Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Mafia PT

[usesPython]

First game back in close to 2 years and I roll scum.

fml

Weird way to spell let's gooo but I can roll with it

I'm a goon what about everyone else?

[usesPython]

We've played with DragonEater70 a good amount and have a single game with heipzhu4 that I don't remember anything about

[usesPython]

First game back in close to 2 years and I roll scum.

fml

Also on the bright side like half the playerlist is just new or returning players so you'll be fine

[usesPython]

Wartortle strikes me immediately as somebody's alt whose trolling but it might legitimately be someone coming from a different place.

Wartortle feels like someone coming from chat mafia

[usesPython]

We're just gonna naturally vibe in the main thread

[usesPython]

[usesPython]

btw Enchant always quickhammers day 1 so if they're off wagon and someone hits E-1 the day'll end

[usesPython]

Got it. Give me a run down on our strategy now. Python, you seem to be pushing several buttons at once

We're mostly in our "vibe and be obvtown" stage. We've got a slight pocket on DE going and the Naerys push was mostly just to distract away from OWER

[usesPython]

Also talk to me if you think what I'm doing is a bad idea or if I'm coming off too bossy or anything like that. I want us to work as a team but I might be getting too over-zealous.

If you think it'll work then go for it, right now none of us are really in any danger so I don't think we need to be hardcore cooperating rn

[usesPython]

Setup spec: We've got an RB and I'm figuring that since this is a simple game we probably have some form of Protect/Investigate combo that we're supposed to break up with an RB. If it were a straight Cop/Doc I'd think we'd have a strongman or something similar so perhaps a Tracker?

I'm still somewhat sure about my THS read as a PR but I might need to reread just to make sure I'm not biasing myself. Still, I think his reactions to being pushed to E-2 so early and his expressed feelings of helplessness (stating he has "no confidence in this town") make me think that he could be the Town Protective.

Recent Mini's with a Mafia Roleblocker:

• Mini Normal 2280:
  • 5x Vanilla Townie
    
    
  • Ascetic Townie
    
    
  • Town Tracker
    
    
  • Town Doctor
    
    
  • Town One-shot Backup Doctor
    
    
  • Mafia Roleblocker
    
    
  • Mafia Ascetic Neapolitan
• Mini Normal 2273:
  • 6x Vanilla Townie
    
    
  • Town Detective
    
    
  • Town JOAT
    
    
  • Town Non-Consecutive Night Vigilante
    
    
  • Town Combined Doctor Checker
    
    
  • Mafia Informed Traitor
    
    
  • Mafia Traitor-Enabler Bodyguard
    
    
  • Mafia Roleblocker
• Mini Normal 2267:
  • 6x Vanilla Townie
    
    
  • Town N1/N2/N3 Tracker
    
    
  • Town Friendly Neighbor
    
    
  • Town One-shot Neighborizer
    
    
  • Town Cop
    
    
  • Mafia Mailman
    
    
  • Mafia Watcher
    
    
  • Mafia Roleblocker

With just a roleblocker we're probably looking at roles like Doctor/Ascetic/Tracker

[usesPython]

Also, I earlier (136) said that I generally am willing to trust Python—it’s hard to back out of the pocket theory if I’ve previously said that, at least not without a Python scumflip or something.

Yeah that'd be pretty crazy

[usesPython]

Trying to send anonymous psychic signals to DE telling him to death-tunnel Wiz.

@Python btw do you have any PR reads at the moment? Thank you for providing those example games btw. I think Doctor/Tracker is what we can expect, although I am fearful of the possibility it might be a Watcher instead.

We don't really have any PR reads and in general in closed simple games like this I think it's better to just use the nightkill for thread control over trying to hit silent PR's

[usesPython]

I agree with using the NK for thread control which is why I'm looking at Wartortle/DE NK. I mostly ask because we have an RB and I think shooting for thread control might get difficult if Doc gets in the way.

The trick is to be so obvtown you get all the PRs saving you

[usesPython]

hi whats the sitch

Uhh basically DE was metaing Wiz as scum and they were duking it out for a while

None of us are in any real danger atm so take your time

[usesPython]

I do not like the way people are looking at Python right now and I feel like I should probably try and push something and wrest control of the thread but also the post I made was true I have like zero motivation to play after all the nonsense that happened at work yesterday.

Don't worry

fr tho we're normally like a cockroach when it comes to dayplay

[usesPython]

I do not think I am good at defending myself and really hoping the momentum does not shift on to me.

Very much considering a fear kill on Black for tonight.

We're down to kill Black tbh

[usesPython]

I feel like a Wartle lim into a Black kill puts us in a really strong position this game, gonna see if we can pivot to sheeping Shea

[usesPython]

the big problem with killing Black is high chance of Doc/BG being here and protecting her. I still think THS is likely to be a PR of some kind but killing Black tonight would heavily rely on us getting a good RB here unless the Doc just screws up.

Town needs two protects to actually change the amount of days the game goes on for. I think it's better to just take the shot and go for thread control, especially since we can also fakeclaim something like 1-shot Bulletproof or Doctor or Jailkeeper or Roleblocker

[usesPython]

I'm guessing we're shooting Wiz or THS tonight if we're not doing Black? Wouldnt be opposed to a Blackstar kill either

[usesPython]

We're down to kill THS, feels like a low info coasting type kill

[usesPython]

Anyone tracking crumbs cause we're not lol

[usesPython]

Responses:

Spoiler: Enchant

I would't believe this claim anyway.

I will shock you though.

I don't consider this trolling. I just don't really like D1, and i don't believe in D1 claims. That's simple.

If i did townread you i would't hammer you, but you didn't really convince me. Or i am bad at the game. Most likely i am bad, but hey, you also voted here, aye?

Spoiler: Blackstar

UNVOTE: Hu Tao
VOTE: Wartortle

Since we are slowly running out of time, i believe this is the best course of action.
E-1

VOTE: Wartortle

Wtf? Why would you hammer so fast?

Why not

He claimed cop afterward. If he’s telling the truth, then you just lost us a PR. It doesn’t seem like you care

Spoiler: Naerys

god i don't like day start. it's just useless crap, like bro i want a detective to get a guilty on a busboy, i want a freeloader to cc cop and get condemned, i want a marksman to shoot a claimed seer. i don't want none of this "vanilla townie" crap

based on this i dont think i´d trust tortle´s claim anyway

Spoiler: Roden

Why are y'all freaking out about the hammer when everyone kept saying we need to vote someone out and end the day? Like so many people were convinced Wartortle was scum no matter what was said leading up to the elim. Would a Vanilla Cop claim really be enough to change anyone's mind?

Spoiler: TheHoldSteady

Well, let's see if you all were right or not to completely ignore my feedback

Spoiler: SmileyDude1

As i already told i would't believe it anyway.

Methinks it would've been useful to see how others interacted with the claim, but what's done has been done at this point.

Smiley/Naerys/Roden would probably be my guesses for PR's

[usesPython]

Enchant response is weird because his reputation is a guy who barely tries and auto hammers anyone who hits l-1.

I don't know why he's writing a whole paragraph to justify that. He has a reputation of being pretty bad so if we kill enchant it might be the first time in his entire history on this site he's been nk'd n1. And there's a reason for that. Town almost always has to waste a lim on him.

So I'm much more interested in doing your plan but with the people reversed.

THS kill is probably the correct play but a n1 Enchant nk sounds funny as hell

[usesPython]

We can probably play out both scenarios so it depends on how silly y'all wanna get

[usesPython]

Extreme funny: kill enchant, claim 1-shot vig, other person claims doc with a save

[usesPython]

Yeah a perfect game is pretty realistic here tbh

[usesPython]

We can also do the kill instead but this is fine too

[usesPython]

btw why arent we killing Wiz?

[usesPython]

We could have hit BP maybe

[usesPython]

Black Star is definitely not scum

[usesPython]

Friendly Neighbor/Investigative there maybe?

[usesPython]

I just realized our ISO lets us slide into an Informed Townie (OWER is town) fakeclaim if necessary, gonna keep that card in the back pocket for massclaim

Actually do people still use Informed in the normal queue?

[usesPython]

Just checked, people still use Informed in the normal queue

[usesPython]

This game is simple though and I don't think Informed is simple

Just found out Informed got made a complex role

Need to talk to the CEO of Normal Games

[usesPython]

Game went into signups on Oct 6th and filled on the 25th, Normal queue got reworked on Oct 31st. I think the setup uses the old definition of "Simple" where it's basically just an arbitrary gut feel of how complex the setup is

[usesPython]

Old rules:

• Moderators may declare a complexity rating of either Simple or Complex for their Normal Game when the game goes into signups.
  • Complexity is defined by the following collection of characteristics. The more of them that a game has, the more likely it should be labeled complex rather than simple. The reverse is true as well: the fewer of these are applicable, the more likely the setup ought to be labeled as simple rather than complex.
    • Having several roles with modifiers, especially modifiers that affect targeting (e.g. simple, loyal) or fundamentally affect the way one would play the role (e.g. announcing, weak)
      
    • Having some roles with several modifiers
      
    • Having a large proportion of non-vanilla roles in general
      
    • Having anything that could be construed as a red herring (e.g., two of the same town role, a backup or enabler without a main role, a neighborhood with only mafia, a miller without a cop, etc.)
      
    • Having complicated interactions between roles (e.g. multiple blocking roles that may affect each other, generally anything that might make a reviewer need to think twice about how it would work)
      
    • Having many roles that aren't seen as frequently in normal games
      
    • Anything else that would potentially defy the expectations of a player who's played normal games before
  • Reviewers may choose to suggest or request a complexity rating, but complexity ratings are never mandatory.
    
  • If a moderator wants to use a complexity label, a reviewer needs to approve it.

[usesPython]

I want to make a post but drawing attention to myself 3 hours before I need to go to work and then being unable to defend myself for the next like, 9 hours or so feels really bad.

It's not that bad, dropping the first post of the day makes it memorable so even though people have time to complain it also means your rebuttal is the first thing they'll see when they come back and that'll stick with them.

It's the same tactic that got us townread d1 here until people read our ISO

[usesPython]

I think you're completely fine here and that a roden lim into pushing the people on the roden train is totally doable

[usesPython]

Roden going full "anti-spew" mode *hint* *hint*

[usesPython]

Roden going full "anti-spew" mode *hint* *hint*

More specifically, this:

VOTE: Roden

I don't care and I lost interest, just kill Black tomorrow

[usesPython]

I'm claiming 1-shot BP btw

[usesPython]

Oh so it was a doc.

I'm tempted to counter-claim just so we can get past this day without having the wagon shift back onto me.

You're kinda in a weak position so that'd just turn it into a 1v1

[usesPython]

what the fuck

what, literally said we're claiming 1-shot BP here lol

[usesPython]

what is with townies in games I'm in making bad fake claims

That's not a fakeclaim the backtrack was pretty clearly a joke, probably best not to use that dumbtell in main either

[usesPython]

Actually probably best for you to just go AFK and let the 1v1 here happen instead of bringing attention to yourself

[usesPython]

Notes for later:

1. X-Shot Bulletproof is Simple Normal (if anyone incorrectly checks the wiki)
   
2. X-Shot Juggernaut (Formerly Strongman) is Simple Normal
   
3. Doctor is Simple Normal

[usesPython]

what is with townies in games I'm in making bad fake claims

That's not a fakeclaim the backtrack was pretty clearly a joke

Nevermind

[usesPython]

btw why arent we killing Wiz?

wow that's crazy fr fr

[usesPython]

I'm inclined to believe Blacks claim btw, I don't think she knows enough about setup spec to know she needs to claim Macho here if she was fake claiming

[usesPython]

I'm headed to work, if I get elimmed before I return I think we just shoot Black tonight. No reason to let Watcher get a potential guilty even if the Macho part of the claim is fake.

Welcome to day 3 buddy

I think we always shoot Black here, her reads are pretty on point and there's a ready made excuse for the nightkill in that she claimed Macho Watcher

[usesPython]

There's theoretically the option to leave Black alive and just roleblock her but if anyone's good at setup spec they realize that Mafia Juggernaut + Mafia Roleblocker game is kinda stupid as hell

[usesPython]

Ok, thats a good point.

We still dont know what stopped the kill which makes me nervous in general but it is what it is.

If Blacks claim is real then it's likely a Doctor.

Normal Roles:

• Alien - No point in making the Watcher Macho since there's no unbreakable TP chain
  
• Babysitter - Possible, need to check how common those are in Normal games
  
• Bodyguard - No one died so no
  
• Bulletproof - Possible but unlikely since Macho implies a protective role and we don't have a Juggernaut
  
• Commuter - See bulletproof
  
• Doctor - Likely, fits with the Macho claim and is a pretty common role
  
• Hider - See bulletproof
  
• Jailkeeper - Would be very unusual to have a Macho Watcher + Jailkeeper since the Macho is there to prevent a TP chain while Jailkeeper already inherently prevents one
  
• Roleblocker - Would have come out so no
  
• Rolestopper - See Babysitter
  
• Shield - No one died so no

In short, Doctor/Babysitter/Rolestopper

[usesPython]

I'm not really super up on normal games these days but rolestopper used to be like extremely uncommon.

We just checked, pretty much no one runs Rolestopper/Babysitter so it's probably just a regular Doctor

[usesPython]

are JOATs normal these days? Could just be a joat of some kind, but again we have an ungated RB so that implies something worth roleblocking.

Would be pretty weird to have a JOAT be the only protective ability town has in a Macho game, JOAT + Gated Doctor could be a thing though

[usesPython]

I'm down with

python kill black shea rb ths

People can feel free to change if they disagree.

Might be controversial for python to do the kill but they're like the least likely to be tracked.

[usesPython]

btw are we playing for a 3 scum, 2 scum, or 1 scum endgame?

[usesPython]

I think its possible we're supposed to bus ower tomorrow or the day after.

Yeah I don't think OWER can endgame here, at best we could maybe force a Roden lim before that

[usesPython]

I think I need to deep wolf for us to win this game.

Possibly, but I think we can unironically go for a perfect game here as long as people forget about OWER. I don't think I go down here without taking multiple protectives with me through dayplay and we can play like the game is vanilla if a BlackStar lim happens by just roleblocking the JK at that point

[usesPython]

That might involve pushing python.

That can come later btw, I don't think anyone suspects us right now so if you as town would normally be able to get away with focusing on other things you should probably take advantage of that to let us push some lims through before people turn on us, especially if you can bring people who also ignored us into ELO

[usesPython]

did I TMI with that last post, I feel like I might've

trying to get Roden to push up BlackStar but might've gotten too zealous

Your setup spec is wrong here but you're still fine, the reason scum don't have a Ninja here because they don't need one. Mafias PR's in this setup are gonna be based on countering the shitload of protective roles and based on THS getting a no result without anyone claiming a roleblock it means that THS is either scum or that scum have a roleblocker

[usesPython]

Like scum don't need a Ninja to counter a 2-shot Watcher and a 1-shot Tracker

[usesPython]

You know I just realised we're all multitasking by default

[usesPython]

Night actions tonight should be roleblock Smiley and kill THS

[usesPython]

Actually Enchant might be the reason Black is Macho

[usesPython]

If we live tomorrow the only routes I see going forward for us are:

1. Claim scum holstered (literally why)
   
2. Claim Black lied about her Watcher claim and shot us (possible, she only claimed after everyone else claimed to be on us)
   
3. Accept the bus

[usesPython]

Shea I think it might be time to start bussing us. OWER can stay on cause he kinda goes down with us after D2 so might as well see if we can powerwolf a Blackstar elim through today

[usesPython]

I think we quickhammer BlackStar if we get the chance today unless you want us to slow-roll it for some reason

[usesPython]

It'd be really funny if we holstered to no kill again

[usesPython]

Do we need to quickhammer? I feel like this has enough momentum where its going to happen regardless.

Probably but we're not living past tomorrow so it's a question of do we want to secure the lim or do you need us to slow roll for a more convincing bus

[usesPython]

We'd be so close to winning this game if we had our kills lol.

If we had a nickel for every time we were in a game where a jailkeeper blocked two kills in a row we'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice

[usesPython]

So it's 9:3 at the moment, best case scenario we miselim and kill puts it at 7:3 tomorrow, then 5:3 which is MeLo, so best case scenario is us holding out for two more days.

It's 8:3 right now, if we mislim it goes 6:3 then we die cause this is pretty much a 1f1 so 5:2 afterwards. Y'all only need two mislims after today

[usesPython]

I'm actually not sure you dying after BlackStar is guaranteed I feel like with your BP claim there's enough uncertainty in the night actions that we could get one of the JOAT/JK elim'd

Mechanically speaking for us to be town either Black would have to be lying about the n2 visits (as in we got shot and she lied about who shot us) or scum would have had to holster n2 or Enchant would have had to stop the kill in some way.

Like we can definitely try to push Black if y'all want I just don't think it'll work out

[usesPython]

Night actions tonight should be roleblock Smiley and kill THS

I think night actions should be roleblock THS and kill Smiley actually

[usesPython]

Updated RL:
Solid Town: Smiley, Enchant, Anima
Leaning Town:Thestatusquo
Null:Black,Roden, THS
Leaning Scum:OWER,BlackStar
Solid Scum:Python

Anyone wanna point out the bussing angle of having BlackStar and Python both be scumreads? We'd do it ourselves but we'd rather keep making associatives with Naerys by giving them a pass

[usesPython]

Proposed Night Action

OutWorldER kills Black
thestatusquo roleblocks SmileyDude1

I don't think it matters who does the kill at this point except it can't be TSQ because I don't want to risk a mutual blocking scenario.

Actually:

@Mod How are you resolving mutual blocking scenarios? e.g A Mafia Roleblocker whose doing the kill and a Town Jailkeeper both block each other.

Missed a bracket woops.

Shea should be doing both actions imo

[usesPython]

wait nvm forgot we're blocking the jailkeeper

[usesPython]

Enchant isn't a protective or blocking role since they said they can't stop nightkills

[usesPython]

honestly with the way BlackStar and Black were talking at the end of the day.

We might be able to save Python here which would be hilarious.

You want us to go down fighting that it's a Ninja game or do we just go quiet mode? I don't really see a way for us to survive tomorrow

[usesPython]

Actually if Shea's roleblocking they should be doing both actions since they already get outed by a Tracker and having two Watchers would be pretty weird

[usesPython]

The good news is we should finally get a night kill.

You just jinxed it

[usesPython]

honestly with the way BlackStar and Black were talking at the end of the day.

We might be able to save Python here which would be hilarious.

You want us to go down fighting that it's a Ninja game or do we just go quiet mode? I don't really see a way for us to survive tomorrow

I think if you start the day fighting (either by saying it's a Ninja game or trying to say Smiley's JK is fake) we can see how it goes from there, but I think if we play on Black/BlackStar's paranoia that they showed at the end of today, we could at least get 1 more mislim before you go down.

I don't think people are dumb enough to fall for that and at this point the associatives are enough to get Shea to endgame so we'd rather not mess with that

[usesPython]

What do you think happened last night, Naerys?

From an external perspective the only mechanical explanations for the missing nightkill are:

1. scum!BlackStar attacks town!Python, fails due to town!Smiley Jailkeep
   
   
2. scum!Python attacks someone, fails due to town!Smiley Jailkeep
   
   
3. Scum holster (Doesn't explain why scum would holster on evens)
   
4. Ninja attacks town!Python (Would be weird to have a Ninja just to counter 2-Shot Watcher and 1-Shot Tracker, especially since those are towns only investigative roles)
   
5. Scum attacks town!Python and scum!Black lies about watcher results (Would be weird to have 1-Shot Tracker be towns only investigative role)
   
6. town!Enchant is secretly a PR and stopped the nightkill and also kept quiet for some reason (Good one)

These are the only mechanical paths that work for a town!Python game and all of them are way too unbelievable compared to "Python is scum and got blocked"

[usesPython]

Proposed Night Action:

Thestatusquo kills Black
Thestatusquo roleblocks SmileyDude1

??

Actually if we're outing ourselves tomorrow we should be the one doing the kill

Proposed Night Action:
Python kills Black
Thestatusquo roleblocks SmileyDude1

[usesPython]

Wish you hadn't posted. Now if I immediately vote you it looks staged so I have to wait.

I mean you can straight up just drop a naked vote or drop a vote and start partner specing, all that really changed is that we're outed

[usesPython]

I was going to do that but if I do that 10 seconds after you drop that post it screams planned bus.

Then you can enjoy Naerys doing exactly that

[usesPython]

You posting served no benefit and now I have to wait.

Also us immediately outing ourselves there was deliberate so that people like Naerys/Roden can't towntell

[usesPython]

We're gonna instahammer ourselves when we hit E-1 unless anyone has any objections?

[usesPython]

I just realised it's very possible we straight up lim half the town PRs this game

[usesPython]

there pretty much are no more Town PR's in this game except Smiley, and we can RB him every night. Especially if THS wasted his doc shot last night.

Yeah but it's still funny