Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[ting =)]

This is ridiculous. The game

will

stall. It's

already

stalling. We need to do something. Do you have a different suggestion?

[Joubert]

Dah, I knew it would come to that. If I vote SF, will the game deblock?

[SensFan]

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[jerubbaal]

I for one am somewhat glad of the inactivity as well. If you guys all clear your heads from this emotional mess with SF, you should be able to realize how terrible his claim, play, and PR are and how much we should simply lynch him and move on. Once we lynch him, we're down to two scum, keep a confirmed-ish townie in the clear spot, and then we wont' have any trouble at all isolating the last couple scum. We have three confirmed townies, if we use them well, we really can't lose. Just lynch all the unconfirmeds.

Please, be willing to admit that inexperience with the game is a very significant factor in this town and let clearer heads prevail. If I'm dead, even once SF gets lynched, I am not confident that you can win this scenario, especially if CES gets killed somewhere along the way. I do not want to lose this game, as we absolutely should not lose, by any measure.

[Joubert]

Jerubbaal, if you turn up Scum, can I punch you in the face?

[Khelvaster]

I'm still trying to find replacements

[jerubbaal]

You can say that and you're still willing to lynch me?

[Joubert]

I can punch you after you're lynched, no? It'll be less satisfying, but better than nothing, I guess...

[Korts]

Sorry to butt in, I know I'm being replaced and all, just one last parting comment:

If jerubbaal turns up scum, I'm fairly sure CES will have something to hide, too. They've been emphasising each other's townliness for quite a while now. I know CES may count as somewhat confirmed, but he's acting suspicious with this 'n'all. Peace, I'm out.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Haven't really got much to add right now, guess we better just wait for replacements. If anyone reading this hasn't okayed (or objected to) the lynch-jerub-then-pair-up-as-Korts-or-jerub-suggested plan, feel free to voice your opinion and let the rest of us know you're around.

[jerubbaal]

I object, obviously. I do think you should be spending this downtime reviewing the thread, doing some meta, and deciding if your opinions actually hold any water, which, ATM, I don't see. You are all being extremely lazy/biased just because I've been a jerk today, I suggest you grow up and play the game.

[Joubert]

I don't like Meta at all... Jerubbaal, the reason why some people prefer to lynch you and then act upon the results were explained earlier, and more than once... I don't think I need to explain again...

[jerubbaal]

If you ignore behavior and "just" act on result without considering how reasonable that action is, you're giving scum the optimal play for their position. We lynch me, then tomorrow you lynch SF, and we're down to just two confirmed townies and we're essentially in nightless mountainous from there on out. Our chances are good from there, but it's not auto-win. If I'm still alive, we have 3 confirmed townies and it is auto-win.

Think about it, it's auto win either way, if you lynch the right man. We gain nothing by a cop (another reason for his role simply to not be here). Which do you honestly think is more likely, that SF is scum or that I'm scum? Be smart about it, because it's not such a biased decision as you all want to think it is. You just have to be right and we win.

[SensFan]

If you ignore behavior and "just" act on result without considering how reasonable that action is, you're giving scum the optimal play for their position. We lynch me, then tomorrow you lynch SF, and we're down to just two confirmed townies and we're essentially in nightless mountainous from there on out. Our chances are good from there, but it's not auto-win. If I'm still alive, we have 3 confirmed townies and it is auto-win.

Think about it, it's auto win either way, if you lynch the right man. We gain nothing by a cop (another reason for his role simply to not be here). Which do you honestly think is more likely, that SF is scum or that I'm scum? Be smart about it, because it's not such a biased decision as you all want to think it is. You just have to be right and we win.

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[jerubbaal]

But the cop part is useless. It's really all about choosing who's not the scum here, not the cop claim (despite the fact that everyone else is ignoring this). Our only task today is to figure out who's scum, me or you (the answer's certainly easy for me). I think it's pretty blatant, and most other people have even conceded that point, but they're scared because of the whole cop claim thing. I am not letting you manage two townie lynches out of your terrible fake PR and claim, it's absolutely ridiculous.

[Imat]

I'm up for a Jeru lynch. His reaction to the logical plan wasn't good, and he continues with it. Hes not helping us, just restating the lynch SF plan over and over again. It holds less water now than it did when he started, IMO, and he hasn't looked at others for Scumminess. I'm sure he considers most of the people willing to vote him to be Scummy, but I also think hes just a bit biased in that regard.

Also Jeru, we're not voting you because of your insults, if you've made any, it because it is a logical plan. We can pretty much keep the NK blocked, hopefully, so we can spend the rest of our time trying to find Scum. A cop helps that, somebody who tunnels another player doesn't as much. And, with NK blocked, we trade a Town for Scum. Thats a bad deal for Scum, not Town. But a Cop for Scum is a very bad idea. You may say "Odds are he ain't a cop," but theres a nearly 100% chance of one of you being Scum, the first plan works much more in our favor than Scum's.

[jerubbaal]

It's not logical, you're not looking at the facts. Fact is we win if we lynch scum (SF). Fact is we don't auto win if you lynch me first and then SF. Fact is there is no chance of a PR being in a mini-normal. Think, if we have 3 confirmed townies, a supressed nightkill, and 2 scum, town wins, period. The value of a cop role in this situation is precisely nothing. Zilch. It's just another reason why Khel wouldn't include it.

You're honestly expecting me to focus on someone other than SF? He is scum, period, I am not lynching anyone else, period.

In case people are having trouble reading: COP DOES NOT HELP A TOWN WIN HERE!!!

I'm not saying that the odds are he isn't a cop, I'm saying he's not. The thought of a scenario with a PR restricted cop, all roleblockers, one of which happens to be a secret miller, is absolutely and certifiably absurd.

[ting =)]

COP DOES NOT HELP A TOWN WIN HERE!!!

Why?

[SensFan]

It's not logical, you're not looking at the facts. Fact is we win if we lynch scum (SF). Fact is we don't auto win if you lynch me first and then SF.

Fact is there is no chance of a PR being in a mini-normal.

Think, if we have 3 confirmed townies, a supressed nightkill, and 2 scum, town wins, period. The value of a cop role in this situation is precisely nothing. Zilch. It's just another reason why Khel wouldn't include it.

You're honestly expecting me to focus on someone other than SF? He is scum, period, I am not lynching anyone else, period.

In case people are having trouble reading: COP DOES NOT HELP A TOWN WIN HERE!!!

I'm not saying that the odds are he isn't a cop, I'm saying he's not. The thought of a scenario with a PR restricted cop, all roleblockers, one of which happens to be a secret miller, is absolutely and certifiably absurd.

Are post restrictions permitted in mini-normal games?

Yes -- a couple of more "interesting" roles are permitted, just keep the fanciness to a minimum and make sure you don't write in a theme to go with your restriction.

Ok, apparently they are permitted

, but I still don't see how such a PR actually functions in this game. The intricacy of the claimed PR certainly doesn't keep the "fanciness to a minimum." Regardless, the odds of a cop being in this game are precisely zero. It's already broken enough, Khel wouldn't completely break it.

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[Cogito Ergo Scum]

There's no possible argument supporting the existence of a PR'd cop in an all-roleblocker setup. It all boils down to that.

[jerubbaal]

You're not reading very well if you just now figured that out, SF.

CES is right, though, there's absolutely no reason for the role you have claimed to exist, at all, in this setup, in a mini-normal. MeMe said to keep the fanciness to a minimum, the PR as claimed does precisely nothing to improve the setup.

@ting - a cop doesn't help because if we lynch right today, we win. We will have 3 confirmed townies, CES, Korts, and myself, the scum can't kill any more, and 2 remaining scum (assuming 3 scum, which is standard for 12 people, 4 is too broken, even in this setup). We can simply systematically lynch the unconfirmeds and scum will never have a majority, even if they're the last two unconfirmeds we lynch.

[SensFan]

You're not reading very well if you just now figured that out, SF.

CES is right, though, there's absolutely no reason for the role you have claimed to exist, at all, in this setup, in a mini-normal. MeMe said to keep the fanciness to a minimum, the PR as claimed does precisely nothing to improve the setup.

@ting - a cop doesn't help because if we lynch right today, we win. We will have 3 confirmed townies, CES, Korts, and myself, the

scum can't kill any more

, and 2 remaining scum (assuming 3 scum, which is standard for 12 people, 4 is too broken, even in this setup). We can simply systematically lynch the unconfirmeds and scum will never have a majority, even if they're the last two unconfirmeds we lynch.

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[jerubbaal]

Yes, it is true. Think about it, I'm sure you'll figure it out. Or maybe not, but trust me on this one. If there are two scum left, they can't kill.

[Khelvaster]

Discussion's picking up, so I'm not deadlining. This game hasn't stalled yet IMO

[Joubert]

Dang, Jerubbaal knows so much about the game, he looks even scummier because of that...
Confirmed Townies? What's that? The only "confirmed" Townies I know are dead. Cold dead...
Change your disc, Jerubbaal...