Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[The Fonz]

I've been tossing up the cases. I don't want to post some half-baked idea.

Excuse my incredulity, but how is that not lurking? Following the thread, but not posting, lest your ideas be flawed? Doesn't even a 'half-baked' idea give other players some insight into your thought process?

[MadCrawdad]

@farside

The quotes below show that this is the second time in two days that you've had a vote firmly parked on someone, only to go bounding off after another based on a single comment that doesn't seem to sit right with you...

I'm not sure what to think. The game has gone a bit slow at this point and time. I think Justin had some good points, but I'm not as sure as before especially when people vote and just agree with another person so there vote looks good.

Unvote
vote: MelodyMan23

His vote and comment was just a little to sly for my taste.

dahill really screwed up my thought process with that comment. I doubt that is a newbie mistake too. I sense it is someone trying to look town that is scum. I still think spacecase needs to be looked at, however this lastest comment from dahill does not sit well at all.

unvote: vote: dahill

Also noted that he/she replaced Melody Man who I felt suspicious of when he changed his vote and Wesq who was also looking scummie in the beginning.

Now what really intrigues me about the 2nd more recent post above, is that when you switched to dahill, that you mentioned you were suspicious of Melody Man, seemingly implying that you've been suspicious of dahill (and his predecessors) all along.... If you were really so suspicious, why did you forget about them completely on Day 3, until now?

The quotes below show that Spacecase and Oman were your only candidates for scum on Day 3, and that dahill/Melody Man had fallen off your radar completely. So why the need to remind everyone that you previously mentioned Melody Man as scum?

Well I'm still thinking Spacecase for a couple of reason. 1) I don't care for his reasoning. 2) when I pointed out my case against him he ignored it and asked about Melody Man instead. Now he seems to think his answer is sufficiate, but a lot of what he says is like he is thinking too hard on what to say.
Now as for who else I feel is scummie I would say Oman just because I've never really seen him agree with people. When he agreed with me about Spacecase not being a quick lynch it surprised me (past games just made me feel like he's using what someone else said to look good). Most of my case is based on gut more then anything I found. But he is someone I have in mind because of some of his actions.

No, boredom.

QFT.
I've read through. I stated my second option. I'm not sure what else you want me to say. No one really stands out as scum and at this point I think knowing for sure Spacecases alignment may help out for the next day. I'm sure this will be crap reasoning to some, but look at it this way. If spacecase is scum we should look at who held up the wagon and was trying to get someone else to look scummie. If spacecase is not scum we look at everyone who jumped on the wagon early and easily. Some people may not like my idea, but really where have we really gotten on day 2 thus far that hasn't been said to death?

[Oman]

I've been tossing up the cases. I don't want to post some half-baked idea.

Excuse my incredulity, but how is that not lurking? Following the thread, but not posting, lest your ideas be flawed? Doesn't even a 'half-baked' idea give other players some insight into your thought process?[/qute]

How ironic.

[vollkan]

@Vollkan: I do think you're skewing the situation slightly. Lynches tend to happen (in theory) in two steps. First, people make accusations/cases on other players, and vote for who they think is scummy. Then, the town as a whole has to analyze the various targets and collectively pick one. One player cannot lynch anyone alone. Now I'm not a fan of dahill's recent play either, but after expressing your choice there does come a time when in order to lynch someone the town must start agreeing. I would have mentioned that this is what I was doing and repeated that player A is still my first choice but that I'd be willing to lynch player B before moving the vote, but every day in mafia there's someone who isn't getting their first choice lynched.

As Fonz said, he was at L-1. It doesn't exactly meet the scenario of an untenable lynch.

But, even if it was unpopular, if you think someone is scum and there is no imminent peril of deadline, it doesn't make sense to go after somebody else, unless you are insincere in your scumhunting.

Now what really intrigues me about the 2nd more recent post above, is that when you switched to dahill, that you mentioned you were suspicious of Melody Man, seemingly implying that you've been suspicious of dahill (and his predecessors) all along.... If you were really so suspicious, why did you forget about them completely on Day 3, until now?

:goodposting:

So why the need to remind everyone that you previously mentioned Melody Man as scum?

There is considerable "comfort" (for want of a better word) in relying on past suspicions as a crutch. It makes one

look

like one is more consistent. Usually this works, but farside didn't return to dahill, which begs the question as to why.

[Rigel]

I'm not really sure what to say at this point. I was under the impression before I left for vacation that the Spacecase case was a done deal. Clearly, I was wrong. I'm still in favor of a Spacecase lynch--the lack of voters on his wagon isn't an automatic towntell for me; it makes me think more of the opposite, in fact. I don't like the way in which the wagon slowed down, especially this post of Oman's.

Wagon slowing.

Makes me wonder.

I might unvote.

It just doesn't sit right with me. What he is suggesting is clear: the slowing wagon makes him think that Spacecase is town and so he might unvote. But he never comes out and says this. Instead, he makes a series of three vague statements that imply this to make the town follow the train of thought. That seems much more scummy than the slowing of the wagon in general.

FOS: Oman

As for the Spacecase wagon in general, I think that the best statement regarding it thus far has been made by Farside:

No, boredom.

QFT.
I've read through. I stated my second option. I'm not sure what else you want me to say.

No one really stands out as scum and at this point I think knowing for sure Spacecase's alignment may help out for the next day. I'm sure this will be crap reasoning to some, but look at it this way. If spacecase is scum we should look at who held up the wagon and was trying to get someone else to look scummie. If spacecase is not scum we look at everyone who jumped on the wagon early and easily.

Some people may not like my idea, but really where have we really gotten on day 2 thus far that hasn't been said to death?

(Bolding is mine)

In all honesty, we're not going to get any guarantees at this point in the game. If there was another cop, they'd have counter-claimed by now. So all we have to go on alignment-wise is who dies and whatever Cypher says. So why are we dilly-dallying over who dies? Obviously, the object is to get rid of scum, but we're not at LoL yet. There are still 9 or 10 townies left in the game. If getting rid of one townie helps us to find one or more scum, we're still coming out ahead.

---

I really don't like the Phate wagon in general. Granted, he wasn't really posting much, but I don't really see how that's inherently scummy. Anti-town, certainly, but not automatically scummy. However, people have jumped on the wagon...and by people, I suspect scum.

---

I still don't trust LG. I know there is a confirmed cop's innocent on him, but we also have a Godfather in this game. I've pointed out a few scummy things that LG has done throughout the game, and I don't feel as if he's helping town all that much. After all, he's the first to cast suspicion on Phate, leading to the Phate-wagon that breaks up the Spacecase-wagon. He's also been pushing some other theories on the town, such as the Justin Playfair-as-mastermind theory back on Day 2.

In looking at some of LG's posts regarding Spacecase's Vanilla claim, I am increasingly worried about his potential Godfather status. As soon as Spacecase claims, LG is adamantly and irrationally convinced of his innocence. If Spacecase is lynched and found to be scum, I think that LG may be our Godfather. It's not a for sure statement and I'm definitely not in favor of immediately pushing for his lynch on Day 4. But it'll be something to think about, and all the more reason why we should lynch Spacecase.

---

Spacecase, I don't believe that you ever addressed this question I posed to you on the 21st.

Spacecase, I would like you to answer me one question: aside from the "because I am town" argument, can you give me any solid reason why I should be voting for someone else at this given moment? Or better yet, who do you think is scummy? All your posts today have been about your reason for voting Kab, and I already think that's scummy. But you haven't done anything but defend yourself, and I want to know if you have any actual opinions regarding the game thus far.

As long as you're still alive, could you do me a favor and address that now?

---

Honestly, at this point, the only person that I could justify voting for other than Spacecase is Dahill. His lack of ability to help the town, along with the similar lack of assistance from his predecessors, is enough to make me almost believe that he's got a post restriction that keeps him from posting anything helpful. However, this is pretty much the only place that I'm likely to go from a Spacecase lynch at the moment.

After all, this is the person who jumped over to the Phate wagon just because two other people jumped over to it, one of whom is the "confirmed townie" LG. Dahill and his predecessors don't appear to be playing from a very enlightened perspective; i.e: they're playing like newbie scum or really bad newbie town.

---

In the end, I guess what I basically want to say is that we should, and likely need to lynch Spacecase today. Regardless of whether or not you believe he is scum. Spacecase's lynch will do two things. It will reveal his alignment, allowing us to further study his lynch in terms of that, and will progress us to Night, where Cypher can investigate someone else. Yes, it will also allow scum and the possible SK to act, but we've still got a lot of townies out there. I think we can make a potentially dangerous strategic play for one night.

[dahill1]

rigel,
first of all have you read in to the case against Phate? because it's more than just him not posting that often. and again, i keep saying this but everyone seems to ignore it, i did not vote for Phate just because 2 other people voted for him! that is one of my very minor reasons, and again it was more because of Cipher than because of LTG as i said before. i'm still in support of a SC lynch, but as i have stated, it did not appear like it was going to happen to me, so i switched to Phate

[Shteven]

As Fonz said, he was at L-1. It doesn't exactly meet the scenario of an untenable lynch.

You're right about this. Its stalling could understandably be frustrating, but it certainly wasn't dismantled and was (is) still a likely lynch.

Wagon slowing.

Makes me wonder.

I might unvote.

It just doesn't sit right with me. What he is suggesting is clear: the slowing wagon makes him think that Spacecase is town and so he might unvote. But he never comes out and says this. Instead, he makes a series of three vague statements that imply this to make the town follow the train of thought. That seems much more scummy than the slowing of the wagon in general. FOS: Oman

Actually he explicitly said it was 'boredom' and not that he felt spacecase was any less scummy. I asked him about it earlier, and I agree, it's not something I agree with Oman on.

Oman: Fonz made a very valid point in post 700, and you responded only with "how ironic"...maybe You'd care to say something in your defense? Granted fonz does tend to be more reactive than proactive in this game, but that doesn't give you a free pass about it. He's certainly posting a lot more than you have been lately.

And finally...How can people read Rigel's last post and not be voting Spacecase? It's about that time...

[dahill1]

i would vote SC but only if i know he's definitely going to be lynched
also, i'd probably be pegged as wishy washy and scummy if i switched my vote now

[Cipher]

The best way to get SC lynched would be to vote for him and encourage others to do the same.

[Oman]

the slowing wagon makes him think that Spacecase is town and so he might unvote. But he never comes out and says this.

Meh. I assumed you guys were smart enough to realise that I don't really unvote people I think are scum.

[-TinVision-]

Eighth Vote Count of the Day

Spacecase - 4 (Shteven, Rigel, Oman, TheFonz)

Phate - 3 (Cipher, LaptopGun, dahill1)

dahill1 - 2 (farside22, Phate )

Not voting - 4 (Spacecase, LoudmouthLee, vollkan, MadCrawdad)

With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

LoudmouthLee replaces Perfectiondoesnotexist

[LoudmouthLee]

Perfection obviously did not exist here.

I'm gonna read this now, and do a PBPA while I read. Please forgive me if I hit on points that have already been fleshed out or whatnot.

Please forgive me if I'm a little rusty. We'll see how this shakes.

[LoudmouthLee]

Just a note, and my first double post (of many)...

-Tin-, our mod, has decided to not distinguish between SK kills and Mafia kills. This makes life a bit more difficult. Keep that in mind as we continue (if that has not already been discussed)

[LoudmouthLee]

FoS: Jesse Gunn / Cipher and Farside

They were both random voting a known scum D1 (and Page 1, for that matter.) Let's see if any of them moved their vote after the bandwagon began rolling.

[LoudmouthLee]

FOS: Justin Playfair

For being extremely analytical on day 1.

I realize that Jesse has been replaced, but holy cow. This seems incredibly offputting. I am unsure if this is a noob move or a noob scum move.

[LoudmouthLee]

Confirm Vote: Jesse Gunn

.

Because...

being extremely analytical on day 1.

...isn't a sign of scum, it's a sign of good play. Being analytical at any stage of the game is a good sign, the earlier the better.

QFT. I liked the break down that justinfairplay gave. It was insightful and useful. FOS'ing someone for being too analytical is scummie.

unvote: Vote: Jesse Gunn

and farside was the first person to hop off of known scum wagon. FYI.

[LoudmouthLee]

Damn you suspended site page! Had a whole response typed up, and lost it. Oh well, I'll just say this. I'm not going to roleclaim on day 1, but I will if it's a choice between mafia and something else. But, I'm voting Six Aces because he's scum. If you don't believe me then lynch me, but you'll be sorry.

However, if you want to take a chance on taking out a mafia then let's all look into Six Aces. I realize I probably screwed my chances of making it past tonight, but I'll chalk it up to my inexperience at this site.

WOW!

Vote: Cipher

Sorry to punish you for your replacee's poor acts, but this is ridiculous.

This is screaming scum or cop. More scum.

[LoudmouthLee]

This sucks. I investigated Peers.

(shiver)

[LoudmouthLee]

I usually in other games have stated that a person hasn't had a counter claim (which in retrospect was stupid as there is a possiblity of more then one cop) so therefore Jesse claim seemed valid. When you stated about people not counter claiming I agreed because Six Aces already claimed cop and no other person should claim at that point since one was obviously lying.

Even if it wasn't obvious to you that one of them was lying, wouldn't you agree, that any counter claim (assuming it was legit) on Day 1 could ultimately prove disatrous for the town?

@ farside22

I posted this and you kind of zipped past it. Granted it may not have been completely clear that I was asking it of you, so would you mind touching on it now? Thanks.

Sorry about that. Well in this set up yes. In most set ups no. Usually in games I've been in there is only one cop. If someone is stupid enough to counter claim that means that one person is scum and the other is the cop. After six Aces claimed doctor there was no need to counter claim because between Jess and Six someone was obviously lying. Six tried to lie in order to make people wonder about Jess, but he could have done it to try and flush out the real doctor which is why I was quick to agree with Justin on no one else claiming. False claiming hurts scum more in my opinion, I wanted to see if someone would think to take that bait, but once again I forgot there is a possiblity of more then one cop. So yeah I screwed up with that thought.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!

there is the innate possibility that BOTH are scum. If you remember, the scum players know who the other scum are. It's called the "Clearing Play" and it's a terrible play. It does happen insanely often, though, and keeping that in mind, it's dangerous.

"Take the bait" is more of a "I fucked up and someone called me on it."

[LoudmouthLee]

Justin Playfair's first target, day 2, was Farside. He's a known cop.

[LoudmouthLee]

Okay, I've read enough for now to get some feelings:

unvote: Cipher, but really large FoS

. I'm completely unsure of how I feel about the cop claim. He only "claimed cop" after everyone got on him for making a soft claim.

I really, really dislike farside. I think HE is the correct lynch of today. See above.

Vote: Farside

[Oman]

SO you read the bit where Cipher is the cop right?

Anyway, good to see you in game again.

[LoudmouthLee]

I read the bit where Cipher softclaimed cop and than probably sold out his partner to "become" cop.

[Rigel]

Okay, well then, did you read the part where I said that whether or not Spacecase is scum, he should be lynched today regardless? I don't think that going out on a limb and casting a single vote on Farside is very pro-town at this point.

[LaptopGun]

Welcome to the game LML.

Rigel, I had the same reaction when Kab claimed. I wasn't sure he was town and thought it very well could have been scummy, but I thought it was more likely we had a mislynch on our hands. Which ialso s how I thought the SC wagon was going.