Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[Xtoxm]

It's better than letting himself be NKed. Which clearly, he believed I was going to.

[Battle Mage]

Mafia killing doesnt mean we lose, and mafia will want to kill cult anyway, cos mafia is about to lose to the cult just like town is.

You think a lone goon is gonna sacrifice his own very limited chances of beating the town, in order to stop a cult which might not even be an issue, and would be alot harder to find?
Talk about scare-mongering...

BM

[dahen]

I'll probably have no access until Monday.

Oman: 1 I am not cult. 2 I will most definitely vote.

[Imat]

Sorry for prolonged inactivity, lost my internet for a week. I'll read what I've missed and give my thoughts ASAP. Also, BM, do you have any results you want to share? I may have missed something, but skimming tells me you're the claimed Cop.

[Xtoxm]

No, he fake claimed.

[Imat]

Ah, that explains a lot. Well then, I don't want a result...Unless you fake unclaimed as well...

[Norinel]

I'd be willing to vote, it'd probably now go to Imat. I think lynching someone we're pretty sure is the last goon isn't a good idea, but I think that there's a good enough chance of Imat being CR to be worth it.

[Imat]

Wait, what? lynching the last goon isn't worth it? Have you ever been in a game where its worth it to risk being NKed just to keep the Mafia in the game?

Also, when did I become the recruiter? I'm not liking where all of this is going, first I MUST be Mafia, now I HAVE TO BE CR? What are the odds that I'm a CR? Less than that of being a Goon. I'll admit, only having one person killed is strange, so BM was in his right to point the finger at me. But to call me Cult is completely baseless.

In fact, Norinel, that whole post is full of Scum. First you say "Let the Mafia live," then you continue by making baseless accusations against me. Where do your priorities lie? Obviously not with the Town.

[Xtoxm]

There seems to be confusion, BOTH MAFIA and ME killed GW.

[Battle Mage]

Imat, its pretty obvious what Norinel's motives are. I think we have this game wrapped up.

BM

[Imat]

Excuse me if I don't agree, BM. Lynch me and the game is most certainly not wrapped up. In fact, lynch me and the game goes down the tube for the Town. But, then again, that may be good for you BM. Perhaps all this accusing of myself has given you an excellent way to prevent suspicions on yourself. You see an easy target, a replacement who happened to replace in on a night with only one kill, and you jump at the chance to misguide the Town. And this isn't the first time you've done so, either. Honestly BM, your case against me is "He replaced in and lied about not reading, he must be Scum." Really? Is that really all you've got going on me? Because by the way you've been talking, it sounds like you have obvScum. Which, obviously, is not the case. I'm telling you once now, lynch me and the game'll just be that much harder. Do some actual Hunting and it can only get easier. I'm NOT Scum. If the actual Scum wants to claim, that would help the game along immensly and would be greatly appreciated.

[Oman]

Guys. I'm a lot more alive than I thought I'd be but I might as well claim now: I was lying with my claim, trying to draw an NK and stop them killing BM (who I thought was a cop) I actually have no power. So, uh....sorry bout the lies, but lieing townies can be good for the game. just wanted to get that out before any real doctor counter-claimed and got me lynched. Yeah...well...I can't believe BM and I had the same idea.

Oh and the absoloute fail of dahen is quite obvious, whether that is scummy or not, I am unsure.

[Imat]

Ok im at the start of Page 10. Heres my LoS so far:

OMG – Highly Scummy
Elias- Fairly Scummy

Militant- Slightly Scummy
LaLaLand- Slightly Scummy (now Xtoxm)
XreyoX- Slightly scummy

Norinel- Neutral
Dahen- Neutral
BlazeRunner- Neutral

Ghostwriter- Fairly Protown
FriendofOld- Very protown
Oman- Highly protown

Anyone ranked Fairly Scummy or higher is someone I’d be willing to lynch on the spot. Anyone ranked Slightly scummy is one to keep an eye on, and could be lynchable in the future.
Anyone ranked neutral, I cant really find anything major that suggests they are either protown or anti-town.
Fairly Protown means that im leaning towards protown, but not absolutely sure.
Very Protown or above means you are virtually beyond reproach, and im nearly certain that you are town, or at the very least, not going to be lynched for a while.

I’ll continue reading over the weekend fo’ sure. In meantime,

Unvote, Vote: OMG

if I am not already.

BM

My first comment in finally getting to the read: BM, I didn't realize you said the exact same thing as me upon entering the game, "I haven't read yet." Are you denying your own claim then, or are you the only one who doesn't read every single game just in case they'll be willing to offer replacement should the need arise?

Second comment: Where the heck could this list have possibly come from? I got exactly the opposite reads at this point in the game, though some of that is from knowledge of their actual alignment. However, much of it isn't. Before I continue past this point of my read, I have Lorinel, Dahel, BM, and Oman on my list of suspects. FoO is not included because I know he's Scum. I'm of the opinion that BM is Cult and Lorinel is Mafia.

Stopping midway through page 14 as its getting late. BM and Lorinel, I'll try and get an analysis of your posts done after I've finished reading, see what you have to say for yourselves. All others on my list, same goes for you, but probably to a lesser extent seeing as how I've provided my top two, which obviously means I have more to go on with them...

Also BM, before I leave for the night, there were two attempted kills last night, which I failed to notice was proven by the Mod. GW was shot and shotgunned, implying two killing groups targetting one player. So yes, there were two hits, the Mafia, whoever is left, was not "clever" enough to purposely not kill in order to get Rey/myself lynched.

And finally, still looking for that Mafia claim. Remember, the Cult has a high chance of winning this thing if we don't work together to kill them off. A claim is in both our best interests.

[Battle Mage]

Excuse me if I don't agree, BM. Lynch me and the game is most certainly not wrapped up. In fact, lynch me and the game goes down the tube for the Town. But, then again, that may be good for you BM. Perhaps all this accusing of myself has given you an excellent way to prevent suspicions on yourself. You see an easy target, a replacement who happened to replace in on a night with only one kill, and you jump at the chance to misguide the Town. And this isn't the first time you've done so, either. Honestly BM, your case against me is "He replaced in and lied about not reading, he must be Scum."

You lied about not reading? wtf?

Really? Is that really all you've got going on me? Because by the way you've been talking, it sounds like you have obvScum. Which, obviously, is not the case. I'm telling you once now, lynch me and the game'll just be that much harder. Do some actual Hunting and it can only get easier. I'm NOT Scum. If the actual Scum wants to claim, that would help the game along immensly and would be greatly appreciated.

Interesting to note that while the first quote is made with the suggestion that i am scum, the second quote holds true with the assumption that i am town. Thats more than a little inconsistent.
But if what you say is true, why arent you voting for Norinel?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok im at the start of Page 10. Heres my LoS so far:

OMG – Highly Scummy
Elias- Fairly Scummy

Militant- Slightly Scummy
LaLaLand- Slightly Scummy (now Xtoxm)
XreyoX- Slightly scummy

Norinel- Neutral
Dahen- Neutral
BlazeRunner- Neutral

Ghostwriter- Fairly Protown
FriendofOld- Very protown
Oman- Highly protown

Anyone ranked Fairly Scummy or higher is someone I’d be willing to lynch on the spot. Anyone ranked Slightly scummy is one to keep an eye on, and could be lynchable in the future.
Anyone ranked neutral, I cant really find anything major that suggests they are either protown or anti-town.
Fairly Protown means that im leaning towards protown, but not absolutely sure.
Very Protown or above means you are virtually beyond reproach, and im nearly certain that you are town, or at the very least, not going to be lynched for a while.

I’ll continue reading over the weekend fo’ sure. In meantime,

Unvote, Vote: OMG

if I am not already.

BM

My first comment in finally getting to the read: BM, I didn't realize you said the exact same thing as me upon entering the game, "I haven't read yet." Are you denying your own claim then, or are you the only one who doesn't read every single game just in case they'll be willing to offer replacement should the need arise?

I seriously dont have a fecking clue what you are on about here. When did i EVER claim that not reading is scummy? The scummy aspect of your not reading, is that it totally ties in with the illogical scum NK of the previous night.

Second comment: Where the heck could this list have possibly come from? I got exactly the opposite reads at this point in the game, though some of that is from knowledge of their actual alignment.

Yeh my two top suspects came up town. I'm not always right. Get used to it. I'm not going to take criticism of my early reads that seriously, from a player who has replaced in at a time where the alignment of half of those players is revealed.

However, much of it isn't. Before I continue past this point of my read, I have Lorinel, Dahel, BM, and Oman on my list of suspects. FoO is not included because I know he's Scum. I'm of the opinion that BM is Cult and Lorinel is Mafia.

Now we're getting somewhere. Right, please outline your suspicions of Dahen, Norinal, Oman and myself. In other words, everyone apart from you and Xtoxm, who is relentlessly defending you, and you wouldnt want to get on the wrong side of, eh?

Oh and ftr, Norinel is virtually confirmed CR. And unless i was on some insane gambit, i cannot be mafia. Hence the Mafia is either you or Oman.

Stopping midway through page 14 as its getting late. BM and Lorinel, I'll try and get an analysis of your posts done after I've finished reading, see what you have to say for yourselves. All others on my list, same goes for you, but probably to a lesser extent seeing as how I've provided my top two, which obviously means I have more to go on with them...

Not necessarily. Its a typical scum mistake to pick 2 suspects, and mess with the facts in order to set them up. In fact, the greatest towntell is being open-minded and being willing to change your view in the face of irrefutable evidence to the contrary. God knows some of us are too arrogant for this to apply, but i won't tar you with the same brush. Lets hear your analysis of EVERYONE, upto page 14. I'm intrigued to hear why you think EVERYONE is so scummy at that point.

Also BM, before I leave for the night, there were two attempted kills last night, which I failed to notice was proven by the Mod. GW was shot and shotgunned, implying two killing groups targetting one player. So yes, there were two hits, the Mafia, whoever is left, was not "clever" enough to purposely not kill in order to get Rey/myself lynched.

Not-killing would be less consistent with you being scum, than GW being killed. You arent the most perceptive scumbag in the world, but you arent an total idiot. You know that killing someone is better than killing no-one, especially as a lone goon. You did what you could, and got unlucky that your shot hit someone pretty much irrelevant to your chances. But again, i love the way you are construing the facts in order to worm your way out of this.

And finally, still looking for that Mafia claim. Remember, the Cult has a high chance of winning this thing if we don't work together to kill them off. A claim is in both our best interests.

I'm not quite sure as to the purpose of the above post. If you were town, you'd know that asking the mafia to claim would be pretty stupid, because he would not be under pressure, and would not need to reveal himself. Equally, if you were mafia, as i am almost certain you are, you dont seriously expect the CR to fakeclaim mafia when, again he is not under pressure. The only logical motive for the above quote is to distance yourself from the accusations of you being mafia, with a clearly fabricated attempted to find them...

BM

[Oman]

I say we take out Norinel tonight, destroy the cult and then go after Imat tomorrow.

Unvote Vote Norinel

[Battle Mage]

I know referencing ongoing games isnt allowed, but i figure referring to comments let slip in mafia discussion shouldnt be a problem.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5&start=23

Now to put this into context, Norinel is modding CultAfia- a large cult game. But he refers to 'several' cult games, and i think unless ive missed something pretty major here, he is including this one, and thus letting slip that he is the Cult Recruiter here.

I'm not quite sure what to make of Oman's claim, but i'm happy to go with a Norinel lynch as long as Imat is killed immediately afterwards.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I say we take out Norinel

tonight

, destroy the cult and then go after Imat tomorrow.

Unvote Vote Norinel

lolwut?

>.>

BM

[Oman]

isn't that optimal play?

Can someone crunch the numbers?

Oh right: tonight. Its 12.10 am here, and I'm tired, for me, this is TONIGHT.

Whatever the fuck.

[Battle Mage]

how come you then said we'd go after Imat 'tomorrow' when if u were referring to rl time, we would clearly not be in the day phase?

[Pink Puppy]

I'd be willing to vote, it'd probably now go to Imat. I think lynching someone we're pretty sure is the last goon isn't a good idea, but I think that there's a good enough chance of Imat being CR to be worth it.

Could you pony up some proof about Imat being CR? You're just throwing that out there with not even a vague idea of why you think that's true.

[Battle Mage]

PP, what are your thoughts on Oman atm?

BM

[Pink Puppy]

I think Oman is my alternate suspect for scum (third behind Imat and Norinel).

[Norinel]

Wait, what? lynching the last goon isn't worth it? Have you ever been in a game where its worth it to risk being NKed just to keep the Mafia in the game?

Actually, I almost have, but I had to dig a bit to find it- Post-It Mafia. Basically, it's a mini that got down to 3 Mafia, 1 SK, and 3 town. I came out with info that proved who the SK was and mafia quicklynched the SK to win immediately. The mafia now is in a similar situation to what the SK was in then.

But how did you go in three posts from "Lynching the last goon isn't worth it?" to advocating for a scum claim? Either you understand why lynching Mafia could be a bad idea right now, you're pro-town and just don't get it, or you're anti-town and trying to confuse us.

I know referencing ongoing games isnt allowed, but i figure referring to comments let slip in mafia discussion shouldnt be a problem.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5&start=23

Now to put this into context, Norinel is modding CultAfia- a large cult game. But he refers to 'several' cult games, and i think unless ive missed something pretty major here, he is including this one, and thus letting slip that he is the Cult Recruiter here.

Yes, I was referring to this game when I said that, since it's an example of someone specifically trying to deal with the considerations of a cult game. That has nothing to do with my role here; if it did, I wouldn't have posted it in MD.

I'd be willing to vote, it'd probably now go to Imat. I think lynching someone we're pretty sure is the last goon isn't a good idea, but I think that there's a good enough chance of Imat being CR to be worth it.

Could you pony up some proof about Imat being CR? You're just throwing that out there with not even a vague idea of why you think that's true.

As I've kind of said before, I don't have time to reread the entire thread and pull out a bunch of quotes every time I make a statement. In short, the arguments already put forth about Imat/Reyo being anti-town are stronger than the arguments pointing to them specifically being Mafia.

In particular, people are focusing on last night's kill, but since the replacement was announced during the night, it's easy WIFOM to make a irrational-seeming kill to throw suspicion on the replacement. Going after the claimed power roles might not have even been a reasonable play regardless, since, like I said before, the two people claiming the strongest power roles were the two people who'd talked the most about town fakeclaiming.

And, of course, if the main reason people don't think Imat's the CR is that they think I am, I at least know that they're wrong in that regard, and have argued against the points that've come up.

[Pink Puppy]

Norinel, I don't need you to quote a billion things, but I do want you to explain your statements if you say something like -- "this guy is the CR."

For me, the main reason I think Imat is mafia is because Reyo made SO MANY statements against FoO but never voted him.

I am having second thoughts on Imat only because he seems so hopelessly confused about what is going on. In a way that I don't think is faked. I guess mafia can be confused too...

But I think for me the main thing about Imat is reyo's soft attacks on FoO that read more like coaching, and encouragement to play more town-like, and that reyo never votes FoO.