Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)

[Y]

When I referred to the 'slip' and different versions, I meant exactly what Incognito explained.

I'm not saying we should lynch him because of it. I'm saying we should lynch him. Period. This is just another little thing. I also don't believe his claim.

Near claims Gunsmith (Which is a role I never heard of before). Probably no one will have it, so no counter claim on that, or the cop counter-claims and gets outed. This claim is a win-win situation if Near is scum.

[jerubbaal]

If Near's not actually the cop, someone knows it. This claim is completely testable, and we can be almost completely certain about it when/if we lynch him. The cop knows that he's guilty, if he's not the cop, and we can nail him whenever his story falls apart. If he's scum, he's put himself in a very awkward position.

The confusion in phraseology, either being loaded or unloaded or having a gun or not, makes the claim somewhat weak. Near, if you could, can you tell us as precisely as you can (do not quote your role PM) how your role functions. Be very clear on the language.

[Mizzy]

@Y:

Okay, now I understand a bit about why you thought Sammich may have been a power role.

About Near, I have seen him play a power role (I can't discuss the game much because it's still going, even though he is dead in it) and this is pretty similar to how he played there in my opinion. Without a counter claim, anyway, it's just not safe to lynch him at this point. Yeah, if he is scum then he might get away with a fake-claim, but if he actually IS a power role, that would be even worse, in my opinion. Our mod does like putting interesting flavor on things, so for all we know, his claim is totally legit.

I suppose my question is this: Are you comfortable with lynching an un-countered power-role claimer?

[gorckat]

I suppose my question is this: Are you comfortable with lynching an un-countered power-role claimer?

He claimed a role that is just common enough to be believed and uncommon enough to likely not be countered. I wasn't gonna say it earlier, but like Y said, any real cop or smith knows if he's lying, and getting them outed would be just fine for the scum.

Also, like I did say earlier, with the vig dead, its a great claim.

He misrepresents a lot of facts, distorts people's words, puts a lot of pressure in unneeded places, wastes time, confuses the town, uses bad logic, vote hopping and so on...

As Y pointed out, he's done enough to be lynched, even without a sketchy claim that he's already done a 180 on as far as Reyo having a gun or not.

[Near]

I am not sure what slips you guys are talking about (Mizzy and Incognito). Are you doubting me because you think "Loaded/Unloaded" doesn't exactly fit the role of a gunsmith? If so, it's not my fault.

Or are you doubting me because I forgot to explain it in my first post when I claimed? But, that's what my pm says. I will receive results "Loaded" or "Unloaded".

No. The slip I'm referring to is here:

I checked out XReyoX on night 0. Her gun was unloaded.

In the post above, you mentioned that Reyo's gun was unloaded thereby implying that Reyo both had a gun AND it was unloaded. When I questioned you about it, you said the following:

I actually asked the same question to destructor. She said that "Loaded" and "Unloaded" is for flavour and Loaded basically means the person I checked out has a gun, and "Unloaded" means no gun.

Above you changed it around a bit to mean that Reyo did NOT have a gun and that's why he was unloaded. It's a very subtle difference but it could be a slip nevertheless.

In the absence of a counterclaim though, I see no reason to lynch you over it right now.

Wow. I didn't even realize. You are right, but that was a mistake. I must have been confused because I got "unloaded" as a result.

[Near]

I made a mistake. I must have been momentarily confused. But then, when your pm says you are checking "loaded" or "unloaded" and you start thinking about it in terms of "loaded" or "unloaded", isn't it possible that you might get confused too?

Anyway, I stick by 100% on what I said on post 551.

[Niv]

I claimed vanilla when i showed up didn't I, (so did sammich)

I've been trying to put ogether a post regarding near. all in all, it all seamed pointless and repetive. I basically just echo everyone elses sentiments, with great dislike in all of the dice talk. sorry i cant put in the ime to do something detailed, and even if i did, i just feel it would all be redundant.

Niv, did you in fact read the last few pages of the thread? Near just claimed Gunsmith.

yah, i saw it. thought i put that i don't belive it in my last post. but yah, near cous claim nothing less than mod confimed townie for me to still find htem scum

[ooba]

[quote"near"]but yah, near cous claim nothing less than mod confimed townie for me to still find htem scum[/quote]

Not sure what this means with the spelling errors. Am i correct in reading it as "Near could claim even a mod confirmed townie role and i would still find him scummy"?

[ooba]

EBWOP:

but yah, near cous claim nothing less than mod confimed townie for me to still find htem scum

Not sure what this means with the spelling errors. Am i correct in reading it as "Near could claim even a mod confirmed townie role and i would still find him scummy"?

[jerubbaal]

Eh, the language is still logically inconsistent, but regardless, it's a very testable claim, and if a cop/smith dies or credibly claims at any point, we can just lynch him. If he's scum, the most he gets out of this claim is a couple days. We can deal with it much better later when we have more information. There is absolutely no advantage to lynching him now. We are quickly running out of time, so we either need to proceed with the Niv lynch or run up a quick wagon on Y.

Niv seems to have more or less completely checked out of this game, which is exactly what I would expect from someone who replaced into a game as a scum who was under heavy suspicion. I've done it myself before, and you don't feel like you really have any accountability for your loss, because it was the other guy who did you in, so you don't try. I'm completely fine with his lynch.

[Y]

With Niv's claim (And him not counter-claiming cop), I can go back on attacking him (I was going to put pressure on Sammich before I thought he might be cop).

I am comfortable with a Niv lynch, but I still believe Near is scum. Ooba too, but on a lesser extent.

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

Near (4)

- Y, Imat, gorckat, Niv

Niv (4)

- Near, jerrubaal, Ripley, ooba

Y (1)

- Lowell

Not Voting (2) - Incognito, Mizzy

Six

votes makes a lynch.

[Incognito]

Meh. I'll go with this:

Vote: Niv

If Near is still around at end-game though, I'd advise that he is not allowed to live. As gorckat already mentioned, Gunsmith is just too good of a claim for scum to make especially with the already dead vigilante.

[Mizzy]

I'm not okay with a Niv or Near lynch, sorry folks. I know it puts things at a standstill, but it might give us more information because it means for a lynch, someone will have to unvote and switch wagons.

The top 2 people I would vote for are Ooba and Y, in that order (ooba for his opportunistic vote and lack of decent response to my reasoning why his and his predecessor's vote was stupid and Y because I don't like how sure he is about Near at this time and how adamant he is for a lynch of a power-claimed player.)

However, since ooba replaced someone who Near claims is "unloaded" and I believe Near's claim, I can't very well vote for him until we know for sure about Near. Either he's confirmed town or not depending.

Vote: Y

[Lowell]

I'm not okay with a Niv or Near lynch, sorry folks. I know it puts things at a standstill, but it might give us more information because it means for a lynch, someone will have to unvote and switch wagons.

The top 2 people I would vote for are Ooba and Y, in that order (ooba for his opportunistic vote and lack of decent response to my reasoning why his and his predecessor's vote was stupid and Y because I don't like how sure he is about Near at this time and how adamant he is for a lynch of a power-claimed player.)

However, since ooba replaced someone who Near claims is "unloaded" and I believe Near's claim, I can't very well vote for him until we know for sure about Near. Either he's confirmed town or not depending.

Vote: Y

You would vote for ooba despite believing Near's claim, which says ooba is innocent?

[jerubbaal]

Need one more for the lynch people. I don't want this going to deadline.

Pretty sure mizzy qualified the reason why she wasn't voting for ooba. We have to deal with Near first. I'm willing to bet someone out there knows he's lying, if he's lying. Regardless, it's better to deal with this down the road.

[Ripley]

I don't get the case against ooba. While XReyoX was here I thought he was the standout protown player. At one point it seemed like he was working harder to find scum than the rest of us put together. The only reservation I had was that in the newbie game I played with him XReyoX had me 100% convinced he was town on the basis of his play alone. (He wasn't.) So - I know what he can do, but all the same, many players put a massive effort into their first game but almost never do they keep that level up a year later, and I find it tough to believe that anyone would put quite so much work into

pretending

to scum hunt, especially at a time when (as we now know) he had been trying to deal with RL issues at the same time.

And that was before Near came up with an innocent result on him.

I am comfortable with a Niv lynch, but I still believe Near is scum. Ooba too, but on a lesser extent.

You believe that Near as scum would fake an innocent result on a scum buddy? I think that would be a wildly reckless move so early in the game.

You seem to say here you believe Near is scum but you're OK lynching Niv. Do you believe Niv and Near could be scum buddies? That theory - which I thought was ridiculous - was tossed around by a couple of people a while back, but I don't remember you being one of them.

[Mizzy]

You would vote for ooba despite believing Near's claim, which says ooba is innocent?

No, or I would have voted for him. Had Near NOT cleared ooba, then I would have voted ooba.

[Lowell]

Yeah Y makes absolutely no sense.

[Niv]

Need one more for the lynch people. I don't want this going to deadline.

Pretty sure mizzy qualified the reason why she wasn't voting for ooba. We have to deal with Near first. I'm willing to bet someone out there knows he's lying, if he's lying. Regardless, it's better to deal with this down the road.

will self lynch Before Deadline. I am of the camp tat any ynch is a good lynch

[Mizzy]

will self lynch Before Deadline. I am of the camp tat any ynch is a good lynch

This is not good posting. Or good playing.

[Y]

Ripley, I'd like you to read Newbie 546.
I wasn't on any theory accusing Sammich to be scum, since I thought he's a power-role, or will expose one if I say anything.

You believe that Near as scum would fake an innocent result on a scum buddy? I think that would be a wildly reckless move so early in the game.

Therefore he's not scum. So it's a good move to do as scum, but reckless, so it isn't... WIFOM.

I believe any one of them could be scum. While Niv strikes me as a possible scum, Near strikes me as a sure scum. Yes, I do think they could be scum together (See the way I pressured Capricious on Newbie 546, again).

The top 2 people I would vote for are Ooba and Y, in that order (ooba for his opportunistic vote and lack of decent response to my reasoning why his and his predecessor's vote was stupid and Y because I don't like how sure he is about Near at this time and how adamant he is for a lynch of a power-claimed player.)

Please read D1 in Mini 534 (Vegetable Mafia).

[Incognito]

will self lynch Before Deadline. I am of the camp tat any ynch is a good lynch

This is not good posting. Or good playing.

I agree.

Niv, after this last post, you look either like scum attempting to limit information available in the thread

or

like lazy town who has just realized his fate. If it's the latter, you should feel obligated to help us find out who the scum is instead of just "I think Near is scum".

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

Near (4)

- Y, Imat, gorckat, Niv

Niv (5)

- Near, jerrubaal, Ripley, ooba, Incognito

Y (2)

- Lowell, Mizzy

Not Voting (0) - No one

Six

votes makes a lynch.

Imat has told me that he has had limited access but will be back on Friday.
gorckat will also have limited access for an unknown amount of time. If this becomes an issue I will replace him.

Note: As of this post, you have just under 19 hours until the deadline.

[Mizzy]

Niv:

Get off your butt and play the game please?