Mini 584: Sudo_Nym Presents- Over!


User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1819
Joined: October 15, 2007

Post Post #225 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:41 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

mafiassk wrote: Isn’t really pursuing any scum, just voting MafiaSSK for lurking.
Voting people for lurking is pursuing scum, unless you're in favor of having lurkers survive until endgame without us having any clue of their alignment.

As for zeek, he's playing pretty much identical to the last game that I played with him that he was town, and to be honest, he was a lot more sketchy then. So I'm not saying he's town, but I don't see the case on him as having much merit. Right now, I don't consider him to be more likely scum than anyone else.
User avatar
FaerieLord
FaerieLord
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
FaerieLord
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1599
Joined: March 23, 2007
Location: In an Octupus' Garden

Post Post #226 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:26 am

Post by FaerieLord »

Joh wrote:@ ThesweatpantsNinja: Isn’t really pursuing any scum, just voting MafiaSSK for lurking.
Strange. Why are you voting him then?
Joh wrote:@ FaerieLord: I agree with your case on Zeek (especially with the over defensive part), but I don’t agree with your repeated call for his role claim. A day one claim is not good at all, in my opinion. Smells role fishing to me.
Yeah, let's lynch him before he claims! Read, I was pushing for the claim because I thought he was at -2. And I think -2 is the right time to claim, mostly if people express suspicion on your wagon.

Your post was a whole lot of nothing

@TSPN. Having been reading 533, I agree. It is slightly meta. But you have to admit, Zeek contributed more there than he has here. He has some good logic running about Day 1. He found loops and attacked diligently, while here, his cases have been awful.
(1:07:08 AM) Xdaamno: alcohol
(1:07:11 AM) Xdaamno: solves this problem
(1:07:13 AM) Xdaamno: woohoo
User avatar
Johoohno
Johoohno
He
16777215 km/h
User avatar
User avatar
Johoohno
He
16777215 km/h
16777215 km/h
Posts: 1166
Joined: October 22, 2007
Pronoun: He
Location: Sweden

Post Post #227 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:46 am

Post by Johoohno »

ThesweatpantsNinja wrote:Voting people for lurking is pursuing scum, unless you're in favor of having lurkers survive until endgame without us having any clue of their alignment.
Nope, it’s pursuing lurkers. And lurkers might be scums or townies. And since there are more townies than scums, there will probably be more townies than scums among the lurkers, which would lead to a scum win using your strategy.
FaerieLord wrote:
Joh wrote:@ ThesweatpantsNinja: Isn’t really pursuing any scum, just voting MafiaSSK for lurking.
Strange. Why are you voting him then?
Johohno (post 224) wrote:
@ MafiaSSK:
Protects IcemanE (62), which makes me wonder if you are scum buddies. Your questions on scum buddying (218) kind of strengthens my view of MafiaSSK as a newbie scum. I want you to post more content, do an in-thread write up of your suspicions for instance. If you feel uncertain of the game I also recommend you to read at least one other finished game through (there are examples in my signature, or you could take the one ZeekLTK, TSPN and Lowell were in, or you could pick one random mini).
FaerieLord wrote:
Joh wrote:@ FaerieLord: I agree with your case on Zeek (especially with the over defensive part), but I don’t agree with your repeated call for his role claim. A day one claim is not good at all, in my opinion. Smells role fishing to me.
Yeah, let's lynch him before he claims! Read, I was pushing for the claim because I thought he was at -2. And I think -2 is the right time to claim, mostly if people express suspicion on your wagon.
Perhaps I’m just inexperienced, but I’ve never witnessed a town-favourable-day-one-claim. I believe that the scum would get more useful information from a claim, during D1, than the town.
FaerieLord wrote:Your post was a whole lot of nothing
Is your aggression towards my post useful for the town?
User avatar
FaerieLord
FaerieLord
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
FaerieLord
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1599
Joined: March 23, 2007
Location: In an Octupus' Garden

Post Post #228 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:18 am

Post by FaerieLord »

@Johoohno.

About MafiaSSK: Precisely, what did you add apart from "You're lurking. Contribute." Please tell me, because that is all I see from your suspicions (Apart from the speculation about buddy partners)

About lurkers: Your logic fails. Why? Because scum lurk more often. Scum lurk to avoid discussion. There is no reason why a townie would lurk. So it is more probable that a scum would lurk

About claims: Incorrect. Claim can determine if someone is scum or not (For example, most of the time, people claiming doctors are in fact townies. It's the other way round for roleblockers.) So yes, while a claim may help scum, it is still certainly beneficial towards town. Besides, the information scum gain in day one is little. It's not as if we are doing a massclaim.

About aggression: No, its just me being frustrated. I excuse myself
(1:07:08 AM) Xdaamno: alcohol
(1:07:11 AM) Xdaamno: solves this problem
(1:07:13 AM) Xdaamno: woohoo
User avatar
CaptainCake
CaptainCake
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
CaptainCake
Townie
Townie
Posts: 59
Joined: February 22, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post Post #229 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:43 am

Post by CaptainCake »

Really sorry about not posting when I said I would, thankfully I've got the time now and haven't been replaced yet. I'm rereading right now so I should have a post shortly.
Ca-Click Click, Booyea!
User avatar
CaptainCake
CaptainCake
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
CaptainCake
Townie
Townie
Posts: 59
Joined: February 22, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada

Post Post #230 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:27 pm

Post by CaptainCake »

For most of the game I was pretty much convinced of ZeekLTK being scum, mostly because of the poor arguments he's made against those that have attacked him. I don't feel the need to point out all of the poor posts he's made. He has however at this point more or less convinced me he is town. What has changed my oppinion on his most has been the consistency of his post, many times he's been attacked for where he's playing his votes and accusations yet he still remains consistent with them. I'd think that scum would change how they make their accusations and such to fit what everyone says to be protown. I could be wrong on this but I'm fairly certain ZeekLTK is town.

Now when looking at ZeekLTK as town my other suspicions and "huh?" moments fall in line with a few those that are voting Zeek, so lets take a look at those individuals shall we?

Nano - So much lurking it hurts, and comes out just to place a vote on Zeek then disappear again. Is there any reason for this not to make me suspicious?

FaerieLord - Seems to make a habit of trying to point out Zeek's poor logic and reasoning along with being fairly useless to contributing stuff to the game in general. Most of his posts seem to be a deadend, seems odd to me. Also there is the call for the roleclaim. In general seems scummy to me.

TDC - In general solid to the point posts without much in the way of contradictions or outright accusations. Not very much to say about TDC, most likely town.

Iceman - Nothing too outstanding for most of the game, seems pretty much protown. Then he says
With a thorough reread of the game it is apparent that, while Zeek is quite suspicious, there is not enough evidence stacked up against him to justify a lynch... yet, but there is a good deal of suspicious material. I would unvote Zeek but he is currently in no apparent danger of being lynched, and I frequently look at this board, so if he gets too close I will probably pull my vote off until something very solid materializes.
So the reason you aren't unvoting him is because you don't think anyone will hammer before you can remove your vote? I just don't get it... That seems like a bad reason to not unvote if you are planning on it anyways.

I think that conversation has been focused too much on Zeek for most of the game and personally I'd like to see a bit more pressure on a few other players (nano, iceman, faerielord and TSPN come to mind). It may be just a case of disliking FaerieLord's play style but thats where I feel I should relocate my vote to, so
unvote vote:FaerieLord


And before anyone asks, no I havent dropped all of my suspicions of Zeek but he does appear more town than a few others so I beleive I can do better things with my vote at the moment.
Ca-Click Click, Booyea!
User avatar
icemanE
icemanE
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
icemanE
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2361
Joined: March 31, 2008

Post Post #231 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:30 pm

Post by icemanE »

So the reason you aren't unvoting him is because you don't think anyone will hammer before you can remove your vote? I just don't get it... That seems like a bad reason to not unvote if you are planning on it anyways.
Yeah, more or less. There was no imminent threat whatsoever of a hammer, so there was no need to take my vote off him, and I want my vote to sit on the person I'm most suspicious of. Additionally, while I don't necessarily call for a Zeek lynch any longer, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to it.
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1819
Joined: October 15, 2007

Post Post #232 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:22 pm

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

faerielord wrote: About lurkers: Your logic fails. Why? Because scum lurk more often. Scum lurk to avoid discussion. There is no reason why a townie would lurk. So it is more probable that a scum would lurk
I don't entirely agree with this, but we can't come to any strong conclusions about lurkers. Therefore we need to pressure them, particularly in the early game, until they stop lurking, are replaced, or, if necessary, are lynched. You will not succeed in convincing me, johoohno, that pressuring lurkers day 1 is anti-town, particularly with the lack of another strong suspect.
User avatar
Sudo_Nym
Sudo_Nym
Pseudo Newbie
User avatar
User avatar
Sudo_Nym
Pseudo Newbie
Pseudo Newbie
Posts: 1144
Joined: March 12, 2007
Location: Washington

Post Post #233 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:07 pm

Post by Sudo_Nym »

ZeekLTK 4
-
icemanE, TDC, Nanosauromo, FaerieLord

mafiaSSK 2-
TheSweatpantsNinja, Johoohno

Greasy Spot 1-
Lowell

Lowell 1-
Greasy Spot

Nanosauromo 1-
ZeekLTK

FaerieLord 1-
CaptainCake


With 12 alive, 7 votes will lynch.
Last edited by Sudo_Nym on Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
User avatar
Johoohno
Johoohno
He
16777215 km/h
User avatar
User avatar
Johoohno
He
16777215 km/h
16777215 km/h
Posts: 1166
Joined: October 22, 2007
Pronoun: He
Location: Sweden

Post Post #234 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:35 pm

Post by Johoohno »

(Quick response:)

@ ThesweatpantsNinja:
I've never said it's anti-town (I dislike lurkers too), but I don't see it as scum hunting.
User avatar
FaerieLord
FaerieLord
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
FaerieLord
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1599
Joined: March 23, 2007
Location: In an Octupus' Garden

Post Post #235 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:03 pm

Post by FaerieLord »

I'm not going to even bother answering CaptianCake's answer. His attack on me is gut, and I really cannot defend my self against gut.
(1:07:08 AM) Xdaamno: alcohol
(1:07:11 AM) Xdaamno: solves this problem
(1:07:13 AM) Xdaamno: woohoo
User avatar
Greasy Spot
Greasy Spot
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Greasy Spot
Goon
Goon
Posts: 858
Joined: January 3, 2008
Location: On the floor

Post Post #236 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:54 am

Post by Greasy Spot »

Sudo_Nym wrote:
ZeekLTK 5
-
icemanE, TDC, Nanosauromo, FaerieLord
MOD: Psst! A small matter with your addition.
User avatar
TDC
TDC
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TDC
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2108
Joined: January 25, 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post Post #237 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:14 am

Post by TDC »

Johoohno wrote:Perhaps I’m just inexperienced, but I’ve never witnessed a town-favourable-day-one-claim. I believe that the scum would get more useful information from a claim, during D1, than the town.
What? Clearly "scum knows who's <power role>" is still better than "<power role> is lynched", isn't it?

Cake: I know this is cold coffee, but now that you're back, I'd like to remind you of my question in post #89.

Zeek: I replied to some of your takes on my posts.. any comments?
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1819
Joined: October 15, 2007

Post Post #238 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:24 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

johoono wrote: I've never said it's anti-town (I dislike lurkers too), but I don't see it as scum hunting.
Well, if its a semantics issue, then I don't care whether or not its scumhunting, so long as you don't have a problem with me doing it. Because then I have a problem with you having a problem. :)
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1819
Joined: October 15, 2007

Post Post #239 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:25 am

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

Also, the ideal solution is obviously to not force a power role into claiming, but sometimes that's not what happens. Better for them to claim then for us to lynch a power role.
User avatar
ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1879
Joined: June 14, 2007

Post Post #240 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:19 am

Post by ZeekLTK »

So I have read a few people say they find Nano's play suspicious so far (due to his bandwagon vote), and others who claim they are "pressuring lurkers" (who could possibly be lurking more than Nano?) and yet I'm still the only person who is voting for him...?

------

TDC you "addressed" my posts but didn't really give me anything to address back...

You did say:
TDC wrote:I can't really judge whether you misrepresented FaerieLord as much as he claims without reading the mentioned posts again, will do that tomorrow.
Did you ever do this?
User avatar
Lowell
Lowell
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Lowell
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6318
Joined: July 25, 2006

Post Post #241 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:49 pm

Post by Lowell »

I'm out until Friday. May or may not have internet.
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TheSweatpantsNinja
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1819
Joined: October 15, 2007

Post Post #242 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:34 pm

Post by TheSweatpantsNinja »

I don't think nano is lurking so much as just gone. He should probably be replaced. MafiaSSK, on the other hand, has 'fessed up to lurking intentionally (and is definitely active on the site), and needs to be forced into participating.
User avatar
icemanE
icemanE
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
icemanE
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2361
Joined: March 31, 2008

Post Post #243 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:25 pm

Post by icemanE »

TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:I don't think nano is lurking so much as just gone. He should probably be replaced. MafiaSSK, on the other hand, has 'fessed up to lurking intentionally (and is definitely active on the site), and needs to be forced into participating.
After consider this for awhile, I think I agree with you. I'm not looking for a lynch on Mafia though. He really does need to get back into the game.

Vote: MafiaSSK
User avatar
Johoohno
Johoohno
He
16777215 km/h
User avatar
User avatar
Johoohno
He
16777215 km/h
16777215 km/h
Posts: 1166
Joined: October 22, 2007
Pronoun: He
Location: Sweden

Post Post #244 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:42 pm

Post by Johoohno »

@ Greasy Spot:
Greasy Spot (post 54) wrote:
Johoohno wrote:@ Greasy Spot: Do you intend to go scum hunting sometime soon or keep flinging out random votes to left and right?
Yes!
Care to give an unambiguous answer and start scum hunting?


@ TDC:
There are more to claims than what you say in post 237, but I won't say more (to avoid giving scum stupid ideas).


@ IcemanE:
You missed rule #3:
Sudo_Nym wrote:3. Post an Unvote in bold before changing your vote. E.g. Unvote Vote: Someone Else


I also think we can count Nanosauromo as permanently away. I'll give him a few more days before requesting a replacement.
User avatar
TDC
TDC
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TDC
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2108
Joined: January 25, 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post Post #245 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:05 am

Post by TDC »

ZeekLTK wrote: TDC you "addressed" my posts but didn't really give me anything to address back...
I disagreed with you (on facts!), so I'd expect you to either say something like "Fair enough"/"Sorry, I was wrong" or "No, you're wrong, because.."
You did say:
TDC wrote:I can't really judge whether you misrepresented FaerieLord as much as he claims without reading the mentioned posts again, will do that tomorrow.
Did you ever do this?
I tried, but I can't say I agree with either of you. Your huge post was _very_ subjective, yet prestented somewhat objective, and FaerieLord apparently took everything you said to be "fact", while most of it appears to be personal opinion to me.. (this is why I did not reply to your "here TDC wants to get me lynched"-style comments, they are absolutely empty of facts).
User avatar
icemanE
icemanE
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
icemanE
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2361
Joined: March 31, 2008

Post Post #246 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:28 am

Post by icemanE »

Ah, sorry.

Unvote. Vote: MafiaSSK
User avatar
ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ZeekLTK
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1879
Joined: June 14, 2007

Post Post #247 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:46 am

Post by ZeekLTK »

TDC wrote:I disagreed with you (on facts!), so I'd expect you to either say something like "Fair enough"/"Sorry, I was wrong" or "No, you're wrong, because.."
Not really... this was your post.
TDC wrote:Fairly huge post by you, there.
ZeekLTK wrote: TDC suggests that even if Cake was scum, I could be "bussing him" (lol seriously? he's not even half way to a lynch at this point).
iceman had suggested that you would be cleared if Cake turned up scum and I pointed out that while that would certainly lower suspicion, one should always think about all possibilities.
Basically the question is phrased in a way that if TSPN answers "no" (which is really the logical answer) then TDC will say, "so then you should be suspicious of Zeek and vote for him".
Well, let's look at his post and my question:
TSPN wrote:By attacking him, you're punishing him for pressuring cake, which is a pro-town thing to do. Pressuring people on day 1 = good.
I wrote:Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?
I have no idea how he could have answered "no" without contradicting his own post, so how do you think could that have lead to me telling him to vote for you?

ZeekLTK wrote: Okay, now let's step back for a second here. Post #89, when TDC enters the game, he has lots of questions for several players (Johoonho, Cake, etc.) None of these questions were ever answered, and they were all fairly relevant to the game. So why did TDC not press these issues?
This was because unlike the others who I asked questions, TSPN had already posted in the thread since I asked (so I assumed he had ignored/overread my question).
Natirasha was soon replaced, Johoonho answered in his next post and Cake has not really been part of the game since then.

I can't really judge whether you misrepresented FaerieLord as much as he claims without reading the mentioned posts again, will do that tomorrow.

For the first part, "okay", but like I have said before, if you honestly think this is a situation of "bussing" most likely you are just grasping for some reason to suspect me.

Second part, you said:
TDC wrote:
TheSweatpantsNinja wrote: By attacking him, you're punishing him for pressuring cake, which is a pro-town thing to do.
We must have very different opinions about the concept of "pressure" in this game.
Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?

Seriously?
You are clearly trying to get him to "agree" with you that what I did was "not pro-town"... and thus I can only assume that if you managed to do that you would call on him to vote for me.

Third part, "okay" I initially missed Johoohno's answer but you admitted that 2 of the 3 people never did answer, so I was still (mostly) correct in pointing that out.

Fourth part was nothing for me to respond to, it was something you said you would do.
User avatar
TDC
TDC
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TDC
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2108
Joined: January 25, 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post Post #248 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:24 am

Post by TDC »

ZeekLTK wrote: Second part, you said:
TDC wrote:
TheSweatpantsNinja wrote: By attacking him, you're punishing him for pressuring cake, which is a pro-town thing to do.
We must have very different opinions about the concept of "pressure" in this game.
Are you saying that if I voted you right now and said "Can we get TSPN lynched, now?" that would put pressure on you? That that would be pro-town behaviour from me?

Seriously?
You are clearly trying to get him to "agree" with you that what I did was "not pro-town"... and thus I can only assume that if you managed to do that you would call on him to vote for me.
"Not pro-town" and "scummy" are not equivalent.
Him voting for you after explicitly claiming your behaviour was pro-town is a pretty ridiculous thought.
Third part, "okay" I initially missed Johoohno's answer but you admitted that 2 of the 3 people never did answer, so I was still (mostly) correct in pointing that out.
I replied to this question of yours: "So why did TDC not press these issues?" and not to "Oh look, these guys haven't answered his questions".
By saying I "admitted" you imply that it's somehow my fault, so please specify what you think I've done wrong, because I have no idea.
User avatar
Marmalade
Marmalade
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Marmalade
Goon
Goon
Posts: 182
Joined: February 8, 2008
Location: Kitchen cupboard.

Post Post #249 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:08 am

Post by Marmalade »

Pretty sure that Zeek is town at this point. I don't think the case against him is particularly substantial, and, to be honest, I'm getting a bit bored of it.

I like, however, the MafiaSSK hate, however.
FoS: Mafia
. There is a difference between his type of lurking and that of Nanasauromo, who genuinely seems to have gone. Contibution please?

I will be doing a re-read, but maybe not until next week sometime.
Sign up for [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8094]Unanimous[/url] today!

Return to “Completed Mini Normal Games”