Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Joudas]

I'm kind of torn on whether Near is a good candidate for a lynch right now or not. On one hand, he's noncommittal, he's non participatory, and in general, he's not helping town at all. On the other hand, though, after going back through and trying to find some semi-valid links between him and other people, I'm really not seeing anything that could be called anything but circumstantial. This is bad, in that if he's lynched today, no matter what he turns up, it doesn't really give us a lot to go on tomorrow. The lynch is town's main weapon if and only if it provides useful information.

Am I missing something? Going back and looking at Near's posts and others posts about Near, what links could we establish? What direction would you want to go day 2 if he turned up scum? If he turned up town?

I'm not saying he's a

bad

candidate, merely that we might want to consider this before moving for a lynch.

[Dasquian]

Uck, this sounds like a weak attempt to get Near out of the noose.

If we think he's scummy, he should be lynched. Finding links is something that can be done in retrospect and unless they're glaringly obvious to the point of creating an unarguable dependency chain ("if A is scum, so is B..."), I find it suspect when people try to make or break lynches on theoretical links.

Put another way... if candidate A is scummy and has no links, and candidate B is scummyish but less so, but has had some clashes with a number of other players, the right lynch IMO is still candidate A.

Of course, if someone makes themselves scummy by apparently buddying or distancing themselves, that's another matter; that's scummy behaviour

before

you consider the validity of that implied link.

[Coron]

Coron, what info have you gathered?

I think Pyro is a good lynch, that's what I'm getting.

Info:
- Dasquian: Even less likely to be scum than before, probably town
- Evilgorrilaz: massive lurker, not contributing much
- Guardian: Sheep, I'm a tiny bit suspicous but not bad.
- JamesThePhox: Hasn't said a thing, still suspicous
- Joudas: Misunderstands my first post even after I explain it like twice, gets very defensive about my claims that he defended JamesThePhox, and denies that attacking someone attacking a person is defending that person. Currently voting on the competing bandwagon to JamesThePhox/PyroDwarf. Has moved considerably up my scumminess charts.
- Macavenger: Hugely overreacts to my statements, also misunderstanding me, but not as badly as Joudas, also claims he was just fighting against crap logic, sure, I understand why you would do that, but it seemed to be a little more than you really needed to do, thus why I see a connection, he has moved up to mildly suspicous.
- Near: has done some pretty odd things to make me feel suspicious, but looking back on it he seems like the "easy" lynch that is never right(like lynching Baby Jesus back in the day), it really just doesn't feel quite "right", it's hard to explain.
- PyroDwarf: It's recent posts have not really made me feel either way really, just kinda meh, I guess I've cooled a little to the idea of him being scum.
- SensFan: Silence...
- Singing Librarian: I'm not strongly suspicous.
- Coron: obviously town.
- Yosarian2: He's seemed a little quiet compared to what I remember, I always remember had had big long posts with lots of reasoning, not seeing it this game, dunno if he changed his style recently, if he's acting different because he's scum, or if he's just been busy recently, but I find this mildly suspicous, again nothing to strong.

With recent happenings I think I'm going to

UNVOTE VOTE: JAMESTHEPHOX

We need to presure some of the lurkers to post, plus he's suspicous, it's like a twofer.

[Near]

I'm kind of torn on whether Near is a good candidate for a lynch right now or not. On one hand, he's noncommittal, he's non participatory, and in general, he's not helping town at all. On the other hand, though, after going back through and trying to find some semi-valid links between him and other people, I'm really not seeing anything that could be called anything but circumstantial. This is bad, in that if he's lynched today, no matter what he turns up, it doesn't really give us a lot to go on tomorrow. The lynch is town's main weapon if and only if it provides useful information.

Am I missing something? Going back and looking at Near's posts and others posts about Near, what links could we establish? What direction would you want to go day 2 if he turned up scum? If he turned up town?

Also keep in mind how easy people got me to L-2. In two different occasions because I wasn't participating enough in this game. While I do agree that it is fair to vote against me because I wasn't contributing enough, I still find it interesting how easy and without opposition I was put at L-2. From my perspective, I am inclined to think that most of the scums were/are on my bandwagon both times.

[Coron]

I'm kind of torn on whether Near is a good candidate for a lynch right now or not. On one hand, he's noncommittal, he's non participatory, and in general, he's not helping town at all. On the other hand, though, after going back through and trying to find some semi-valid links between him and other people, I'm really not seeing anything that could be called anything but circumstantial. This is bad, in that if he's lynched today, no matter what he turns up, it doesn't really give us a lot to go on tomorrow. The lynch is town's main weapon if and only if it provides useful information.

Am I missing something? Going back and looking at Near's posts and others posts about Near, what links could we establish? What direction would you want to go day 2 if he turned up scum? If he turned up town?

Also keep in mind how easy people got me to L-2. In two different occasions because I wasn't participating enough in this game. While I do agree that it is fair to vote against me because I wasn't contributing enough, I still find it interesting how easy and without opposition I was put at L-2. From my perspective, I am inclined to think that most of the scums were/are on my bandwagon both times.

That's all fine and dandy, now who do you think the scums are?

[Dasquian]

Also keep in mind how easy people got me to L-2. In two different occasions because I wasn't participating enough in this game. While I do agree that it is fair to vote against me because I wasn't contributing enough, I still find it interesting how easy and without opposition I was put at L-2. From my perspective, I am inclined to think that most of the scums were/are on my bandwagon both times.

Sure, they were probably bussing you

[Yosarian2]

Pretty happy lynching either JamesthePhox or Near , especally so long as they both keep lurking.

Coron: Eh. I go back and forth. I do the long mega-post thing when it seems approperate; the thing is, right now the two scummiest people in the game are also the two lurkiest, so there's just not that much stuff to analyze. I don't do the wall of words stuff ALL THE TIME like I did when I was a newbie, if that's what your asking.

[Joudas]

Put another way... if candidate A is scummy and has no links, and candidate B is scummyish but less so, but has had some clashes with a number of other players, the right lynch IMO is still candidate A.

So what makes Near scummier then other people? Aside from his lack of posting, of course.

[Macavenger]

Hey guys, I've had an unexpectedly busy couple of days, and now I think I'm getting sick also. Not sure when I'll be able to catch up, hopefully by Friday or Saturday.

[Guardian]

Guys I re-read...

And I found the scums!

unvote: PyroDwarf

Let's have a look at...

Dasquian's

play.

His main contributions have been:

Vote VH, maintain suspicion of Near. When VH is replaced by a good player, unvote VH and vote Near. Pressure Near, give impetus on Near to be lynched, etc.

Dasquian has (for the most part) not done anything but pressure these two players all day. He's attacked the (arguably) two weakest players in the game, and with deadline coming up (right?) he is keeping with his game plan, on the Large & Easy Near wagon, and isn't doing much of any creative scum hunting.

The most we've gotten is post 227, in which he attacks favorable targets, expresses mild suspicion of me after buddying earlier, and overall is a scummy scummy scumbag.

Post 234, where he asks if I prefer Near or Pyro, REEKS like he knows ONE of them is scum, and wants to catch me in a trap later when one of them turns up as scum.

Dasquian wants the easy, reasonable lynch, and doesn't want to comment on too many players and leave connections. He has only attacked the mainstream obvious targets, and is quite happy to sit on his main two targets all day, only casting peripheral suspicion on others.

Now, if you want to lynch scum today, follow my lead and vote him. Thanks.

vote: Dasquian

[Evilgorrilaz]

I will

Unvote

Guardian, haven't MOST people expressed interest in lynching either near or JtP? With his post 227, all I see is that he attacks lurkers (including me). I get the feeling that his attack on you is actually sort of buddying up to you, while trying to distance himself at the same time. Also, I am not getting the scummy vibe from post 234 that you are mentioning.

[Guardian]

Evil: most people have expressed interest, but that is about the sum total of Dasquian's contribution.

His attention to them and no others, and his willingness to carry that to a lynch, is what makes him suspicious.

Try voting him. It just feels so right.

[Near]

Guardian, you look scummy.

[Dasquian]

Pfft. I am more than happy with today's play having been pressuring VH and Near. Both were scummy, both deserve attention. And anyway...

His attention to them and no others, and his willingness to carry that to a lynch, is what makes him suspicious.

Er, no? In a recent post (227), I actually called out 5 people (including yourself, coincidentally), and said why I found them questionable and/or scummy. So, what? Should I be flailing in three or four directions trying to get a number of people lynched? That would have given you a different angle to attack me with, I guess.

Also, if you argument is going for the "big" wagons and my "attention to them and no others", then, what about Near? He's been pushed to L-2 twice now and all he can do is cite vague suspicion of JamesThePhox, and corollary suspicion of Coron.

I actually don't understand at what point picking your two scummiest players and trying to get them lynched became scummy play.

Anyway:

So what makes Near scummier then other people? Aside from his lack of posting, of course.

Well, there's nearly everything he said:

1) Crazy FOS which got back-peddled as being a joke.
2) Painfully non-committal attempts at scum-hunting.
3) The *timing* of his lurking (when the pressure is off)
4) More non-committal posting where he downplays his suspicions.

The biggie is his lurking, I'll grant you. It's a biggie because it's the cop-out from doing anything suspicious. Guardian's attack is off the mark, but at least it's there because I put stuff out there to get attacked over. Near hasn't done that unless forced and what he

has

said has seemed, to me at least, to be an attempt not to get anyone's backs up, lose the votes, and go back to lurking.

And I think the "I got to L-2 twice so I must be innocent with scum forcing my wagon through" argument stinks.

[Near]

Dasquian. Vote Guardian or Phox.
They are scums.

[Dasquian]

Oh, and, cheap tricks ahoy. It's much easier to make your case look sexy if you play around with the php tags, isn't it

Guardian

?

[Dasquian]

Near, care to elaborate? I am less than impressed with Guardian's recent posts (particularly the bravo-confidence he's using to try and push people into voting me), but on my last reread I got a town vibe more than anything. Is there a case there I missed?

Phox is a reasonable bandwagon target, I guess, but my vote stays on your for the moment.

[Joudas]

Guardian pulled this early game, too - tried to play Mr. Charisma and pull people into his way of thinking.

Examples:

I don't wish to answer at this time. My choice was not random, however.

It requires 4 more votes to lynch Fox. Use your votes wisely Wink.

First line places himself above others. He's asking for other folks' motivation behind their actions, grilling them on it, in fact, and when he is asked, he declines to answer and moves on. I didn't like it then, I don't like it now - it has a very "I don't need to convince you I'm right, you need to convince me you are" air to it.

Second line leans towards casually suggesting without actually saying it that folks should lynch Phox. He later comes back to this with:

Some more foxy votes would be nice. His post 38 seems to be a good blend of hypocrisy mixed with WIFOM considering he was one of the last people to 'not come up with 2 votes out of 10 cast', yet he agrees that the occurrence is fairly suspicious.

When asked 'why the mystery', he responds, simply:

Why not?

And still doesn't answer folks' questions.

Further, he constantly asks other folks question after question, almost exclusively about why they're doing what they're doing. This serves to keep folks answering his questions and ensure they ignore his lack of answers and (in a lot of cases) lack of solid logic.

He also stays away from the VH bandwagon. He defends his position with:

VH also merits bandwagoning. I'm more interested in Phox because I see him as about equally guilty, but there is much more resistance.

He switches to VH at #148, the bandwagon never approaches critical mass, and when VH is replaced and Coron seems to be making more sense, Guardian immediately drops the former VH wagon and sidles up to Coron.

Coron has a similar playstyle - very charismatic and pointing a lot of fingers.

FoS: Guardian, Coron.

When I've got a little more time later tonight, I'll re-examine this. It is possible Guardian was bussing VH when he seemed a lost cause, reversing his strategy when Coron replaced in and his buddy became active again.

[Coron]

So, um, you're FoSing me for being charismatic and for scum hunting. Good work.

[Guardian]

You're also straw manning me Joudas.

I never wanted more phox lynch, I just wanted to leave the implication that I did. I think that that's fairly obvious from my later postings.

I've almost never refused to answer direct questions in this game. Sometimes I am cryptic in my responses... but if whomever wanted me to answer a question doesn't follow up after a muddled response, whose fault is that?

You appear to be attacking me for playing the game. The link between me and VH is convoluted. Your attack on Coron is based on a convoluted connection to me.

I find your post unreasonable.

[Guardian]

never wanted more phox votes makes no sense re-reading.

that should say

"didn't want more phox votes at that time"

[Guardian]

Oh, and, cheap tricks ahoy. It's much easier to make your case look sexy if you play around with the php tags, isn't it

Guardian

?

That's actually the first time I tried it; I'll let you know how much it helped once we lynch you :D.

(more duckscum votes plz)

[Evilgorrilaz]

(more duckscum votes plz)

Not sold on Dasquian=scum
To me it seems like you are pulling what you pulled on JtP

[Guardian]

Nah phox was a pretty crappy bandwagon to start the day off.

Dasquian I want lynched.

[Coron]

Nah phox was a pretty crappy bandwagon to start the day off.

Dasquian I want lynched.

I swear to god you're ADD or something.