Mini 584: Sudo_Nym Presents- Over!

[ZeekLTK]

iceman put a 2nd vote on Cake saying "let's stir the pot a little". So I said:

Let's stir the pot a lot.

unvote; vote: CaptainCake

Then the game really wasn't moving so I (jokingly, especially considering how I cast my vote with "let's stir the pot a lot") said:

Are we going to lynch ScumCake or what?

Someone asked "why?" so I said:

Why not? Because he's your scumbuddy?

Obviously this wasn't that serious either.

Then someone (ice) tried to say I "rushed a lynch" on someone and I answered that post with:

Now, as for why I'm voting Zeek: He's rushed a lynch on Cake for no solid reason, which gives off scum vibes.

First, I never "rushed a lynch"; he's only got 3 votes.

Second, trying to lynch Cake would only be scummy if he were town. We don't know that he's town. If he is scum, then how am I scummy for pushing for the lynch of scum?

If you are trying to say you know he's town then you must be mafia, because only the mafia know who the townies are at this point.

Basically wondering why I'm "scummy", pointing out that the lynch was never rushed (one comment was blown out of proportion), and then pointing out that Cake COULD be scum and if he was, lynching him would be a good thing (does anyone dispute this?).

Someone (ice I think) questioned that post so I somewhat further explained/simplified it:

How does it not make sense? You said it's scummy of me to want him lynched. But how is it scummy if he turns out to be a mafia member?

Then Cake said pretty much the exact same thing, so I didn't bother to respond because I'd already addressed it.

-------

So... we've gathered a good bit of info here:

iceman... there's the whole "only vote/FoS after TSPN calls him out (3 times now)" thing.

FairieLord... continually pushing suspicion on me, even though he won't vote for it, by saying I "rushed a lynch" (and continually saying that), which is false (one comment + 2 *unvotes* != rushed lynch).

TDC and Nanosauromo... both pretty much came out of nowhere to cast a bandwagon 4th and 5th vote on me for very weak reasoning

[FaerieLord]

My case on you isn't based solely one your comment. That's actually one of your weaker points, my case is about your over defensiveness.

Besides, look at these

Nice scummy OMGUS vote from Cake.

Second, trying to lynch Cake would only be scummy if he were town. We don't know that he's town. If he is scum, then how am I scummy for pushing for the lynch of scum?

You said it's scummy of me to want him lynched. But how is it scummy if he turns out to be a mafia member?

I see those as trying to lynch Cake. Stop trying to back out of it saying "I'm not trying to rush it."

Your case against him was "Hey, if we kill him and he turns up scum, I'm not scummy right?" which is an awful argument, because scum OFTEN bandwagon their teammates to 1)Distance 2) Gain pro-town points.

So yeah.

Now, read this

Also I love the votes against me:

One because I wasn't online the day the roles were sent out and thus was the last to confirm

One OMGUS

One "chainsaw defense" of the guy who cast the OMGUS

That is called over reaction. You said it yourself. 3 votes are nothing, so why are you fussing like hell when there are three people voting you?

Also, FaerieLord is also probably scum. He's just "FoSing" to support/push the bandwagon against a pro-town player, but he doesn't want to commit a vote so that he won't be held accountable for it later.

Now this is a good example of OMGUS here, which you indicated above is scummy, while doing your over reaction.

Notice my comment was during the random stage AND I never made a case against him (or really pushed it that hard). It's one comment taken way too far by a couple of people. Who stands to benefit by taking it so far? Scum.

Look at the first three posts I quoted from you. Those are three comments, not one.

And yes, you never made a case. Which is why you pressuring Cake makes all that much scummy.

Also, do you sincerely want me to put you in lynch range? My vote will put you at -1. -1 = you die before you can claim and put up a good defense. If you really want me to jive that way, I will.

[TDC]

Basically wondering why I'm "scummy", pointing out that the lynch was never rushed (one comment was blown out of proportion), and then pointing out that Cake COULD be scum and if he was, lynching him would be a good thing (does anyone dispute this?).

Sure, a scum lynch is always good. The point is that you didn't bring on any evidence at all to suggest that he is indeed scum. This is what made people think you want to lynch to find out whether he is scum.
Using your rationale, nobody is ever going to be scummy for voting somebody, unless that somebody is confirmed town.

Besides: Is it possible that there are two scum groups in this game? In that case your reasoning makes even less sense: If Cake was lynched and turned up scum, then you might just be in the other scum group.


Why did it take you so long to claim your "can we lynch him now?"-comment was a joke?

I support a ZeekLTK claim. It'll at least get the life back into this thread. And he's still in lynch distance

I don't think we need a claim from Zeek yet. He's not in danger of being lynched right now, is he? (And obviously anybody quicklynching him without letting him claim would be under much fire tomorrow.)
Why do you want him to claim?

[TDC]

EBWOP: Zeek is on L-3 not L-2, he had 4 votes at the last vote count +Nanosauromo -Johoohno.

[Johoohno]

@ MafiaSSK: You're still voting Nanosauromo, any reason for that?

[MafiaSSK]

@ MafiaSSK: You're still voting Nanosauromo, any reason for that?

I've just forgotten to

Unvote

[FaerieLord]

@TDC. My bad, I thought he was at -2

Vote ZeekLTK

Now he is.

Also, I want him to claim because 1)It would rejuvinate the thread, though that can be forgotten now since posts have started again 2)Most of the people here think he is scum, or at least very scummy 3)It's the only way we can get something new out of him

Also, not to speculate on the setup, but I doubt there are two mafia groups. At worst its a mafia group and an sk, but 2 mafia groups sounds like too much

But while we're at it.

MafiaSSK, who do you think is scummy and why? You're not posting any content, just lurking in plain sight. How about starting now? IGMEOY

[Marmalade]

I'd like to know why Zeek, in his seeming re-read of the thread, ignored my post which accused him of merely attacking all those who attacked him. Since this is a significant reason why I suspect him, I'm concerned that he'd just ignore this.

[ZeekLTK]

I'd like to know why Zeek, in his seeming re-read of the thread, ignored my post which accused him of merely attacking all those who attacked him. Since this is a significant reason why I suspect him, I'm concerned that he'd just ignore this.

That's what I always do when I'm town, ask TSPN.

[Marmalade]

I'd like to know why Zeek, in his seeming re-read of the thread, ignored my post which accused him of merely attacking all those who attacked him. Since this is a significant reason why I suspect him, I'm concerned that he'd just ignore this.

That's what I always do when I'm town, ask TSPN.

1. Why didn't you think to address it? It sounds like you were trying to avoid the points you couldn't defend.
2. Saying "I always do this as town" is pretty inconclusive meta. For this to be balanced,

we need to know if you do the same as scum, or differently.

[FaerieLord]

That's what I always do when I'm town, ask TSPN.

That is not redeeming in my books, considering TSPN is like my third highest suspect right now.

Also, why do you feel you need to attack the people. Is everyone that thinks you are scummy, scum?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?

Seriously?

Context is everything. On Page 2 of Day 1, I'd have no problem with that. On Page 27 of Day 4, I'd want a little more explanation.

I can testify that Zeek is OMGUSy as town, but since he's clearly aware of it, I'm not going to give you a pass for that. But since the wagon is based on one obviously only half-serious statement, I've no particular interest in hopping on it.

Anyway, this is why faerielord is a better choice for lynch.

1. Blatant, blatant, rolefishing. Claim at L-2? Really?
2. Pushing the zeek lynch based on the "rushing" argument. Seriously, did anyone, including zeek, really think that saying "let's lynch cake" would speed anything up? I hope not.
3. If you think zeek and me are scumbuddies, just come out and say so. Is that the game you think we're playing? Otherwise, think it through. My meta is still valid if we're on different teams, or both town.

Unvote, vote faerielord.

[TDC]

Also, I want him to claim because 1)It would rejuvinate the thread, though that can be forgotten now since posts have started again 2)Most of the people here think he is scum, or at least very scummy 3)It's the only way we can get something new out of him

1) Ironically, that's what he says about his "lynch cake"-comment as well.
2) Do they? He has 5 votes but quite frankly, I have no idea who the other two people could be to form a lynch, who do you have in mind?
3) Just that "something new" is going to be his role, and that's not really what we want to know before it's really almost too late (see 2)).

I still don't see the purpose and join TSPN in calling it fishing.

Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?

Seriously?

Context is everything. On Page 2 of Day 1, I'd have no problem with that. On Page 27 of Day 4, I'd want a little more explanation.

Fair enough, although I have no idea why you'd place Page 5 of this thread nearer to "Page 27 of Day 4" than "Page 2 of Day 1".

[icemanE]

Fair enough, although I have no idea why you'd place Page 5 of this thread nearer to "Page 27 of Day 4" than "Page 2 of Day 1".

Haha

[Sudo_Nym]

ZeekLTK 5

-

CaptainCake, icemanE, TDC, Nanosauromo, FaerieLord

Greasy Spot 1-

Marmalade

icemanE 1-

ZeekLTK

FaerieLord 1-

TheSweatpantsNinja

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for a lynch.

In other news, Lowell will be replacing Natirasha effective immediately.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Fair enough, although I have no idea why you'd place Page 5 of this thread nearer to "Page 27 of Day 4" than "Page 2 of Day 1".

No, I wouldn't vote for you or find it terribly suspicious if you said something like that on page 5 either.

[TDC]

Ah, okay.. misunderstood you then.

[FaerieLord]

Pushing the zeek lynch based on the "rushing" argument. Seriously, did anyone, including zeek, really think that saying "let's lynch cake" would speed anything up? I hope not.

Please read my posts. Thank you.

A small primer on my argument

1)Rushing thing
2)Bad logic when it comes to lynching
3)Over Defensiveness
4)OMGUS

It's all on this page. Post #126.

Read.

1. Blatant, blatant, rolefishing. Claim at L-2? Really?

Tell me what to do next then. And when is the best time, in your opinion to claim.

Do they? He has 5 votes but quite frankly, I have no idea who the other two people could be to form a lynch, who do you have in mind?

Johoohno could be one, who relegated his vote to a fos. And tell me, how many of the active people (read: active) don't find Zeek scummy? Just TSPN. Even Marmalade has expressed suspicion.

3. If you think zeek and me are scumbuddies, just come out and say so. Is that the game you think we're playing? Otherwise, think it through. My meta is still valid if we're on different teams, or both town.

My post is just above yours. Read it.

Also, I guess Zeek isn't the only OMGUSer here.

I still don't see the purpose and join TSPN in calling it fishing.

Again, please tell me what the next move should be.

[Lowell]

Hi folks. I'm here. Will read by tomorrow.

[TDC]

Johoohno could be one, who relegated his vote to a fos. And tell me, how many of the active people (read: active) don't find Zeek scummy? Just TSPN. Even Marmalade has expressed suspicion.

I see your point, but neither expressed any will to lynch him, did they? In fact Marmalade has his vote sitting on Greasy Spot.
You usually call for a role claim if someone is on L-1 and someone else has expressed his will to hammer, don't you?

Again, please tell me what the next move should be.

I'd say finding out what the others think about the issue.
Here for example is a list of everyone who hasn't said anything about Zeek at all:
Lowell (this is obvious)
MafiaSSK (in fact he hasn't said much about anything)
Rage (even less content from him)

These have posted about Zeek in the beginning but kind of disappeared:
CaptainCake (who I btw still want to reply to my question a few pages back)
Greasy Spot

[TDC]

EBWOP:
That's what I get for reading two threads at once, strike Rage off that list, he's in the other game ..

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Faerielord, I find your first point to be inaccurate or a null-tell, your third to be one of the most scummy scumtells (by which I mean I find people scummy when they use it, because its weak weak weak), and your fourth, unfortunately, to be a zeektell.

Now, your second one, I'm not entirely clear on. What, exactly, is the bad logic?

And, um, you aren't voting for me, so its not OMGUS? Even if that was actually a good defense, its not true.

Finally, L-1 with someone willing to hammer is a reasonable time to call for a claim. L-2 is fishing.

[FaerieLord]

I see your point, but neither expressed any will to lynch him, did they? In fact Marmalade has his vote sitting on Greasy Spot.
You usually call for a role claim if someone is on L-1 and someone else has expressed his will to hammer, don't you?

I disagree. -1 is a little too late for claiming, since someone could hammer before role discussion could be made. And sometimes, scum will want to go 1 for 1 (I'd think about doing it if he claimed vig)
So yes, maybe we can wait for the rest to come, but -2 is, IMO, the best time to claim.

Faerielord, I find your first point to be inaccurate or a null-tell, your third to be one of the most scummy scumtells (by which I mean I find people scummy when they use it, because its weak weak weak), and your fourth, unfortunately, to be a zeektell.

Now, your second one, I'm not entirely clear on. What, exactly, is the bad logic?

The first one is actually one of the weakest points in my argument. It's not something I'd vote someone for doing.
My second one is his posts saying "If we lynch cake, and he turns up scum, then I am not scummy right?" which is awful
The third one...Let's just agree to disagree. It is a scum tell in my opinion.
The fourth one. Metaing is not reliable in my opinion. Just because he plays scummily as town, it doesn't mean he doesn't play scummily as scum. And that is a scummy action

And, um, you aren't voting for me, so its not OMGUS? Even if that was actually a good defense, its not true.

Who said OMGus had to have votes involved. It's just attacking someone for attacking you. Voting is just a formality. One I only use if I'm more than 85% sure of my vote.

Finally, L-1 with someone willing to hammer is a reasonable time to call for a claim. L-2 is fishing.

As said above, I disagree

I still support his claim, but I'm at least happy that there are people that disagree.

If not a claim yet, I'd be happy with a concordet list from ZeekLTK (Him listing people from scummiest to towniest with reasoning if possible).

[TDC]

I see your point, but neither expressed any will to lynch him, did they? In fact Marmalade has his vote sitting on Greasy Spot.
You usually call for a role claim if someone is on L-1 and someone else has expressed his will to hammer, don't you?

I disagree. -1 is a little too late for claiming, since someone could hammer before role discussion could be made. And sometimes, scum will want to go 1 for 1 (I'd think about doing it if he claimed vig)
So yes, maybe we can wait for the rest to come, but -2 is, IMO, the best time to claim.

Uhm, but if he claimed vig, then.. he already claimed.
How is scum going to know he's a vig if he hasn't claimed?

[TDC]

EBWOP: It seems I'm a bit slow today, and I now get your point, it is not that waiting for him to claim until L-1 is dangerous, but that his claim might be dangerous for him IF he is at L-1 at the time he claims, right?