Dynamite Stick Mafia! GAME OVER

[Erg0]

Why do you disagree with Yos' heavy attack on lurkers?

I presume that we're going to go with Adel's plan for today? If so, a reminder that anybody who strikes a light without town consensus can expect a speedy demise.

[Elmo]

I'll dynamite the next person who votes me.

What is the purpose of this post?

Claus: I don't have a lot yet, I was mostly waiting for people to stop being dumb. I don't really see Surye as scum right now, I feel slightly bad about Marmalade and CES.. also a little bit about Adel, although I'm not sure if that's because she's being Adel . I'd support Adel killing off anyone who strikes a light, and Yos' idea of having suspicious person #1 strike a light and then be immediately attacked by #2. I do figure that 90% of the talk beyond "don't be stupid guise" is superfluous right now. I happen to consider striking a light early both anti-town and a small towntell, though it's probably not really relevant. I don't really know about Yos' comment on three people; I'd lean towards it being null, because three seems quite low for a game of this size, and I can perfectly see him making a slip of the tongue. I do think Yos is right about lurking being especially harmful in this game.

Quag: Why did you endorse Adel's post about LML?
Skruffs: Why is Sarc scum?
Kuribo: If you had to dayvig someone right now, who would it be?

Vote

:

Marmalade

.

[Mr Stoofer]

ALIGHT

--

Deadline will be ~6th May.

[Yosarian2]

Claus: Exactally why is a "heavy attack on lurkers" a scumtell? I think it's very likely at least some of the scum are lurking hardcore, especally considering how many people haven't really said anything of note yet this game. In fact, I just noticed Armlx hasn't even posted once, and a lot of other people have nothing but filler posts or striking a light day 1 for no reason.

[Yosarian2]

I have a question for Adel based on one of her posts today, but I suppose it should wait until we find out Ooba's alignment.

Ok, before we got all caught up in the stratagy discussion after the LML kill, I had noticed some really odd behavior on Adel's part with that lynch.

First, when LML asked if he should kill oobo right away, she encouraged him to do so.

Someone, anyone, talk me out of dynamiting him this second.

no.

Then, she accused him of bluffing (which is often a way of pushing someone to do something, is ) while suggesting that she was fine with him and ooba dying.

I suspect that LML may be bluffing.

I now endorse ooba blowing up LML or surye

But then, after LML blew up ooba, she said this:

Assuming I am alive tomorrow, I will kill myself and the first person to strike a light without town consensus.

If I am not alive tomorrow, I think that quagmire should kill the first person to strike a light without town consensus.

As LML just demonstrated, intelligence and the ability to communicate effectively do not effectively hedge against the town's tendency to self-destruct. At the very least LML should have stalled so we could get more information from this day before we lose another to a NK.

tag fixed -- Stoofer

Which is a bizzare post, because A, after LML did exactally what she pressured him to do, she suddenly seems to think it was a bad idea, and B, that post really makes me feel like Adel already knew at this point that it was a mislynch, that she already knew both LML and ooba were town. Which is suspicious, since Adel was really pushing the ooba lynch all day.

Now, this was what I wanted to ask her right after the lynch; at that point, I thought she was quite suspicious. Her later behavior that day (especally the whole "I promise to kill the first person who strikes a light" deal) looks less like something a scum would do, so I'm not as sure anymore, but I still would like an explination for that series of events.

[kuribo]

Kuribo: If you had to dayvig someone right now, who would it be?

It's a tossup between Claus and Skruffs.

Skruffs because of the way he entered the game, and then immediately went on the defensive when he was called out on it. (Calling it "propaganda")

Claus for the simple fact that A) Yos2 is right that scum can easily lurk in this game, and thus may be doing exactly that, and B) I've never liked it when people ask others to "post who is most scummy." Why? Lots of reasons--- if those people turn up town, it helps absolve blame; It gives the scum an idea of who to bandwagon, and it helps them avoid NK'ing people who are suspicious.

I don't think Adel is scum--- there'd be too much danger that someone would call her bluff and strike a light. If she didn't follow through on her threat, she'd be (rightly) dynamited.

[Adel]

vote:yos2

I will kill the first person who strikes a light without town consensus

I'm still linking yos2 to skruffs.

yos2 asked for an explanation: LML's targeting of ooba convinced me that he was town.

[Yosarian2]

That dosn't really answer my question at all, Adel. Sure, LML wouldn't make that kill as scum. But the odd thing was that you seemed to know OOBA was town, even though you'd been attacking him all day; you seemed to know LML's kill was a mistake even though you were pushing him to do it. Could you explain that?

[Claus]

B) I've never liked it when people ask others to "post who is most scummy." Why? Lots of reasons--- if those people turn up town, it helps absolve blame; It gives the scum an idea of who to bandwagon, and it helps them avoid NK'ing people who are suspicious.

Well. You'll have to deal with it in my case. My scumhunting technique revolves around getting people to tell who they think should be lynched, and noting down the crossreferences.

If you think we shouldn't be pointing fingers, then maybe better not to vote at all, heh?

Yos, Erg0, others: I'll answer your questions later - I just wanted to address this particular point because I found it particularly bizarre.

[Adel]

That dosn't really answer my question at all, Adel. Sure, LML wouldn't make that kill as scum. But the odd thing was that you seemed to know OOBA was town, even though you'd been attacking him all day; you seemed to know LML's kill was a mistake even though you were pushing him to do it. Could you explain that?

Once LML targeted ooba I felt like he was a total chode, like a self hammering townie. I can see that I put LML in a "can't win" posistion, but he is a grown-up and I falsely expected that he could deal with it, or at least draw a bunch of positions from people. Instead he threw an tantrum and prematuraly killed ooba, and then didn't even take the time to give us any insight from a player with a proven-by-death alignment.

I was agnostic of ooba's alignment, feeling that his odds of being scum were probably average. ~15% probably, perhaps as high as 20%. I assumed a move as boneheaded as LML's wouldn't result in dead scum.

If ooba was scum wouldn't you be linking me to ooba as having bussed him?

[Adel]

as for me attacking oobs, good luck finding a game where I didn't attack a newbie during day 1 and day 2 to get a read off of them.

[kuribo]

If you think we shouldn't be pointing fingers, then maybe better not to vote at all, heh?

Don't try to reduce my argument to something so absurd.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

I'll dynamite the next person who votes me.

What is the purpose of this post?

There wasn't any, as I said before.

[elvis_knits]

vote CES

I voted him d1 and still feel he's scummy for this stuff:

I'm actually fine with Greasy Spot DYNAMITING Blazerunner. Or someone else DYNAMITING Blazrunner. As long as it's not me, ofcourse.

I'll dynamite the next person who votes me.

It's just too reckless, and encourages others to do stupid things.

I also am suspicious of pickem. He struck a light D2, saying:

STRIKE A LIGHT

Hello also.

Why?

why not?

it's now or later. and if i do it now i can act later instead of having to do this and waste time....

So this seems like he really wants to dynamite somebody. Which, okay, I can believe. But then he questions ooba, acting like it would be ludicrous for anyone to want to blow themselves up:

i'd rather not dynamite anyone seeing as i'm town ..

vote: ooba

Why? I'd rather not be chosen to kill someone as I know its a wasted cardflip. However if the town decides i should be the one dynamiting or blown up, I'd do it.

you'd blow yourself up???

It's like he can't believe ooba would want to blow himself up. If pickem really struck a light because he intended to blow himself up, I don't think it would be so hard for him to believe someone else would want to. Makes me think pickem never intended to blow himself up.

I'm also suspicious of skruffs for the stuff I posted yesterday -- trying to say lurkers can't be scum (which is false), and coincidentally including himself in that group.

[Marmalade]

I need to re-read the combined Adel/Skruffs attack on Yos, although, to be honest, I find the Yos hate pretty uninteresting.

I'm slightly confused about the way Adel says that Yos is scum for suggesting a 3 scum group, but then

immediately after

agrees that a 3 scum group is likely. Huh?

(I think Adel is prob town though.)

Skruffs, stop acting foolish. Asking whether or not LML killed Ooba had nothing to do with whether or not I want day to end. Your logic is nonsense. Why would I feel the need to "encourage further stimulation"? What does that even mean?

Agreed. I get the feeling Skruffs is bringing up semantic/irrelevant stuff in order to derail the actual discussion.

I like elvis_knits, by the way. Not in that way, though.

DGB's death makes me much more suspicious of newer players than normal.

Why?

Not sure I like erg0...

Surye is definitely bringing the token townishness up to this point, though offering to blow himself up detracts from this slightly.

Explain?

I agree with everything else in his post (regarding not agreeing with Skruffs, and that Adel's plan is good.)

If so, a reminder that anybody who strikes a light without town consensus can expect a speedy demise.

The first thing I thought here was that Erg0 was leading his army of n00b scum, so that they didn't strike a light.

Elmo: why are you voting for me? (I really dislike Elmo's post by the way).

I like elvis_knits and Adel. I don't like Surye (his posts feel contrived to me), Skruffs or Elmo. I find the Yos hate uninteresting.

vote: Elmo

[Elmo]

Can't remember. Why don't you like me, apart from the lack of posting? What don't you like about that post?

[Yosarian2]

Once LML targeted ooba I felt like he was a total chode, like a self hammering townie. I can see that I put LML in a "can't win" posistion, but he is a grown-up and I falsely expected that he could deal with it, or at least draw a bunch of positions from people. Instead he threw an tantrum and prematuraly killed ooba, and then didn't even take the time to give us any insight from a player with a proven-by-death alignment.

But that was what he said he was going to do, he said he was going to dynimate ooba "this second", and you said you didn't have a problem with that. I donno, the whole things just feelt like you trying to distance yourself from something you basically helped orcistrate, and to do it before a townie would know that it was the wrong decision..

If ooba was scum wouldn't you be linking me to ooba as having bussed him?

No, why would I do that? Attacking a scum is not a scumtell unless it's done in a way that gives you a specific reason to think it's bussing; anyone who think it is is, well, to reference a MD discussion we had a while back, on the wrong side of the WIFOM curve.

Anyway, I'm going to let this go for now, because I don't think it's that likely a scum would promise to kill the first person to strike a light (it's be a really high risk gambit, to say the least), but I still did want to note it while it was fresh in my mind.

I'm going to go back and see if I can figure out which lurker looks scummiest; there are quite a few lurkers to choose from, probably at least some of them are scum, and we certanly need to apply some pressure and hear from some of them.

[Yosarian2]

So many people are lurking, I might as well make a full lurker list.

Lurker List:

armlx: Hasn't posted yet this game.

mod, could you please prod him?

Flameaxe: Not really a lurker since he's posted 7 times, but he hasn't really posted much content. Day 1, he struck a light and that was about it; and day 2, he quoted one line of Adel's stratagy and agred with it, then made an odd post abot how "Adel's plan needs more bussing between him and quag". So no real content yet.
PokerFace: Hasn't posted in 5 days. Decent content when he posted, though, made some good questions for CES.
Skitzer: Has only posted twice. Both had a little stratagy content, but nothing else.
Surye: Hasn't posted in 4 days. Needs to say who he's suspicious of.
UltimaAvalon: The only post he made was:

STRIKE A LIGHT
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath
deathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeathdeath

And then and edit by way of post to fix his formatting errors and to actually strike a light. So not only has he contribued less content then anyone other then Armlx, he also struck a light day 1 for absolutly no reason. Seems like a good place to start.

vote:UltimaAvelon

[Skruffs]

Why do you disagree with Yos' heavy attack on lurkers?

I presume that we're going to go with Adel's plan for today? If so, a reminder that anybody who strikes a light without town consensus can expect a speedy demise.

This is ridiculous - if a mafia lights a match, and kills someone preemptively, we're minus a mafia, which is good. Why would they do that? IF a mafiate lights a mathc, they probably are not going to use it. If a townie lights a match, they are only hurting town.

Trying to get people who light matches to be killed off by other townies is SCUMMY.

[Skruffs]

Kuribo: If you had to dayvig someone right now, who would it be?

It's a tossup between Claus and Skruffs.

Skruffs because of the way he entered the game, and then immediately went on the defensive when he was called out on it. (Calling it "propaganda")

Claus for the simple fact that A) Yos2 is right that scum can easily lurk in this game, and thus may be doing exactly that, and B) I've never liked it when people ask others to "post who is most scummy." Why? Lots of reasons--- if those people turn up town, it helps absolve blame; It gives the scum an idea of who to bandwagon, and it helps them avoid NK'ing people who are suspicious.

I don't think Adel is scum--- there'd be too much danger that someone would call her bluff and strike a light. If she didn't follow through on her threat, she'd be (rightly) dynamited.

I don't remember getting defensive - I remember calling people out on stuff and aptly defending my statements. If that is scummy, somehow, I will keep that in mind when people start accusing you.

WHy would ADel-scum NOT potentially sacrifice herself at the expense of getting a string of townies to sacrifice themselves in killing other townies?

For that matter, why wouldn't mafia have killed Adel last night, since so many seem to think of her as town? With her gone, we'd have to find a new enforcer.

Elmo, your last post ALSO is scummy.

Vote : CES

I think that's a bad bluff and I'm calling you on it.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs, stop acting foolish. Asking whether or not LML killed Ooba had nothing to do with whether or not I want day to end. Your logic is nonsense. Why would I feel the need to "encourage further stimulation"? What does that even mean?

Agreed. I get the feeling Skruffs is bringing up semantic/irrelevant stuff in order to derail the actual discussion.

Which part of the actual discussion was I derailing?

Also:
Elvis_knits mentioned something that I didn't get a chance to talk about yesterday:

Elvis_knits: I like your resentment of my theory. Tells me you're nervous I might be right; you didn't contradict the theory, only attacked my motivation for bringing it up.

If I thought your theory was right I wouldn't have attacked you. Maybe mafia sent in a kill without talking to all members? Just because a mafia member hasn't posted in the thread, or posted on MS, or been V/LA does not excuse them from being mafia. Maybe before they went away for a day they told their team to go ahead without them for a kill? I think your theory would only hold up if there was a lone mafia member or SK.

I didn't realize that the mafia could day talk until after her post - I was going to ask how they would have had a chance, because it didn't say that hte game started with the scum being able to talk; etc etc, but it does turn out that mafia can day talk. Has that been addressed, in game?

[elvis_knits]

Where did I say "day talk"?

Usually mafia talk before a game starts, right? Even in day start, they talk during confirmation phase, right? That is what I was referring to.

[Skruffs]

The context of what you said was that mafia would talk to each other shortly before the explosion happened; making plans for the night talk, in reference to an earlier statement that mafia would be more inclined to be active at the start of hte game because their partners would be discussing things with them and thus they would know about the game before the average joe might.

[Adel]

WHy would ADel-scum NOT potentially sacrifice herself at the expense of getting a string of townies to sacrifice themselves in killing other townies?

For that matter, why wouldn't mafia have killed Adel last night, since so many seem to think of her as town? With her gone, we'd have to find a new enforcer.

unvote, vote:Skruffs

I still link skruffs to yos2

quagmire is my replacement as enforcer

[elvis_knits]

The context of what you said was that mafia would talk to each other shortly before the explosion happened; making plans for the night talk, in reference to an earlier statement that mafia would be more inclined to be active at the start of hte game because their partners would be discussing things with them and thus they would know about the game before the average joe might.

You're reading into my post stuff that isn't there.