum gets cut in half.
If it's a D1 VT kill without any other claims, and one of the roles dies in the night, a clear from the other role the next day makes chances of the clear being scum 1/3, with the other players being scum 5/9 each. If it was a scum kill D1 with no claims, a clear becomes 1/7 scum vs 2/7 scum for the other players, but most of the time it's not going to be as clear cut.
Even still I think if someone is cleared tomorrow by an investigative role that may or may not be useless, we shouldn't treat it as an actual clear, but I think it should definitely be enough to give them immunity from the kill for that day unless they're acting extraordinarily scummy.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Sure, what I'm saying is that I won't be claiming unless someone gives intent to hammer me.In post 76, Enchant wrote:
... Oh. That's what you meant.In post 74, Vanderscamp wrote:
Because forcing more claims from people is generally not helpful.In post 73, Enchant wrote:
Explain why this strategy is worse or you getting my vote for this day.In post 66, Vanderscamp wrote:
This is not the solution.
If I get there I will refuse to claim at E-2, I'm not going to be part of anobviously worse strategyjust to accommodate for town (not that we even know that that is the case) who are intentionally playing poorly.
If this isn't the case, if more claims are fine or we are at least indifferent to them, then we should (or be at least indifferent to an) all claim today.
But I think that's pretty clearly not true.
Forcing claims at E-2 instead of E-1 forces more people to claim, assuming that we do not eventually put every person who gets to E-2 at E-1.
E-2 doesh't means you should claim immediatly. And it's not like anyone does, even if they are on E-1, otherwise it would be chaotic. There's mostly warning and ask to claim if it needed, and it happens after decision made, so you kinda forced to claim.
Most common practice at end of days is placing someone on E-1 and asking them to claim. Nothing changes if you put people on E-2 and ask to claim... I already told why E-1 is dangerous.
Massclaim doesh't benefit us, less claims is better.
If I get hammered without warning by some rogue agent the onus is on the rogue agent to justify why we shouldn't kill them for it, not on me (or anyone else) for not wanting to claim unnecessarily early.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I don't disagree at all with your reasoning about Enchant for coming to the conclusion that he's pro-town, or even impossible to scum read, I just think it's not hard at all for a helpful scum to post what he's said so far.In post 77, RationalMadman wrote:I stand by my primary reason for townreading Enchant, I townread him for consistent contributions that are not just quantitative but qualititative high-scores.
Enchant has helped us even if they are scum, more than almost anyone else except I would say myself.
This is impossible to scumread to be perfectly honest. He hasn't fluff-posted much at all, has continually pressured and questioned. I will not read Enchant as scum unless extreme circumstances change and if I am somehow alive alongside them at a later stage in this game.
I can tunnel a scumread hard and do the same with townreads too and see no issue with it. I hard-townread, whether or not you agree with my reason for doing so.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Do we know that AoC would give this level of contribution as either alignment?...In post 79, RationalMadman wrote:I don't support the bandwagoning of AoC based solely on the trolling, I will only join such a bandwagon if AoC flat-out refuses to change this day's vote dynamic from being AoC vs myself.
AoC would troll as either alignment and has been so active in the thread quanty-wise that I feel it is becoming a townsided thing. Why would fae post again and again and again as scum? AoC would probably back off or ramp up the trolling if scumsided in this scenario.
And it's not just the trolling, I read the comment about you talking about mafia specifically (when you didn't) as weird and forced.
You can keep your read on enchant but I emphatically disagree with thinking AoC is townsided for consistently being here but declining to do anything useful.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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If it's obvious not_mafia is happy to kill me and he's not voting me, sure.In post 90, Enchant wrote:Vanders, you just need to know. If you on E-2 and ASKED to claim, then you probably should claim. Simple because placing you on E-1 would be dangerous.
We not in situation to punish anti-town behavior. As i said, he doing that regardless of alignment, and last thing i want to see is him getting lynched after hammering town and flip town as well and instaloss.
Well. There's possibility he will hammer mafia, but still not worth it.
... Not_Mafia most hot discusion here, and even didn't posted once. Which is hilarous.
If not_mafia randomly hammers me or anyone else for no reason, be very inclined to kill him tomorrow despite what you say about his style.
The response to pro-scum play should not be to accept it and accommodate it.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I accept that last line, so why do you think they would be inclined to troll less as scum?In post 91, RationalMadman wrote:Even in the queue thread, AoC was trolling with their first 2 posts on the site, one actually personally trolled myself.
After I in'd, AoC said 'I see I will be in good company' sarcastically or something.
I won't mention more than that, you can see the post history (it was only 2 posts anyway and the other didn't apply to me). This isn't me discussing other games in this thread as it isn't even ongoing and was the queue thread.
AoC is very clearly not concerned whatsoever with how annoyed other users get towards faem.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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In post 102, Agent of Chaos wrote:I strongly opt for lolhammerring.
Claimed cop is twice as likely to be fake than not!
It's clearly not the case that both of these statements are true given we have a guaranteed cop and a guaranteed seer and only two scum.In post 103, RationalMadman wrote:Or claimed seer if it's werewolves.
One of them can be true if scum are weighted towards a specific claim.
It's definitely not the case that a PR claim is more likely to be fake than real (barring the potentially different odds of running up scum vs PRs)-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I'm not sure if this is a troll or notIn post 110, Agent of Chaos wrote:True. If he makes it to 3v2, we get 5/30 win, not 4/30
If he somehow makes it even to 2v1 we get an astonishing 2/6->3/6.
I can already see my odds rising!-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Oh.In post 113, Agent of Chaos wrote:I think you do not get my point.FURRIES -> cop ≈ VT
MAFIA -> cop is 66% fake.
Since we are auto-TERMINATING Vanilla Townies, we might as well auto-TERMINATE almost Vanilla Townies.FURRIES -> Seer is 66% fake.
MAFIA -> Seer ≈ VT
In the win percent increase examples you mentioned earlier, you give examples that lead to a 25% and 50% increase in winning chances respectively. I don't think this is nothing.
I don't agree that we should be auto-killing VTs and your conclusion pretty obviously doesn't follow even if we were.
How are we even supposed to know if they are the "almost vanilla townie?"...-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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If this is responding to me, I'm talking about when we see the claim.In post 119, Enchant wrote:If this is game with dogs, Cop without CC is just confirmed townie. If this game with mafia, Seer without CC is just confirmed Townie.-
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I have no idea what to say if you genuinely believe that a confirmed town in a game with 5 total town is an almost useless role.In post 122, Agent of Chaos wrote:
I agree.In post 119, Enchant wrote:If this is game with dogs, Cop without CC is just confirmed townie. If this game with mafia, Seer without CC is just confirmed Townie.
Confirmed Townie, almost useless role.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I mean, his join date is like two weeks ago and what he said was that he was noobish and that this is his first micro which is not wrong.In post 137, RationalMadman wrote:Well I'm not unvoting, he's also weirdly feigning being brand new by saying it's his first micro game but isn't his first game.
I would still rather vote AOC who has been very active but has contributed nothing but trolls and bad strategy advice.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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RM, I think Robert is not towny and I wouldn't lose sleep over a flip there, but I think it says a lot that you are ignoring stuff like this from AoC that is, at best, pointless trolling, but your response to a VT claim from Robert is that it is a "clever bluff" and not believable.In post 149, Agent of Chaos wrote:May by a bluff.
Though, for mafia it would be better to just fake reads!
Not sure about werewolves.
I don't think AoC is towny and I really don't understand why you do.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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In post 168, Robert M Hunter wrote:The scum (aka RationalMadman) has taken total control of the narrative in this game. It's easy to go after novice/low-activity players during the day, and night kill the more active townies. The scum isn't going after Not_Mafia because that player won't respond back at all, so there is no reward persecuting them - but they are seemingly worried about Not_Mafia hammering, though.
He posts a lot, some of it is game strategy, calling active players town, and less active players scum - for some reason keeps saying AoC is trolling? Most of his posts are complete garbage filler, but hey. That's how he keeps tight control of the narrative.
VOTE: RationalMadman
Never mind, VOTE: Robert M Hunter
I'm on the bandwagon-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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GreatIn post 169, Not_Mafia wrote:SUPCLODPOLES,I'MTHEJESTERANDI'MHERETOTROLLTHEFECALMATTEROUTOFTHISGAME!
VOTE: Not_Mafia-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I agree with this, this is why I voted him because it does seem manufactured.In post 176, RationalMadman wrote:I am very curious why you only mention this read and stuff now. You literally were E-1 and all you said is you're vanilla town, do whatever. You didn't even say I was scum or vote me, you're only doing it right now. If you think as scum I'd oush this hard for you even after you outed, you are wrong but I don't think you're just wrong I think you are scum.
I'm not sure why you unvoted him.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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This is somehow more disappointing than your promised trolling would have beenIn post 187, Not_Mafia wrote:Attempted to catch up, got halfway through page 2 and got bored
None of Rational Madman’s posts are worth reading, Agent of chaos is scum-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Why are you playing this game?In post 194, Not_Mafia wrote:I haven't read any of their posts-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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I use male pronouns.In post 195, RationalMadman wrote:I think vander is scum in this game potentially (not just potentially but you get the point).
Assuming they/them pronouns here.
Vander seems to be asking questions to players and voting the path of least resistance without having a hard stance of their own from what I see.
There is something off about it because I sense that Vander is capable of a lot more aggression in cross-examining than what's been done so far. On the other hand, Vander is one of the only players actively doing it so I not sure how to justify a vote but I'm outing this vibe/gut read here and now.
I do think they easily are scum WITH Robert. That team isn't unthinkable. Vander could be throwing Robert under the bus here out of self-preservation as they see a bad long-term outcome of teaming with Robert. Actually, Vander could be with anyone at all because of how neutral the core stance is. I ask Vander to make clear the reads they have and reasoning behind each. Nullreads are fine but I'm unclear who Vander townreads, only clear that voting Robert through to elimination is supported.
I think my reads have been extremely clear this game!
I've outlined them all already.
I thought Robert was null leaning scummy until his bigger post where he goes after you, and I think that post was very scummy and probably the scummiest thing anyone has posted this game.
I think you are towny because of how hard you seem to be trying.
I think your town reads on Enchant and AoC are poor, particularly the AoC one.
Despite being consistently present, I think AoC has contributed literally nothing of value the entire game, and the only thing I've liked from that seat was the dumbtell about day chat for scum.
I think it's very easy for scum to post what Enchant has said so far, but given that he's basically the only person other than you or me who is trying to provide actual content he is basically off the table for me until he starts to sound actively scummy.
Everyone else is null.
I don't think it's particularly useful to cross examine or have strong reads this early in the game, unless something is super obvious, because it just leads to tunneling.
For example I think what you did with Robert's initial entrance posts is in general pretty counterproductive (even though I think in this case you are town and were correct with your read) because it makes it much harder to objectively evaluate people. As an example of this, Robert claimed VT and you had this claim as an unbelievable claim and a clever bluff, which are both things that are essentially never true about a VT claim in a situation like this.
I'll accept not being town read by you, or even scum read, that's fine; I think I'm definitely within my scum range this game.
What I won't accept is me being one of the only seats that is trying so far, with one of us posting shit like "I think this makes sense coming from wolves, but not necessarily mafia" or whatever the fuck it was, and you deciding you would rather flip my seat over either AoC or the scummy nulls.-
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I do think this is a mildly towny stance, I think scum would be more likely to just call him scum.In post 201, Enchant wrote:
No. There's point, where i don't want him alive regardless of alignment.In post 198, RationalMadman wrote:If you think Robert us town, unvote him btw
If he is Town, he probably will become shapegoat, probably will not help later and also never will be nightkilled.
There's still high possibility he is just mafia.
Either way, this is not person, for which i want give future of town.-
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In post 204, RationalMadman wrote:To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.
This is extremely scummy imoIn post 209, Robert M Hunter wrote:
You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.In post 205, RationalMadman wrote:So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands
I very much do not believe this is genuine from Robert, I think he is just retaliating.-
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Can you talk more why this is the case?In post 218, RationalMadman wrote:
Until your most recent posts, I considered you and Not_Mafia as extremely high candidates in that spectrum as well as AoC being within it but over time AoC has moved into proactive territory after some contributions following faes unvoting of Robert.In post 212, xijinping wrote:Can you explain how you get to the conclusion that if scum!Robert doesn't care, his partner doesn't care either? Who would you consider "doesn't care about this game"?
As for the first question, it's very simple, I do not believe that the safer bet/assumption/conclusion to make if Robert is scum, is that his partner is in any shape or form playing well. The kind of partner that would inspire Robert to play how he's playing is one that has somehow tilted Robert into feeling 'screw this game'.
That said, it's a weak conditional read, not a strong one.
A strong conditional read is that if Robert is town, AoC is town for how AoC reacted to Robert claiming vanilla.
Because I don't understand why it's towny for anyone to have voted Robert up until that point, see a VT claim, and then decide to move elsewhere, particularly if Robert is town.
Why wouldn't scum be incentivized to try to run up other people once they see a VT claim from Robert in the hopes of outing PRs?-
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I don't understand what's happening this game if you are town, not_mafia.
You came into this game with energy and a self vote and since your first post your energy has been zero.
Why are you even playing this game if you have no interest in hunting at all?
Why is this not you as scum seeing that your partner Robert is likely going down and losing all motivation?
I think we are in quite a good spot because I am quite confident Robert is mafia and we'll be able to kill him without needing any town to claim.-
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We might have different opinions on what counts as taking the game seriously, but if this (AOC's next post):In post 223, RationalMadman wrote:
The third question is very pertinent. AoC didn't and hasn't even slightly moved on from unvoting Robert to pushing for another lynch in this day phase. Fae hasn't even threatened it. This is extremely important in understanding what the 'nature of' the unvote was, simply to give Robert breathing room, let the day drag on and let us perhaps get reads on the 2 lurkers.In post 221, Vanderscamp wrote:Why wouldn't scum be incentivized to try to run up other people once they see a VT claim from Robert in the hopes of outing PRs?
As scum, AoC would probably (if Robert isn't his partner) sit there giggling and wait for someone to hammer. At the very least, there's no real reason for AoC to suddenly not just unvote but take the game seriously after that point. I read the change in attitude as very towny if Robert is town. If Robert is scum, AoC could have acted in all those ways as the partner.
was taking the game seriously, then I think that's extremely scummy.In post 149, Agent of Chaos wrote:May by a bluff.
Though, for mafia it would be better to just fake reads!
Not sure about werewolves.
I think the reasoning for AoC to do it if Robert is town is to want to try and get other claims, without feeling the need to actually push on people. If AoC started pushing people and trying to run them up, that would definitely be an increase in seriousness, right? I'm not sure why you think the scum line from AoC in that spot involves an increase in seriousness, but that the increase in seriousness from AoC here is an indication of towniness.
I don't care too much about this though because I'm much more confident on Robert being scum than AoC.-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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What I find very suspicious from you is your sudden extreme confidence that he is scum.In post 230, Robert M Hunter wrote:
I'm not retaliation, I have a job with overtime shifts, I don't have the time and energy to fight off a scum with 98 posts that totally dominates the game and decided to call every word I type scummy, he's been pushing me down from the game's onset and keeps me down by kicking me in the nads at every opportunity. He's not a townie honestly trying to find my alignment, he's known my alignment from the start and he could smell I'm an easy mark.In post 220, Vanderscamp wrote:In post 204, RationalMadman wrote:To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.
This is extremely scummy imoIn post 209, Robert M Hunter wrote:
You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.In post 205, RationalMadman wrote:So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands
I very much do not believe this is genuine from Robert, I think he is just retaliating.
Why can't he be town and wrong?-
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Vanderscamp Mafia Scum
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Because I feel his level of engagement has been very towny.In post 234, Robert M Hunter wrote:
Let me ask you, why aren't you suspicious of Madman's "sudden extreme confidence" that I'm scum before I had the chance to say anything?In post 231, Vanderscamp wrote:What I find very suspicious from you is your sudden extreme confidence that he is scum.
I don't feel like RM as scum needs to try as hard.
He's come out with several train of thoughts where he posts multiple posts in a row that I think have been towny.
I initially did fight back against his accusation against you because I didn't particularly agree with it.
But his confidence about you seems more natural than vice versa (and less strong at this point)-
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Why?In post 249, RationalMadman wrote:His mindset of tunneling me in revenge is not towny but the way he is sticking to it actually is towny.-
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I'm pretty sure I scumread his sudden turnaround before you said anything about it, but I completely agree with your reasoning.In post 257, xijinping wrote:
Yeah maybe this is scum too. I don’t like the fact that he is trying to present this as his own thought and not mineIn post 231, Vanderscamp wrote:
What I find very suspicious from you is your sudden extreme confidence that he is scum.In post 230, Robert M Hunter wrote:
I'm not retaliation, I have a job with overtime shifts, I don't have the time and energy to fight off a scum with 98 posts that totally dominates the game and decided to call every word I type scummy, he's been pushing me down from the game's onset and keeps me down by kicking me in the nads at every opportunity. He's not a townie honestly trying to find my alignment, he's known my alignment from the start and he could smell I'm an easy mark.In post 220, Vanderscamp wrote:In post 204, RationalMadman wrote:To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.
This is extremely scummy imoIn post 209, Robert M Hunter wrote:
You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.In post 205, RationalMadman wrote:So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands
I very much do not believe this is genuine from Robert, I think he is just retaliating.
Why can't he be town and wrong?
-Xi-
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I agree that it's less likely enchant is partners with Robert after this.In post 272, xijinping wrote:
?? How do you know this?Enchant wrote:Either way, it should ended some time. I take responsibility.
Just remember, tomorrow is final day. Don't just vote or mafia would perform funnyhammer.
If somehow Robert ends up flipping town this line by Enchant is incredibly scummy. How do you know tomorrow is going to be lylo. If Robert flips scum Enchant honestly could be town for this.
-Xi
If Robert flips scum which I pretty strongly believe will happen, I'm pretty happy killing not_mafia and AOC as my two kills-
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This is fairly towny assuming scumRobert though
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What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who believe Robert has a high chance of being scum but are voting him anyway.
R_M, Enchant, and Xi.
I think this is pretty towny because I think voters on Robert as scum with him would be more likely to push harder that he is scum, since imo he is pretty obviously very scummy and the reasons to townread him are pretty poor, or, if they are going to defend him, to not vote him.
AoC is calling him obv town after the flip which is a pretty absurd stance as scum partners with him since he is very far from obvious town and he's already dead. Why look even more shit than AoC does already by not having voted him?
Then, we have the guy who has done nothing all game and only pretended to hammer Robert when he already had the votes.
I believe the team is not_mafia and Robert.-
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Additionally, in the imo unlikely event that Robert does flip town, I would look pretty hard at AoC.
I think R_M's conditional read there is extremely poor.
I think in the world where Robert is town, AoC is likely scum and pushed on Robert, saw the VT claim, and decided that voting there was no longer worthwhile because they wanted to get other claims. It's not like when scum see a VT claim, especially a VT claim that was not in any way towny, they are super incentivized to stay there and try to end the day with a VT kill and no other claims.
I believe that R_M is looking at AOC's play from the perspective of how he would play scum in that spot and not from a standpoint of what makes sense to do. It's not like AoC was hard pushing kills in the first place, the fact that they did not suddenly pivot to this is not towny.-
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It is a slip, I did mean "being town," but I have no idea why I would be thinking "opposite of what Robert is" if I am scum who knows Robert is town, and wants to talk about the perspective of Robert being town.In post 293, RationalMadman wrote:
This could be a severe slip. He meant 'being town' so if Robert is town, Vander's brain may have slipped by meaning 'opposite of what Robert is'.In post 290, Vanderscamp wrote:What I'm seeing is a bunch of people who believe Robert has a high chance ofbut are voting him anyway.being scum
R_M, Enchant, and Xi.-
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Probably indicative that the slip is not coming from a scum perspective, right?In post 294, RationalMadman wrote:In fact that could be a slip either way around.-
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Sure, but I feel like there's no way it can even be scum-indicative.In post 298, RationalMadman wrote:You were meaning 'despite thinking this, they did that, so your brain was most likely processing 'despite this' and got confused. It could be an innocent error you made or be a slip, there is no reason for me to not point it out. This day ohase is ending any second and I want as much out there in case I'm nightkilled.-
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I don't think you bussed.In post 303, RationalMadman wrote:If anyone thinks I bussed say it right now. Cop doesn't out btw.-
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This is a good claim if you are cop, if there's a cop that's not N_M I will not believe you tomorrow.In post 311, Not_Mafia wrote:I’m cop. I’m not getting into a 1v1 tomorrow.-
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Why?In post 328, Agent of Chaos wrote:
I found his claim towny.In post 327, RationalMadman wrote:When you realised he was E-1, you kept voting him forcing out the claim at which point you instantly unvoted him.
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It's up to N_M but intent to put AoC at E-1.
I am not super confident on this because I do think it is a pretty weird line to call Robert obviously town when he's just about to flip scum, but I think this is a kill that definitely needs to happen and should happen today instead of tomorrow.
I don't think there's any chance I can choose AoC as the towniest player out of AoC/Xi/Robert, not just from being the only player to not have seriously voted Robert yesterday (I am not counting a vote that immediately disappeared after a not-very-towny VT claim that came directly afterwards as a serious vote), but also from the way they have been playing.
It could be that AoC just has a playing style that happens to really come across as scummy to me, but for pretty much the entire game AoC has felt present but not evaluative (if that's a word)
Like, even today, they are just giving us what feels like empty content. There's no discernible reasoning behind AoC thinking that Robert's claim was towny or that he felt like afk town, they're just saying it.
One of the only things I like is the statement about Xi being scum because of the wagon analysis, which I feel is likely a correct guess if AoC is town, but this is really not enough for me.
I doubt that I will have to convince the village super hard to kill AoC here but this is where I'm at.
If that flip doesn't win the game, I would kill Xi over R_M because I think what a Xi has done is easier to replicate as scum.-
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