Dynamite Stick Mafia! GAME OVER

[pickemgenius]

I'm thinking elvis knits myself

i semi-agree

[Yosarian2]

Also, Elmo, if you would explain why you were attacking me for "going after Lurkers on day 1", when that's both completly untrue and rather silly considering I didn't even get to post day 1 myself, that's be good.

[Surye]

CES scares me mostly because I see him as the next irrational player that will blow up someone at the drop of a hat, but I'm not convinced he's scum at this point. Scum has no incentive to blow them selves up, and CES seems pretty convincing he'd take someone out when he feels justified (even if town doesn't..).

I'm pretty confused by the night kill choice myself, I have a suspicion that all the calling out of him as likely scum, and then him dieing, may be a tactic to distance scum from the kill, but I am not sure of this, what is everyone else's take on this choice?

[Sarcastro]

So anyway, I hear Yos is scum.

[Yosarian2]

So anyway, I hear cases are tech.

[Sarcastro]

You seem a little too hung up on Elmo's mistake. Feeling sensitive, are we?

[NabakovNabakov]

I'm pretty confused by the night kill choice myself, I have a suspicion that all the calling out of him as likely scum, and then him dieing, may be a tactic to distance scum from the kill, but I am not sure of this, what is everyone else's take on this choice?

My take is that analyzing it is WIFOM, especially given the amount Skruff's was the target of distrust. This eliminates any concrete motivations (killing astute or trusted players) and leaves only flip-flopping association and dissociation.

Also note that (aside from his "I will dynamite the next person who votes me" which he has already claimed was a joke), this is the first time CES has included himself as a participant in a dynamiting, in other cases he was just directing traffic.

[Elmo]

Mmph. Yos, you mixing me up with skitzer or someone? I can't remember saying that about you going after lurkers.

Marmalade: Mmm. Honestly, I remembered I had a vaguely decent reason for the vote, but really couldn't remember what it was then and had to leave at that point - it was a ten second post, like. I should also say that I don't 'expect' reasoning from anyone, necessarily, just that I was curious. The reason that post was somewhat wishywashy was simply as I said: not a lot has happened, despite us being on day 3, due to people ending the day far too prematurely. I didn't/don't have any solid suspicions, so I wanted to wait until we had something to actually look at, rather than push a case/wagon that was probably incorrect. In 'normal' mafia terms, I'd say we're probably not halfway through day 1 in terms of analysable content, despite the amount of words in this thread.

My voting for you was based around 76.. the first part is that you push Surye's wagon (who I think was a popular wagon, and I doubt is scum), based on him being conformist. Now, scum obviously like to blend in, but people will fairly frequently adopt a kind of herd mentality regardless of alignment; a bunch of people have probably done the same thing as him, but he's being singled out for it here for no ostensible reason. If I hadn't thought it through, I do think I would have been tempted to go along with it for the simple reason that the majority of people were doing it, and

not

doing it seems intuitively anti-town - I consider going along with that plan (as such) a towntell, because it makes the individual odds of survival lower, which scum want to avoid, albeit also leads to rapidly self-destructing towns, which is worse. So in my opinion this is at worst a null tell. I don't agree with your interpretation of the second quote there - it reads naturally to me, I guess there's really not a lot of room for debate on that, heh. I think (from memory) only PEG and someone else were suspicious of you when I voted? I don't think that's particularly un-townlike. Having said all the above, the last time someone acted towards me the way you are now, they were town, so I feel better about you, to the extent I'd say you're probably town. Nice and contradictory, I imagine.

CES.. something about the apparently joking post rubs me the wrong way. Pretty much pure gut, there. It doesn't

seem

like the kinda thing a townie would do, since they have no motive for discouraging people to vote for them; it's apparently not serious, but I still get a bad vibe from it, because it doesn't seem like the kinda random thing that would be rattling around in a townie's head.

I didn't like the way Adel made post 98 with respect to LML bluffing. I thought he might be just pressuring ooba, but didn't say anything because that would just defeat the point. I can't actually think of a pro-town reason to say that, at that point; but it does work well as scum trying to goad Lee into making the kill (I think Yos said this, as well as LML pointing this out in his last words). The problem with that is simply that Adel is not always easy to follow, and it turns out she was town and obviously had some reason for saying what she did that I didn't understand, which is what I was concerned about.

Yos' slip - I wouldn't expect there to be three scum in a game this size, so it's very probably nothing. The only case in which it means something is if we can be reasonably sure there actually are only three scum; in that case, the fact he talked about three scum when one would intuitively expect more makes it more probable that he has inside knowledge, but it seems very unlikely we will ever actually be in this situation. So I don't think it's really worth pursuing, right now.

</verbose>

[NabakovNabakov]

I didn't like the way Adel made post 98 with respect to LML bluffing. I thought he might be just pressuring ooba, but didn't say anything because that would just defeat the point. I can't actually think of a pro-town reason to say that, at that point; but it does work well as scum trying to goad Lee into making the kill (I think Yos said this, as well as LML pointing this out in his last words). The problem with that is simply that Adel is not always easy to follow, and it turns out she was town and obviously had some reason for saying what she did that I didn't understand, which is what I was concerned about.

Note, every person mentioned in this paragraph, besides Yos, is dead.

Regarding Yos' slip: I would actually call it a scumtell. When you don't think about it, you would expect there to be more than three scum in this game, but when you

do

think about it, three actually makes sense considering that there will be

at least

two townie deaths per-cycle. So, when not thinking about it, Yos gives the right/non-intuitive answer, and while I wouldn't go so far as to call bullshit on the "mini mindset" out it's in no way a solid alibi.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, you're right Elmo, I was getting you and Skitzer confused there, my bad.

Sarc: No, not especally, I was just trying to pick a fight, although I got the people confused. It was actually Skitzer who said that, who claimed that I was "going after lurkers on day 1", and I rememberd thinking that was a really scummy thing for him to say, since not only was he completly wrong, it made me notice that he himself had only posted 3 times all game, that he hadn't really said anything all game, and that it seemed like he was attacking me because he was a lurker who didn't like the idea of the town going after lurkers. It seemed like a paranoid over-reaction, and I've seen lurker scum react like that before.

So, yeah.

vote:Skitzer

until we hear more from him. And sorry Elmo.

[Sarcastro]

Okay, we can kill Skitzer instead. Or you can kill Skitzer.

[Yosarian2]

If a majority of the town thinks that I'm the second scummiest person, sure. But there's no bloody rush today, ok? No one needs to do anything until we get all the lurkers in and talking, and until we get a town concensess.

[Surye]

So the score so far is that all Skitzer has done is lied, mislead, and lurked?

Vote: Skitzer

[pickemgenius]

vote: surye

def scum.

reading his most two recent posts have convinced me.

[Claus]

Claus: Exactally why is a "heavy attack on lurkers" a scumtell?

Because on day 2 (where you attacked lurkers on your post no 1). We can't really know who are the lurkers.

In less than 11 pages we had 9 players dead and 3 days past us by. Townies are blowing up before we wait for everyone to speak. It is ingenuous of you to accuse anyone of not speaking, when the town is not waiting for them to speak in the first place. It is a cheap shot.

If these were normal length days, with normal majority bandwagons, that can be seen a long time going, I would agree with you. A player that sees a bandwagon form and discussions happen without saying anything - possibly lurker scum.

But in this game. No. Are there some scum lurking? Probably. But there are also townies that haven't had the chance to speak yet, because of the short days.


(Now to hunt any more questions directed at me during D3)

[Mr Stoofer]

ALIGHT

--

Deadline will be ~6th May.

[Yosarian2]

Because on day 2 (where you attacked lurkers on your post no 1). We can't really know who are the lurkers.

Which is why I didn't attack any specific lurkers yet. At that point, all I made were general statements that scum might lurk and we should look out for that. Which is both true, good stratagy advice in this kind of game, and was hopefully going to be a deterent that might hopefully get people to lurk less if they knew we were going to be going after lurkers.

I didn't attack any SPECIFIC lurkers until day 3, after the game had been going for a full week. If a full week goes by and someone hasn't said anything meaningful yet, then yeah, they're a luker, especally in a game that moves this fast.

In less than 11 pages we had 9 players dead and 3 days past us by. Townies are blowing up before we wait for everyone to speak. It is ingenuous of you to accuse anyone of not speaking, when the town is not waiting for them to speak in the first place. It is a cheap shot.

The very fact you point out is why it's so easy for scum to get away with lurking in this kind of game, if the town's willing to let them do it; scum don't even have to bandwagon really, they just have to sit back and wait for townies to blow each other up and stay out of the way; if we don't want that to be a winning scum stratagy, we have to take steps to prevent it.

And, "cheap shot"? Really? Sorry, am I not being fair to your lurking scumbuddies?

If these were normal length days, with normal majority bandwagons, that can be seen a long time going, I would agree with you. A player that sees a bandwagon form and discussions happen without saying anything - possibly lurker scum.

But in this game. No. Are there some scum lurking? Probably. But there are also townies that haven't had the chance to speak yet, because of the short days.

I never said all the lurkers are scum; there are too many lurkers for that to really be likely. But we need to make them all talk, we need to pressure them to do so, because if we just ignore the lurkers and let them lurk like you seem to want to do, it pretty much guarentees that a lurker scum will in the game.

[Marmalade]

unvote

, I'm more convinced by Elmo's recent post.

Can someone who finds Yos scummy actually give a proper case? I'm finding the Yos hate pretty boring, to be honest.

I agree with pickem that Surye's recent posts are suspect, but I'm not entirely sure as of yet whether or not his skitzler vote is opportunistic. Not voting for now.

[elvis_knits]

Been trying to get rid of this guy for how many days now?

Just yesterday, I think.

I'd rather see Elmo or Yos blown up, but I will do so myself if y'all really think I must.

I've been voting you since D1. It's just never gone anywhere since people keep blowing themselves up without looking at the votes.

[Surye]

vote: surye

def scum.

reading his most two recent posts have convinced me.

Both of them? I can see how the most resent can be seen as somewhat scummy, though after re-reading, that is exactly what I found, I'd like to see where I am wrong.

And what is wrong with my second to last post? I'm not sure what you don't like about it.

[NabakovNabakov]

vote: surye

def scum.

reading his most two recent posts have convinced me.

Both of them? I can see how the most resent can be seen as somewhat scummy, though after re-reading, that is exactly what I found, I'd like to see where I am wrong.

And what is wrong with my second to last post? I'm not sure what you don't like about it.

Well, that post basically parroted ideas about CES in a more alarmist tone and then WIFOMed a nightchoice.

But since you have it all figured out, I'd like it if you handled the second post.

[skitzer]

I'm kind of sad that I'm being called out as a lurker, I mean to post, but because the nights last longer than the days it's kind of hard to find a interval in which I can post. Some people don't watch the site 24/7.

I would like to note this point from Surye.

CES scares me mostly because I see him as the next irrational player that will blow up someone at the drop of a hat, but I'm not convinced he's scum at this point. Scum has no incentive to blow them selves up, and CES seems pretty convincing he'd take someone out when he feels justified (even if town doesn't..).

this is how I interpreted it.

"CES scares me because he could blow me up, which would be bad for me because I'm scum, but I know he's not scum. Scum have no incentive to blow themselves up, and CES seems like a townie who could take me, scum, out when he feels justified (and even if town doesn't see this)[multitude of periods]

Maybe if you read through it again, you'll see what I'm getting at.

Vote: Surye

[Flameaxe]

Lets kill Surye.

[Surye]

I'm kind of sad that I'm being called out as a lurker, I mean to post, but because the nights last longer than the days it's kind of hard to find a interval in which I can post. Some people don't watch the site 24/7.

I would like to note this point from Surye.

CES scares me mostly because I see him as the next irrational player that will blow up someone at the drop of a hat, but I'm not convinced he's scum at this point. Scum has no incentive to blow them selves up, and CES seems pretty convincing he'd take someone out when he feels justified (even if town doesn't..).

this is how I interpreted it.

"CES scares me because he could blow me up, which would be bad for me because I'm scum, but I know he's not scum. Scum have no incentive to blow themselves up, and CES seems like a townie who could take me, scum, out when he feels justified (and even if town doesn't see this)[multitude of periods]

Maybe if you read through it again, you'll see what I'm getting at.

Vote: Surye

So you're saying it's not bad for town to take things into their own hands and blow someone up? Have you been watching this game? I think CES is town, but I don't think he should take things into his own hands. Your interpretation makes no sense.

[skitzer]

Still, you shouldn't be scared of them, IMO.