Dynamite Stick Mafia! GAME OVER

[Claus]

It is dark in here, isn't it?

STRIKE A LIGHT

[Claus]

Ok, I can see much better now.

We get two lynches per day, with simultaneous cardflips. If the scum want to blow themselves on me, please, be my guest.

I say we should have

Vote1: Pickem

and

Vote2: Adel

blow each other out. Seems somehow appropriate.

[Claus]

Its a neutral move from the standpoint of a smart townie - if the entire town (scum have to agree to this too) decide to discuss about the possibilities of who to kill and then make them blow up each other - then me striking or not striking a light has no effect on the game.

No, it

does

affect the game. If you're pressured and scum, you can dynamite one of the most townish players instead of being dynamited by someone scummy. Similarly, if another scum's being pressured, that scum can dynamite you. For the town as a whole, there can only be negative consequences.

As the first person to strike a light, let me say that I was thinking the same thing as Ooba. I did that because I saw it as a neutral move (scum would never explode themselves), and decided to go with the "Is it dark in here?" joke.

LML's and Kuribo's reasons for not striking a light are reactionary and don't really make sense. It seems to me that they are trying to attack ooba more than arguing against "striking a light" itself. For kuribo, I can see it as his playstyle. It does look a little scummy coming from LML though.

Finally, CES is the first to actually give a good reason for not striking lights: It gives cornered scum a chance to choose which townie will die with them when they get voted down. That has convinced me that this is a "bad move", not the nonsense of "OMG it is bad for the town! It is agressive! You are scum!!".

Talking about scum, I'm slightly suspicious of:

- Nightson:
>> His opening post was "I'm up to killing whoever", still he didn't kill me on the spot, like he could have. Being an Yes-man to any kill proposals.

- LML:
>> Attack on Ooba for striking a light. Why ooba and not, say, me?
>> Suggestion that we should lynch the n1 and n2 votees. I'd say that taking the second ranked player from a vote list as the one to be killed is a bad idea:
- Sometimes it becomes the contest between two players, and people voting on player A are actually AGAINST player B dying. (sometimes even vote player A to avoid the death of player B).
- This allows for scum to weight on the death of two people while voting for only one.
>> Empty threat to dynamite ooba "this second", after calling for "town to talk" over and over again.

--- Oh, wait, he did it :-/ cheers for writing a reply WHILE you are reading the thread.

- Adel, Flameaxe:
>> Fully endorsing the "runner up gets blow" idea.

Incidentally, I think having two parallel "votes" (every player "vote1" and "vote2"), would be a better idea. We could tie people more closely with their lynch choices.


I would vote:

Vote1: Nightson

And

Vote2: LML

But it seems that day2 is over already :-/

[Claus]

Adel, I didn't understand one part of your plan. Are you suggest that we normally vote only one player, and then get the #1 votee and the #2 votee to kill each other? Or that each player gets two votes?

Like I said in my last post, I feel that "1 player, 1 vote", and then kill the two top votees is flawed for two simultaneous lynches. If you disagree, I'd like to hear why.

Otherwise, I generally agree with what you propose.

[Claus]

Vote: Yosarian2

- "3 scum" slip
- The heavy attack on lurkers in the beginning of the game

I also find a few players scummy for not putting who they find scummy in the thread while posting and being somewhat active. From the top of my head I can say:

Marmelade, Sarc, Skitzer, Elmo.

I'd like to see these people telling us who they think is scummy.

[Claus]

B) I've never liked it when people ask others to "post who is most scummy." Why? Lots of reasons--- if those people turn up town, it helps absolve blame; It gives the scum an idea of who to bandwagon, and it helps them avoid NK'ing people who are suspicious.

Well. You'll have to deal with it in my case. My scumhunting technique revolves around getting people to tell who they think should be lynched, and noting down the crossreferences.

If you think we shouldn't be pointing fingers, then maybe better not to vote at all, heh?

Yos, Erg0, others: I'll answer your questions later - I just wanted to address this particular point because I found it particularly bizarre.

[Claus]

Claus: Exactally why is a "heavy attack on lurkers" a scumtell?

Because on day 2 (where you attacked lurkers on your post no 1). We can't really know who are the lurkers.

In less than 11 pages we had 9 players dead and 3 days past us by. Townies are blowing up before we wait for everyone to speak. It is ingenuous of you to accuse anyone of not speaking, when the town is not waiting for them to speak in the first place. It is a cheap shot.

If these were normal length days, with normal majority bandwagons, that can be seen a long time going, I would agree with you. A player that sees a bandwagon form and discussions happen without saying anything - possibly lurker scum.

But in this game. No. Are there some scum lurking? Probably. But there are also townies that haven't had the chance to speak yet, because of the short days.


(Now to hunt any more questions directed at me during D3)

[Claus]

because if we just ignore the lurkers and let them lurk like you seem to want to do

Yup. Exactly what I said we should do. Nothing like having a normal day with a normal bandwagon and see who does not react to it. Funny how you react to criticisms of your ideas
by attacking people right back. So did they choose you as the "active scum" this time?

Vote: Yos2

[Claus]

Hmm. A vote count. Might as well post some content.

(sorry town, this game is not particularly inspiring me right now - if there is a spot open, I would like to volunteer for "strike a light police" role)

=======

And I'm not attacking you because you're "disagreeing with me". I gave a pro-town suggestion, and YOU attacked ME for it, remember?

Yup I do. And I still think that the timing and manner of that suggestion seemed off to me. I explained why already.

So you're attacking me because I'm voting you because I thought that your "pro-town suggestion" seemed scummy (also because of the 3 scum slip and gut feeling, but nevermind). Where do we go from here?

======

Commenting on the bandwagons from the vote count (based on each target's isolated posts):

- I find skitzer slightly more scummy then Surye. Can see Skitzer (or Surye) blowing up Yos.
- Not really seeing the case on Elvis.
- I would like to see Sarc voce.
- Not really seeing the case on CES right now.

[Claus]

Yeah; I'm still waiting for Claus to answer my questions and respond to my latest post. I explained why I think he's scummy, ask him to explain himself back on Wednesday, even though he's posted 7 times on other places on the site since then.

You could have asked the mod to prod me also... but nah, you prefer to have the town mislynch, right? I'll finish reading this thread and then reply to your "wednesday questions".

One question from me before I go back to that post: You think I'm scummy. Do you think I'm scummy enough to accept a me-for-you trade? I hear that 1-for-1 trades are good for the town, and there doesn't seems to be anyone else (other than kuribo), thinking that I'm scummy right now. So you would be able to rid the town of a scum they hadn't even noticed yet! How about it?

I have a feeling you won't take up this offer, though.

With the deadline coming up, I'm really starting to wonder if he hopes he can just lay low until someone else blows somebody else up.

Well:
1- The deal is that the top vote getters blow themselves up before deadline, right?
2- You are the number 2 vote getters
3- I think you are scum

So I guess that yes, I'm happy with the current state of affairs. I could, of course, be doing more, but meh.

=========

Oh, PEG has striken a light. PEG, would you let me have the honors instead, I'm not really following this game .

STRIKE A LIGHT

I'm willing to blow up the top vote getter 24 hours before the deadline, or to blow up Yos2 if there is no clear majority. I won't blow up anyone else.

If I survive the day somehow I'd still like to line up for enforcer job tomorrow.

Go Town!

[Claus]

Answering Yos2's "Wednesday post" (reads Thu to me, though - whatever)

but I did NOT attack lukers until there'd been pleanty of time to see who the lurkers were.

I disagree with you. I think we couldn't say for sure who the lurkers were by the time you start pressuring them. And for your "is it bad to discuss pro-town strategy in the beginning of the game?" question, I'd say that discussing strategy that has no immediate benefits for town, and can lead to bad policy lynches is not pro-town at all.

Lynch all lurkers is a generally good strategy, but it is not perfect. I think it fails in the context you presented it.

In other words, you need to explain why you're voting for me, because it seems like an incredibly scummy OMGUS vote from where I'm sitting.

Funny that you say I'm incredibly scummy, but you're not voting for me. Here, I see your incredibly scummy, and I raise you a "Striken light". Your move.

I assume that's the comment you're attacking me over, am I correct? What, exactally, was wrong with that comment? And what was wrong with the so-called "timing and manner" of that comment?

I'm attacking you for this comment yes.
I'm also attacking you for your "three scum" slip.
I'm also attacking you because you are constantly accusing me of being scummy, but have not voted me or done anything similar.

I'm also attacking you because I have this gut feeling that you are scum. You are worrying yourself too much about one little vote from one little townie who is not that active in the game, and is not that great in argumentation or logic. You're trying to paint me as scum to invalidate my argument, but you are not willing to actually vote me, or ask other people whether they think I should be lynched or not. Your attack against me does not feel right.

(Yeah, my vote may be a tiny little bit OMGUS )

Anyway, back to your questioning: regarding the comment above, I think that when you made that comment, on page 2, we didn't have enough information to determine who the lurkers were, and still you were already arguing that lurking was a "Strong Scumtell". Why would town do that? I can't see strong reasons. But I can see a better reason for scum to do that - to lead the town in a string of lurker myslinches, with the occasional bussing or two.

You need to do all of this and explain yourself better, becuase I'm just not believing your claimed motives right now.

Well. You say I'm bluffing when I attack you. I have striken a light, and I'm ready to let you explode me (or to explode you). Are you still willing to say that you don't believe my claimed motives?

[Claus]

If you want me to explode someone other than Yos2, you'd better get voting. The deadline is Thu, 17pm my time (Thu 8AM GMT, 9AM BST, it seems). I'll probably explode around Thu 12:00 my time (around GMT 0:00 to 3:00).

[Claus]

Why, are you now claiming you forgot about this game or something?

Forgot? Not really. Uninspired instead, like I said before. "Meh, I bet these new posts are more of the same, I'll check this game later".

I'll just say that I always find theoretical discussion of that type very helpful for the town,

I guess we have different playstyles, then. I generally find that theoretical discussion is a way for scum to look pro-town while avoiding scum-hunting posts that could link them to their partners.

The obvious exception is very different game mechanics. In this game, we have two lynches per day. I suggested 2 votes, Adel argued 1. We eventually decided on the 1 vote standard. Done. Theoretical discussion past that detracts from scum hunting.

and challange you to find one single game I have ever played

Nah. I'm not a big fan of using meta as proof of anything. If you want to convince me of your motives, do so in this game.

As I mentioned in a different post, a lot of people look very scummy right now. My main suspects are CES, Elvis, you, and Skitzer, and I also understand the suspcicions on Sarc and Suarve. If I had to make a kill right now, you'd actually only be my third choice, after CES and Elvis.

This is the kind of content that I find pro-townish. Not theory discussion. I find that Scum have a hard time pointing fingers around without eventually leaving a trail back to their nest. Keeping this for future reference.

I don't think I ever said it was a "strong" scumtell, I wouldn't go quite that far.

You said lurking was a "specially strong scumtell" - see your own post number 1, last sentence.

(shrug) Well, I still suspect your motives, yeah. (...) Still, if you don't want me to blow you up before deadline,

Why wouldn't I want to? I have striken a light to allow you to attack me. Are you offering yourself a way out now? If your trade is "answer my questions or I will blow you up", I think I'll just shut up and see what you do.

I have put forward the "town vote" because this is mafia: While I'm pretty sure I'm right about you, I know I could just be wrong. I want to see what the rest of the town thinks.

==============

About other players. I want to see Sarc, Marmalade and Kuribo vote. Of these three, I would be happiest with a Sarc explosion.

[Claus]

I'm here. Will re-read the thread and explode soonish. Any last words for the day?

[Claus]

No time for a re-read now

DYNAMITE: SARCASTRO

- The voice of people!

If we're wrong on this one, dynamite Yos2 tomorrow folks. Seriously. Extra points for having Surye do it.

[Claus]

Says the person who did not explode. Unless you are scum who just won the game, save your comments for later.

[Claus]

Oh well. That sucks. Since you seem to know who the scum is, PEG, get them tomorrow.

[Claus]

We won the game? Wow.

I'm ashamed I did not blow up Yos when I had the chance. Gut, I'm following you next time.

Go Town!

[Claus]

It was a very interesting problem for me -- how to make someone else look scummy AND get out of doing the killing yourself.

I guess this was the main theme of the game. I hadn't noticed it until here.