Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[Pink Puppy]

Which reminds me, why has no-one else commented on the timing of Xreyox backing out? When FoO-scum died. Coincidence?

BM

reyo asked to be replaced during the end of last day. Not during the night. Imat seems to be found during the night as CKD posted when replacement was found.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I did a meta on reyo. He's still playing in some mish-mash game, but did back out of another mini at the same time with the same excuse he gave here -- real life problems. So... yeah, it could be a coincidence.

[Battle Mage]

Which reminds me, why has no-one else commented on the timing of Xreyox backing out? When FoO-scum died. Coincidence?

BM

reyo asked to be replaced during the end of last day. Not during the night. Imat seems to be found during the night as CKD posted when replacement was found.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I did a meta on reyo. He's still playing in some mish-mash game, but did back out of another mini at the same time with the same excuse he gave here -- real life problems. So... yeah, it could be a coincidence.

Could be, but think about it. His buddy is about to be lynched, and i'm attacking him hard. What a perfect time to decide to bail!

Anyway, Xreyox was scummy enough alone to be lynched. This is further suggestive information against him.

BM

[Battle Mage]

And also, what Mod replaces someone during the night, when its possible that they could be NKed immediately. In normal circumstances, i expect theyd be brought in at the start of day if needed, unless ofc the role had a night choice, or CKD was desperate to avoid letting info slip.

BM

[Xtoxm]

I've replaced into games before where the mod has extended night to replace my vanilla to prevent giving out information.

I don't likw the way you are stretching these reasons.

[Pink Puppy]

Look, I still think reyo/imat is scum from the stuff BM posted yesterday, but I don't want to make a mistake, so I gotta put this out there:

BM...Got anything useful?

Erm not as such. The Cop-claim was a gambit, which didnt really work, although in a sense it did...

Although i am a little confused. Why would the scum, with 3 claimed power roles, decide to NK someone completely different? I mean, what circumstance could possibly facilitate that?
A Cop, Vig and Doc are a pretty strong set, and even with 1 of those claims as bogus, its still hard to see neither of the other two being killed. Now Xtoxm is totally confirmed, and i know im town. That leaves Oman, who im slightly more suspicious of now. Its possible that he chose to kill someone else, because killing a power role would spark some doubt about his claim.

THAT IS unless

someone hadnt read the game

.

I'm looking at Imat here, who's first post of the game is not overly-convincing.

Vote: Imat

I think we've found our last mafia member.

BM

Again, I ask for a day, and you give me nothing. I thank you BM for your incredible Hunting prowess. Unfortunately you failed to notice one minor detail. Rey asked to be replaced during the night. So, even if Rey/I had a night ability, Rey had the chance to give any choice before leaving.

So saying I'm Scum because there weren't two kills and I hadn't read yet is ridiculous, much worse than your usual ability.

I'll continue a certain line of thought later, after I finish reading, to make sure I get all of the information at my disposal correct.

Does anyone think this underlined part demonstrates a lack of knowledge of NK's?

[Norinel]

It's a slip, and it's tricky to fake a slip like that, but it's also possible that Imat was scum and hadn't looked over Day 2 to see what was up with the vigkills. And he did manage to switch from that position to "Its all well and good that 2 groups happened to target the same person, but what were the odds of that." by his next post without that mistake being brought up or prompted.

And as I said before, I can see BM as reaching, but if he's scum, what kind of scum is he? Mafia and CR can't afford to stick their neck out this far just to maybe get one mislynch (Plus the CR probably has a cultist to make the sacrifice for him), and there's no way cult would've recruited a claimed cop last night when they could probably come up with better targets. He hadn't even been under enough pressure to merit a desperation play.

The Cop-claim was a gambit to get me NKed. But the fact that the scum didnt know this, concerns me as to why i wasnt killed, or Oman wasnt killed.

I'd guess that either the scum didn't trust the claims that were out there or they didn't feel threatened by the town power roles. (Or they're trying to confuse us, which gets WIFOMy) The two unconfirmable claims were from two of the scummier players, and two of the people who'd talked the most about fakeclaiming in this setup, after all. Or maybe the scum's a GF, and knows that the cop and/or vig can't directly harm them.

[dahen]

I haven't checked back for connections, but I've stared at these last pages trying to find out what's going on.

PP; You say you think FoO's partner is Reyo/Imat, based on what you remember but haven't checked. Would you mind checking and posting something convincing?

I'm suspicious of BM again. Fakeclaiming cop on his hammer post to gain another night.

Yes, but on the other hand. But fake-claiming on hammer posts make more sense than true-claiming in that situation. As scum there is no reason he would fake-claim and then take back the claim tonight if not for drawing a potential doc-protect, but since mafia shot at GW anyway, that doesn't make sense.

As much as I dislike the logic of some of BM's post, this fake-claim was actually quite townish.

Imat: Stop focusing on BM. I agree with some of what you are saying, but try to re-read and post thoughts on all players, please.

Oman: Why are you so sure of Imat? All your posts are so short that you don't seam to play to convince other players. I think that's a bit sad.

BM: You say that there are facts against Reyo. That would be really easy if that was correct. There are no facts. If you want to scream to put pressure on people, then fine, but why spend your energy on Xtoxm?

BM: Explain why you say the last goon must be Reyo/Imat or Oman? Why do you include Oman, who you think is sooo pro-town, but don't include for instance me?

PP: Do you think BM and Reyo/Imat are both town?

Norinel: You say that BM tries to get a quick lynch since there is "a lot of stuff anyway" against Reyo. What exactly is the stuff you refer do?

BM: Why on earth would you try to get night-killed? Who's ass do you think you would be saving?

Could be, but think about it. His buddy is about to be lynched, and i'm attacking him hard. What a perfect time to decide to bail!

I don't agree with this at all. If anything encourages me to continue, it's when I'm under pressure. Why do you play mafia if you don't like that part.

[elvis_knits]

^^^^^This guy is my prime suspect for last night's cult recruit

[Pink Puppy]

So sorry. Please delete that person... Pretend that I said it.

[dahen]

PP, I asked you two questions. Would you like to answer them?

[Battle Mage]

So sorry. Please delete that person... Pretend that I said it.

lol Alts.

Oh and Dahen, i'll respond to your comments later. But, a bit of advice in the meantime- try reading the game more thoroughly. Some of the questions you've asked have already been answered. Answering them would be even more patronising than pointing this out.

BM

[Pink Puppy]

For Dahen, who can't be bothered to select reyo's posts and reread them:

Not too sure about Friend of old though, the timing for the vote and unvote when the wagon wasn't going anywhere is a bit suspicious. I'll decide after his response on this.

Fos : Friend of Old

Your voting pattern in scummy. Saying no one is using any logic in the game and therefore not adding anything to the discussion is a scummy way to hide. You are making yourself hard to be read. Do you realize that its already past noon and what you've been doing is jumping onto wagons without adding sound reasons?

FOD: I'm afraid I'll have to say that you're close to useless if all you do is jumping onto wagons to pressure people without adding extra content to the discussion.

OK FOD, I'm not buying your reasons behind your behaviour.

Firstly, as toshiro has said, 9 pages and you couldn't find anything useful to comment on is ridiculous.

secondly, think about it. If everyone follow what you're doing, we'll all be sitting around, waiting for a wagon to show up. You're voting purely for the sake of bandwagoning.

Thirdly, you are what I considered as active-lurking, posting enough just so that no one call you out for lurking, but not contributing to the discussion.

In addition to that you are saying none of the discussion is useful and that is just not true. We might not have gotten a wealth of information from it but its obvious better than nothing. You currently struck me as a scum trying to dampen down the discussion or a very bad town who doesn't know how to play.

And what do you mean by genuine scumminess? If you're waiting for someone to yell out" I'm scum, vote meeeee!!!", then I guess you'll have to play till you're REALLY OLD to see that.

FOO just started to get more active and I made an fos against him on the same post I vote GS. I think that was all I need to get him posting.

Since I've fos GS before I placed my vote on him which didn't do anything and the fact that the wagon is building up, I believed my vote best go to him.

I usually fos people first and wait to see if I could get the answer I want before voting them. It let other people to know where I'm going at the same time as well which I think should be a bad thing. I find people who go "Wah... This is a scumtell! Vote: You straight away " quite scummy, so I don't do it usually.

FOO: Thanks for the effort. It is going to take me some time to digest your post though. But before I'm off, just wanna point out that GW's posts have constantly been sending me scummy vibes. I've tried re-re-rereading his posts numerous times but I couldn't nail down whats so scummy. After spending an hour or so just reading his 10 odd posts, I realized that it was his avatar (not joking). His posts don't alarm me when I'm not looking at it. It really creeped me out like hell, but its probably my brain messing up (as usual). gah....

Fos: FOO

for this

I'll be glad to be rid of you no matter the outcome.

Unvote, Vote: OMG

FOO: I personally think oman is getting protown for what he has suggested lately.

#449 and #472

GW:

Why is Foo scum and why is pinkpuppy town?

I'm not sure about FoO. His posts.... I'd say they're well "crafted".... Its a feeling and i don't have anything that is a good indication of he is scum. Its like when you say "hm.... really?", re-read the post then say"hm... he's probably right"...something like that.
So no, I don't think he is scum at the moment, however i think he should post a more detailed case against oman.

Pink puppy:

I don't feel it that way, I think FoO knows what's going on. His posts are more like a recap of what the town is doing, rather than trying to find scum.

FOO reads the thread, put a case together, place his vote, then thats it. He only comes in onces in a while to stay in the game or when someone questioned him. It seems like he lacks the will to interrogate his suspects and that is strange because it means he didn't care whether his suspects are really scum. His OMGUS vote on OMG yesterday adds to that.

I just wanted OMG out really, his attitude was annoying and he had to use several posts instead of poting just one long one.

Annoying attitude =/= scum
Using several posts instead of one long one =/=scum
Thus your vote is based on OMGUS.

FoO's LoS is rubbish. Basicly, he could have summarized it into:

Town-People who are active.
Scum-People who post little.

He is not trying to catch scum at tall.

I'll grant you it is not the most detailed and most certainly not the most accurate LoS ever made, but don't you think there is a reason that an active person seems more townish than a lurker?

Yes, an active person can seem more townish but that is not the only thing. You seems to look at how much someone posts to determine whether he is town only.

If you were to do an LoS right now, how different would it be, just out of interest?

I don't know tbh. I don't keep a LoS. Even if I do make a list, I don't usually post it unless someone wants one. I always feel like the scum can make use of it.

Okay, I'll admit that I'm not going out of my way to scumhunt right now, but neither are you Reyo, nobody is right now.

I don't think thats true. I've asked questions and I'm waiting for responses. Although the stuffs I've pointed out aren't major scumtells, I believe the answers can move the game forward. "Nobody is scumhunting right now" <-- is not true either.

FoS: FoO

Please note that these posts are in the correct order of oldest first. And note how Reyo foses Foo many times but never votes him.

[dahen]

PP: I am not lazy. I just don't accept the kind of accusations you are making as very convincing. It's possible that you are right about Reyo and it's also possible that I'll think of Reyo the same way as you do, but if I do, it will not be because of the way you try to convince me with just posting quotes.

And you still haven't answered both my questions.

[Pink Puppy]

I am not lazy

I know, you've been such an active part of this game.

The sheer number of times Reyo posts and accuses FoO, yet never votes, is pretty convincing. I'm not going to hold your hand through it any more than I already have. Make up your own mind.

As for your other question -- do I think BM and reyo are town? I think reyo is scum and I think BM is probably town.

[dahen]

PP: I know I kept falling behind in this game. But I also know I spent a lot of time catching up and reading every single post and writing notes. I apologize once again for my previous inactivity. Now, can we leave that part behind?

What troubles me is that you talk to me in a way as if I ask for your help. I don't. I ask for you to describe what you are doing so I know what to think of you. Please always keep that in mind when answering my questions.

The sheer number of times Reyo posts and accuses FoO, yet never votes, is pretty convincing.

This is what I expect you to answer. You could have said this from the beginning. It's much more interesting for me to hear your exact reasoning. I even agree with it.

Now, could you you be as precise when it comes to summarizing your view on Norinel?

[Xtoxm]

Haven't been able to get on for a few days, just posting to let everyone know i'm limited access atm. Don't have time to read back anything right now.

Sorry.

Should be back to normal soon

[curiouskarmadog]

imat will not have internet until the 11th

will be prodding soon (if I have to)

[Xtoxm]

This game is giving me a headache now...I'm thinking BM is probably the best lynch again.

[Oman]

I will lynch imat now. And yes, I am happy lynching someone who isn't here. Cause I was happy lynching him when he WAS here...cause he's scum. This is no pressure vote.

[Xtoxm]

If you are happy to lynch him why aren't you voting for him?

[Xtoxm]

You are all voting him cos you think he's the scum buddy, right? We can't lynch the scum buddy today, or we will probably lose to the cult overnight.

We have to lynch who we think is the cult leader.

[Battle Mage]

its actually better to lynch the mafioso today, given the choice, due to us:

1. having a confirmed protown vig
2. having narrowed the potential recruit field far enough to make the cult a non-threat.

So even if the CR claimed now, its still pretty even money. As the CR isnt likely to claim, we should definitely lynch Imat, and buy ourselves some time.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Imat: Stop focusing on BM. I agree with some of what you are saying, but try to re-read and post thoughts on all players, please.

This should be directed at Xtoxm too apparently.

BM: Explain why you say the last goon must be Reyo/Imat or Oman? Why do you include Oman, who you think is sooo pro-town, but don't include for instance me?

Because the mafia killed GW, and yet we had 3 claimed power roles. Now Xtoxm is confirmed town, and my claim was a gambit anyway. That leaves Oman, who could concievably have chosen to kill someone different, as killing someone who had claimed a power role would shed some doubt on his claim of Doctor. Thats admittedly weak, but its a possibility. The far more likely scenario is that the kill was committed by Imat, who had not read the game, and hadnt seen the claims, and just had to kill someone in a short time-frame.

BM: Why on earth would you try to get night-killed? Who's ass do you think you would be saving?

Xtoxm's, or possibly even Oman's if we are dealing with impatient-scum. My scumdar here hasnt been awesome, and it would be nice to do something pro town victory.

Could be, but think about it. His buddy is about to be lynched, and i'm attacking him hard. What a perfect time to decide to bail!

I don't agree with this at all. If anything encourages me to continue, it's when I'm under pressure. Why do you play mafia if you don't like that part.

I'd wager here that you are in a minority.

BM

[Xtoxm]

BM, if the cult sucessfully recruited last night, which I think likely, then lynching the mafia means the cult win tonight if the sucessfully recruit again.

[Battle Mage]

no, because:

1. the odds of the cult recruiting correctly 3 nights in a row, with half the potential recruits already dead, is infinitely small.

2. You're going to vig either the recruiter or a recruit tonight, arent you?

BM