Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured - Game over!

[PJ.]

Pfft, ok, TS or Phate is probably scum because they have added absolutely nothing to the thread and by law of probabilities one of them is scum. Xyzzy is a lurker but has added things to the thread, and has acted generally protown.

Will claim if I get another vote.

TS, scumputer is the stupidest and most illconceived concept ever.

[Snaps_the_Pirate]

Again, two scum on Eteocles/DS. Again I doubt there is a third scum there.

That there are not more then two scum on each bandwagon is a very bold assumption. TS has based her entire argument off that assumption. While I agree with her conclusion, I think her method is potentially dangerous.

TS, why do you think that we would have no more than two scum on that first wagon?

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, why do you think that we would have no more than two scum on that first wagon?

I believe that scum divides itself rather evenly across wagons, and off-wagon votes.

[Kison]

Kison is on page 25.

[Rishi]

TS, why do you think that we would have no more than two scum on that first wagon?

I believe that scum divides itself rather evenly across wagons, and off-wagon votes.

I think smart scum does this. We're assuming that scum is playing intelligently.

[Toaster Strudel]

Smart scum does this. You don't think I've been scum enough to know?

[Rishi]

Smart scum does this. You don't think I've been scum enough to know?

I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, you're probably right, since most of the players in this game are fairly experienced. But, we should always allow for the possibility of dumb scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm not worried. Smart scum does it, dumb scum does it. Instinct. Reflex.

[Bookitty]

For the record, I've played with both Toaster Strudel and Vollkan.

Their methods are very different from each other and from mine, but I will attest to the fact that both of them catch scum with their methods. I tend to understand Vollkan's method better, and thus it's more useful to me, but both methods catch scum.

[Kison]

I've had less time than anticipated. I'm close to up-to-date with the game. However, I noticed my predecessor roleclaimed cop, and would like to inform you all that that is indeed correct. My results so far have all come up No Result :

1) Boolkitty -> No Result
2) Xyzzy -> No Result
3) Rishi -> No Result

I've been taking notes on players. Panzer has been standing out as a bit suspicious, though I'm not going to hold myself to that until I'm finished reading the game, at which point I'll let you all know my finalized thoughts.

Much <3,

Kison

[Phate]

Considering that the Scumputer output has yourself, Panzer and Xyzzy as scumbags, I'd like you to explain the above further.

I realize you are attacking Snaps. But who are you defending? Are you defending Xyzzy, or Panzer - even if the defense is indirect, I'd like an answer.

First, just like to say that the first half of that was the most pretentious and least deserving sentence I've heard since I played with Ryan.

Second, I'm not defending anyone, directly or indirectly.

[Kison]

Additionally, I think it's interesting that Antithesis wasn't nightkilled, but two of the people Rishi said he believed were solidly town were.

Perhaps the two scumgroups each thought that the other was going to target the cop, and didn't want to waste their kill on someone the other scum would target anyway.

Not necessarily. Remember I(presumably) was roleblocked. Might as well roleblock someone you're next to certain has a role, and risk using your kill on someone who might not have one. It guarantees 100% efficiency with the roleblock(assuming target is not killed).

I'm certain Antithesis is town; fairly sure (but not certain) that Vollkan and Panzerjager are, as well.

Why are you pretty sure about Vollkan and PanzerJager?

Anyone else find it interesting that Bookitty is defending vollkan, considering they are the two people who have been on every single lynch so far?

I find it odd, but not for this reason. Why do you find their presence on both lynches to be bothersome? We've seen an abundance of slacking with some players(at least I seem to have noticed it), so this seems a tad irrelevant to me.

Confirm Vote:Mills

with a good ol'

FoS:Hasdgfas

The last half page struck as huge distancing about non-consequental bullshit.

How can you call it distancing if you don't even know one is scum in the first place?

I'm pretty positive Rishi is town so that's out. Vollkan is more then not town. I'm suspicious of BooKitty, but not enough to really lynch her.

Why? Why? Why?

CKD, overdefensiveness is exetremely scummy, because it means your guilty of something.

Horrible logic. Overdefensiveness is not only not scummy, but it doesn't mean what you claim it does. I've been overdefensive town. I've seen plenty others play overdefensive town. And I've never seen a correlation between defensiveness and alignment. It's the points one makes when defending themselves that matter, and I don't think you exactly made that the highlight of your analysis.

wow...well..yeah..Mills really fucked us. Unvote, Vote:CKD deliberately ignoring one game for others means you are (A) scum or (B) need to be replaced.

Umm. Hold on, here. He gives us two possibilities :

1) Scum
2) Needs to be replaced

So how do you decide which is the case? Voting him if he "needs to be replaced" is not helping speed that process up.

Well switch your vote to OGML cause anyone who gives up is stupid or scum.

Playing the "I give up" card doesn't imply scum to me. It's a bad play IMO, but I've seen it done countless times by scum & town.

I totally misread Cows post. I apoligize. I actually think at this point I'm gonna have to

Unvote, Vote:Snaps

I think this is where my feelings should be. OGML kinda seems somewhat sincere in his efforts.

I, too, noticed Panzer talk about the 2 scumgroup existence D1, primarily because by the time I was reading up, I had come to the same conclusion by noticing the differing color schemes in the death list. Struck me as somewhat odd that he'd state such with, presumably, no reason to come to any kind of conclusion about the setup so early on.

I also don't get what you were going on about with the Serial Killer accusation.

Vote : Panzerjager

My notes on Xyzzy, Phate, and Liamcool/Boolkitty are slim at best. I've liked Snap's play more than most. I don't think his pressure of lurkers is necessarily bad. Blindly lynching lurkers, however,

would

. But several other points he's brought up, primarily validly refuting a lot of Panzer's bizarre logic, has him sitting a bit better with me.

[PJ.]

Can I claim Yet?

[Toaster Strudel]

Entertain us please.

[Kison]

Somehow I failed to comment on one of the quotes I presented...

I totally misread Cows post. I apoligize. I actually think at this point I'm gonna have to

Unvote, Vote:Snaps

I think this is where my feelings should be. OGML kinda seems somewhat sincere in his efforts.

I don't see the cause of the sudden change of heart. Just a few posts prior you were saying that one of the players(hasdsfsdfkfs I think?) should swap votes to OhGODMyLIFE, then suddenly changed your mind. Why?

[xyzzy]

A Panzer claim would be appropriate at this stage. Go ahead.

[PJ.]

Two-shot Vig, My first shot was on CKD I kinda hinted towards that earlier when I told rishi that I had a good feeling the vig killed CKD and is also the reason I strongly am considering BooKitty as scum because she got the kills pretty much right on the nose. Role information and gut feeling is why I suspected her.


Gut and small meta-reasons is why I believe Xyzzy to be more town then the other 2 lurkers. And Probablity is why i think one of the 2 is scum.

And to the whole it defeats my Snaps arguement, It doesn't because if I point fingers at 6 lurkers and 1 is scum, does that mean I'm scumhunting? No, it means I'm riding the probablities that a false assumption maybe be correct. When you base all your action on that, yes you are scummy because the changes of lynching scum is like..25-33% right now I believe it is somewhere around 50%.

I still think Snaps is our best lynch and aapparently I'm shooting tonight cause I die so they'll have to choose whether or not to block be or Kison. Kison would you mind reinvestigating Bookitty or investigating TS/Phate and I'll shoot the same person so we get a result or a kill on that person?

[PJ.]

Because I misread his post you tard

[Kison]

I

know

you said you misread

Cow's

post, but Cow is not OGML(which is who you unvoted), and I'm not seeing how his posts around that time really would have changed your mind. That's what is not adding up for me. Maybe you could point out what I'm missing. Maybe you could just call me a tard. I dunno, whichever makes you feel better bout yourself, but I replaced in to help move this game along at the mod's request, not get berated for asking a couple of questions, so cut me some slack, ya panzy biotch.

[PJ.]

Well unvote me cause i'm vg while you're at it

[Kison]

vg? False claim. Lynch all liars. 10-4, over and out.

[Kison]

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Unvote

[vollkan]

I am commencing a reread of all players and will post an updated scumdar shortly.

[Bookitty]

Okay, I located the post that gave me the impression that Panzer was town:

Okay before I adovacate the lynch of egruntz with a case I want to indulge in some kill speculation. I think that a vig/sk killed CKD and that there are 2 mafia groups, Xyl's thinking that Fonz was a threat and the other group thinking Xyl was a threat.

My second guess. We have a single, larger scumgroup and an SK and a Vig. Scum still shooting Fonz, Vig Shooting CKD and SK hitting Xyl due to Sk think Xyl is a threat. Do not take either of these as abosolute, they are simply my opinions on the matter. I don't think there should be a huge arguement about this, just throwing my opinions out there.

Egruntz should be lynched. Period. He is currently flailing and Xyl early actions seem to as if Xyl was trying to almost bus Egruntz.*refraining from directing the vig due to that being scummy*

That's a direct attack on members of two different scum groups, but I didn't know there were two scum groups at the time. I didn't pay that much attention to his hypothesis about the two scumgroups, because at the time I was also arguing that Xylthixlm had weird reactions to Egruntz and I thought they were on the same scumteam. I was glad Panzerjager was supporting that idea and didn't think much more about it.

However, it's also a problem because it absolutely refutes Panzer's attack on me for assuming who killed who. He posted this well before I did any hypothesising, and then savagely attacked me for saying basically what he'd said well before. I'm not sure if I was influenced by his post, but certainly I had read it.

Panzer first attacked me for Antithesis's "no result" on me, saying it was certain I was the Godfather (which most people would realise is not the case-- it indicates a roleblocker, which he conceded); then jumped on me because I'd assessed the situation basically as he himself had done previously. Let me look at his argument there:

By your logic you saying that OGML-Egruntz- ___ is a group but the only thing stopping you is that you are set on thinking that they shot Xyl. 3 kills means they could have shot Fonz. The only reason you wouldn't consider this is due to you knowing one of the night kills.

Since your accusing OGML if he is indeed scum he is I believe he is of the XYL scum group. I believe, you are in the Egruntz group and you are just trying to get OGML lynched regardless of his alignment. which is how you'd know your group killed Xyl and trying to pin it on OGML. It would be safe to bus Egruntz because it makes it easier to stay at 2 and you'd be tied with xyl due to dying,

And my response still stands:

I made my case on OGML without mentioning my WIFOM thoughts about The Fonz's nightkill. I don't know who killed The Fonz. I don't see a reason for a vig to do so, but I was suspicious he was scum with Xyl, as I stated previously, so I was wrong about that. I wasn't considering two scum groups at the time because there hadn't been any reason to do so. And additionally, I don't know how you can know it's two groups of three, rather than two groups of two... why are you assuming that?

Your logic is escaping me. According to you, I'm in egruntz's scumgroup, and ... so I accused him of being scum with Xyl, and pushed for his lynch, so I could bus him? WHY would I do that as scum? Would I WANT to even the odds for the other scumteam? How would that be helpful to my team in the least?

Why would scum bus one of their own when there's another scumteam in the equation? What is the advantage to doing so at this point, in your view?

And then after a bit more argument Panzerjager states, "Upon further review, I am defeated".

So he already admitted this argument against me wasn't viable. But now he's resurrecting it.

I'm leaning more toward SK than vig for Panzer, but either way, he's not the lynch for today, since I don't think he's a member of either of the two known scum groups.

unvote

[Rishi]

I'm leaning more toward SK than vig for Panzer, but either way, he's not the lynch for today, since I don't think he's a member of either of the two known scum groups.

But why wouldn't he kill every night if he was a serial killer? It doesn't make sense. I know I stated several times that I thought there was a one-shot vig in this game. A two-shot vig is not really a stretch.

Kison is acting a little aggressive for my tastes. I still believe Antithesis' original claim though, so I guess there's not much to do about that.