Pick your Poison 3 (Game Over)

[Patrick]

Votecount

starkmoon (1) -- Coron
Incognito (4) -- Ether, Sarcastro, q21, Mellowed Man
q21 (2) -- scotmany12, JDodge
Coron (2) -- Incognito, ashmite84
Ether (1) -- Elmo

Not voting: starkmoon, babygirl86, Inquisitor JL, Marmalade, armlx, mr. incrediball, Flameaxe, Dave
18 alive, 10 to lynch.

[Ether]

Incognito's Coronvote reads like he's trying not to draw attention to his OMGUS statement. I still like my vote.

Well obviously you have a completely different opinion about the game of Mafia from me. I am of the opinion that a town can win even in a "Mountainous" situation if the town isn't lazy and it scum hunts correctly.

Well, yeah. My issue is that the logical extension would be {godfather,

roleblocker,

rolecop}: a daytalking janitor hurts even in a mountainous, while a roleblocker is harmless. In fact, I'd argue that roleblocker is the weakest of the five roles

anyway.

({Incognito, JDodge} are the only players who ever had votes on rolecop and not roleblocker, and JDodge switched over quickly.)

Meta-game me and look for instances where I've been accused of being scum while I was aligned on the side of the town. You'll see that a pretty good majority of those times the scum themselves were doing the accusing.

From what I've seen: Patrick (town),

Tajo

(town), Guardian (scum, but lategame--he had

no other choice

). There are probably other games. My meta on you allows for OMGUS, but there was an unfamiliar panicked vibe to 33.

Mellowed, why'd you vote for me specifically (out of {Coron, Ether, Marmalade, Sarcastro}) and why'd you switch?

Picture this: for whatever reason we mislynch on D1, the scum make their regular kill on Night 1 plus the vig makes a successful extra kill. Then for whatever reason we mislynch on D2 then the same happens night 2. All of a sudden we are down 6 townies.

Four of those deaths would be common to both situations. The vig means that the town has one less lynch--I'm not wild about this, but I treasure information.

Hey, here's something interesting: the supersaint and its hammerer are both janitorproof. (I've clarified this already.) Until the janitor's shot is out, pressured supersaints should act and claim like vanillas, and the town should vote on who should hammer each individual. (Of course, this assumes that there are supersaints.)

For example, Mellowed should hammer Incognito.

Serious suggestion.

[q21]

Wish washy: huh?

Non-committal: How is a vote non-committal?

Follow-what-the-town's-majority-seems-to-think: Didn't realise that two people were the town majority.

Sudden swap from vig.

It was fairly obvious that the Incog wagon was going to gain substantial momentum.

Okay. I changed because I finally got a chance to read some of PYP 2 and all the post game talk - like you suggested - and decided that I was incorrect in my view that daytalk would definitely help the scum.

[babygirl86]

oops my bad. I guess thats what I get for making a post just after I get up. Lets try this again

vote incognito

[Dave]

Vote incognito

[mr. incrediball]

Vote: Incognito

Bandwagon ahoy!

If you give us a list of your scumbuddies now, we'll consider letting you live. We already know that Mr. Incrediball is one, but you could still save us a lot of time by telling us who the other two are.

OMGUS!

vote: sarcastro

*continues reading*

[mr. incrediball]

on second thought, it appears i've missed the random voting stage.

unvote

[Mellowed Man]

Mellowed, why'd you vote for me specifically (out of {Coron, Ether, Marmalade, Sarcastro}) and why'd you switch?

Hey, here's something interesting: the supersaint and its hammerer are both janitorproof. (I've clarified this already.) Until the janitor's shot is out, pressured supersaints should act and claim like vanillas, and the town should vote on who should hammer each individual. (Of course, this assumes that there are supersaints.)

For example, Mellowed should hammer Incognito.

Serious suggestion.

Alright: I voted Sarcastro because I was a bit hazy on the whereabouts of the situation, and thought it was a bit like the beginning of a normal game. (random stage). I acquiesce, I did not really specifically read what people said aside from their votes on what roles to give to the mafia. Therefore, I really had no idea what Incognito had said and if it had any relevance whatsoever.

On the latter part, I lost you. What do you mean by Janitorproof? I did not see a role called Janitor, unless perhaps you mean Jack of All Trades? Anyways, if you all want me to hammer Incognito for whatever reason, I'll oblige?????

Yeah, I think I need you to explain what you mean.

[Ether]

You did not vote for Sarcastro. You voted for me. While Sarcastro and I have this saddening habit of never being active in the same games at the same times, we are distinct entities.

This has

definitely

not answered my question. Why did you vote for me, as opposed to {Coron, Marmalade, Sarcastro}? What do you believe about us vig-supporters currently? What prompted you to move to Incognito?

A janitor is the standard name for a mafia role which prevents roles from being revealed on death--the ugly half of the encryptor. This one only affects lynches; therefore, I believe supersaints should fakeclaim vanilla when pressured, and towns should treat vanilla claims identically to supersaint claims. If there are supersaints, voting for hammerers generates more information, and there is a chance that the janitor shot will be wasted altogether. Understood?

I'm thinking some other things, but they can wait.

[Mellowed Man]

This has

definitely

not answered my question. Why did you vote for me, as opposed to {Coron, Marmalade, Sarcastro}? What do you believe about us vig-supporters currently? What prompted you to move to Incognito?

I'm thinking some other things, but they can wait.

OK:

I voted for you, truthfully, as a random stage vote, in all seriousness. At the same time, I picked your name randomly. Yes, this is a weak argument on my behalf, but 100% relevant.

Furthermore, I think that the vig-supporters are by probability more than likely not all scum, so I don't think the votes themselves are enough to form conjectures about anything yet without further activity.

I moved to Incognito just because it was a bandwagon, AND Sarcastroid said that he made a very blunt post in the beginning. When I read that he voted and proclaimed that he thought it did not matter what the scum roles were, I concluded that putting my vote there would not do any harm.

[ashmite84]

Hey, here's something interesting: the supersaint and its hammerer are both janitorproof. (I've clarified this already.) Until the janitor's shot is out, pressured supersaints should act and claim like vanillas, and the town should vote on who should hammer each individual. (Of course, this assumes that there are supersaints.)

This plan has a lot of merit. I can see a way that makes it fallable, but on the whole I support it.

[Sarcastro]

Incog lynch is a poor lynch.

Wishy-washy non-committal follow-what-the-town's-majority-seems-to-think q21 is much better.

Vote: q21

Why is Incognito a poor lynch?

Changing your mind does not make you non-committal. Refusing to commit to a position makes you non-committal.

While Sarcastro and I have this saddening habit of never being active in the same games at the same times, we are distinct entities.

<3 Ether.

Could you clarify what you said about supersaints and their hammerers being immune to the encryptor? I can see why supersaints would be (it would be sort of obvious that they're supersaints when they're lynched), but why would their hammerers be?

In any case, voting on who should hammer people is definitely a good idea.

[q21]

You are a supersaint. If you are lynched at any point in the game, the person who casts the final vote on you will also die.

You are an encryptor. At one point in the game, you may choose to permanently hide the role/alignment of a lynched player, by sending me the order to do so at any time before they are lynched. Further, as long as you are alive, the mafia can freely daytalk.

If a supersaint is lynched the scum can try to hide it all they like, but we'd know as the hammer vote would die too.

The encryptor can only hide lynch results. The hammer vote would be killed by the supersaint, not lynched, therefore we'd get their CF result too.

So, in essence I like Ether's plan.

[Marmalade]

unvote, vote: Dave

Fos: Babygirl

Of all those on the incognito wagon, his and babygirl's votes strike me as the most suspicious and opportunistic. Don't get me wrong -- I think the incog wagon is worth pursuing, but the fact Dave said

nothing

and just voted makes me feel like he is just jumping on the bandwagon.

[mr. incrediball]

hm... well, ingognito's strange fetish for OMGUS seems enough to consider him worthy of a lynch. especially on day 1.

vote incognito

[JDodge]

Incog lynch is a poor lynch.

Wishy-washy non-committal follow-what-the-town's-majority-seems-to-think q21 is much better.

Vote: q21

Why is Incognito a poor lynch?

Changing your mind does not make you non-committal. Refusing to commit to a position makes you non-committal.

In my eyes, suddenly changing a stance you seemed firm in would definitely class as "non-committal". But I suppose if we're living in

backwards land

, I see your point.

Incog is a poor lynch because there is no substantial enough reason for an Incog lynch. Plus this seems like play I would expect from Incog.

[q21]

I did what you said I should (read some of PYP 2) and because of that I agreed with you (that daytalk can hurt the scum) and that is substantial reason for a lynch?

[Inquisitor JL]

sorry I haven't turned up yet, I didn't realise it had started - honest

At the moment incognito seems scummiest to me

He has made odd comments about the mafia roles and seems to have mastered OMGUS to a whole new level so...

FoS incognito

I haven't been in a large game before but L-2 seems risky to me in a game this large

[armlx]

I agree with Jdodge on the whole wishy washy vig supporting junk.

Vote q21

.

FOS everyone else who supported a vig

Agree with Ether's plan. Incognito I'm not sure on. Also agree Babygirl and Dave were opportunistic, though I'm not sure how telling that is right now.

[Dave]

unvote, vote: Dave

Fos: Babygirl

Of all those on the incognito wagon, his and babygirl's votes strike me as the most suspicious and opportunistic. Don't get me wrong -- I think the incog wagon is worth pursuing, but the fact Dave said

nothing

and just voted makes me feel like he is just jumping on the bandwagon.

My apologies, I read through the thread, and definitely found Incognito suspicious. Take post 72 for example, I totally disagree with his claim that it doesnt matter what power roles the scum get. Not caring as to the power roles of scum, suggests he has no care for the town, thus making me think he is scum. My votes stands.

[ashmite84]

My apologies, I read through the thread, and definitely found Incognito suspicious. Take post 72 for example, I totally disagree with his claim that it doesnt matter what power roles the scum get. Not caring as to the power roles of scum, suggests he has no care for the town, thus making me think he is scum. My votes stands.

QFT.

vote: incognito

[ashmite84]

EBWOP:

Sorry,

unvote.

vote: incognito

[Patrick]

Votecount

starkmoon (1) -- Coron
Incognito (8) -- Ether, Sarcastro, q21, Mellowed Man, babygirl86, Dave, mr. incrediball, ashmite84
q21 (3) -- scotmany12, JDodge, armlx
Coron (1) -- Incognito
Ether (1) -- Elmo
Dave (1) -- Marmalade

Not voting: starkmoon, Inquisitor JL, Flameaxe
18 alive, 10 to lynch.

[scotmany12]

I would much rather prefer a q21 lynch, but I can't say that I will be displeased with an incog lynch.

[q21]

Same reason as JDodge or armlx, scotmany12 or a something else I haven't tried to explain 3 times.