Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Battle Mage]

Then the alternative is pretty obvious. -.-

The alternative is lynching SF, which I've been vouching for all game. Look at the most recent posts. Most people think Jerub is town and SF is scum, yet they're rather willing to lynch Jerub because of claim-based reasons. All this while SF's claim doesn't make sense at all. It's general stupidity that keeps this town from moving forward, not my lack of initiative.

No, its your lack of initiative/intelligence. Why the hell are you not asking SF to PROVE his PR? Its a pretty conclusive way to prove him as scum, if you believe that to be true. Its pretty obvious you dont have the courage of your convictions, and you dont actually want SF to prove himself.

HoS: CES

You're the exact person this suggestion should appeal to, and yet you arent seeing it, which tells that you clearly arent genuinely suspicious of SF.

BM

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

No, its your lack of initiative/intelligence. Why the hell are you not asking SF to PROVE his PR? Its a pretty conclusive way to prove him as scum, if you believe that to be true.

That is poor sportmanship and ethically wrong at best, and cheating at worst. I wouldn't ever play this way.

[Battle Mage]

No, its your lack of initiative/intelligence. Why the hell are you not asking SF to PROVE his PR? Its a pretty conclusive way to prove him as scum, if you believe that to be true.

That is poor sportmanship and ethically wrong at best, and cheating at worst. I wouldn't ever play this way.

If i could be bothered, i'd go back and point out how the vast majority of you are being, in light of these RB strategies that have been proposed, which clearly are against the ethics of fair play. Its how PR's work, in case you hadnt realised.
Its like claiming Vig and then saying you arent going to make him vig anyone because it might confirm his claim.

It's retarded and i'm clearly fighting a losing battle here.

Request Replacement

Sorry Khelv, but everyone has a limit. I've reached and exceeded mine.

BM

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

No. PRs aren't made to be broken.

And the RB strategies are simply directing night choices. However, you haven't seen me arguing for repeatedly nolynching. I think that'd bad too, actually. If you want, you can check the mini I'm modding. It has the rule that nolynching two days in a row is forbidden.

Requesting replacement because you don't get your way is not something I'd expect from you, BM.

[Battle Mage]

No. PRs aren't made to be broken.

And the RB strategies are simply directing night choices. However, you haven't seen me arguing for repeatedly nolynching. I think that'd bad too, actually. If you want, you can check the mini I'm modding. It has the rule that nolynching two days in a row is forbidden.

Requesting replacement because you don't get your way is not something I'd expect from you, BM.

PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.

And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.

Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.

I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.

Maybe my replacement will have more joy.

BM

[Joubert]

That is poor sportmanship and ethically wrong at best, and cheating at worst. I wouldn't ever play this way.

I second that...

[SensFan]

PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.

And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.

Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.

I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.

Maybe my replacement will have more joy.

BM

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[Korts]

I, for one, am all for SF confirming his PR. At worst, he gets modkilled, but we still have a single confirmed scum. Also, SF, let's get this straight. You're gonna die in a fire if you break the PR?

[Khelvaster]

Again, answering PM'd questions in the open--this one came from someone who was not Sensfan:

If I modkill someone for breaking a PR, I won't end the day. This is the same as me not ending the day for modkilling someone who is quoting a role PM, repeatedly spamming the game and making it unplayable, talking outside of the game about in-game stuff, etc.

In extreme circumstances (someone trying to get modkilled through anti-mafia methods like posting bestiality porn repeatedly in this topic so that they are killed but the day doesn't end, if they are townie about to be lynched,) I reserve discretion to end the day after discussion dies down to allow twilight discussion of night actions. Of course, this is a very rare circumstance, because most players are not assholes.


There's my long answer to a short question. To apply it to this game: If SensFan had a PR and broke it, and if the penalty for breaking it was a modkill, the day would continue. This is neither confirming nor denying a PR or, if it does exist, its penalty.

[Battle Mage]

^this is what i was hinting at earlier. So getting him modkilled doesnt end the day, and so we would get the benefit of 2 lynches for 1.

BM

[Battle Mage]

PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.

And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.

Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.

I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.

Maybe my replacement will have more joy.

BM

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ah good, you're here. Nice to know that you'll pop up to defacate on our graves, but that you arent gonna be here for anything useful. We are still waiting for you to break your PR. Its not like you've got any good reason not to.

BM

[Battle Mage]

PR's are made to be broken. I would be able to give you a classic example, but the game is ongoing, so i shalln't.

And ftr, im not giving up because i havent got my own way as such. Its more the fact that ive spent a fair amount of time reading the game, and coming up with the optimum play for the town. Its far too exasperating playing as part of a town which clearly cannot use the correct strategy to win the game.

Plus if i'm honest, i'm more than a tad insulted over the whole PR thing. Using a key aspect of a role in order to assess its affiliation is NOT cheating.

I've given you guys some food for thought. I cant see me being able to achieve much more in the game until some people's attitudes change.

Maybe my replacement will have more joy.

BM

Vote: D
Vote: I
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Vote: N

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ah good, you're here. Nice to know that you'll pop up to defacate on our graves, but that you arent gonna be here for anything useful. We are still waiting for you to break your PR. Its not like you've got any good reason not to.

BM

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Holy shit, Khelv.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

^this is what i was hinting at earlier. So getting him modkilled doesnt end the day, and so we would get the benefit of 2 lynches for 1.

Not really; it'd be true if we were lynching SF, but we're not. Asking him to break his PR would be a better option than lynching him, I'll give you that.

Trying to figure out and break the setup is a bit boring and borderline anti-spirit of the game, I'll give you that too, but it's not actually breaking the rules and hoping for a lenient punishment. Unless I misunderstand you and you really do want SF to be modkilled to check his alignment? Hmm. Ok, I see how that'd be a strategy... Either he's modkilled, in which case he's cop, in which case we lynch jerubbaal, thereby trading a cop for scum. Or he's not, in which case he's likely not cop, in which case we lynch him, getting a scum and not losing jerubbaal.

I don't really think that's optimal play though. If he's cop, the only scenario in which we get to keep him is if Khelvaster publically warns him. That doesn't seem like something I'd bet on. It is a decent scenario if he's scum, though, and better than lynching him... But if he's scum, he'd never agree to do it.

Would you elaborate a bit further? Am I correct in thinking you want him to break his PR until publically warned, modkilled, or keep breaking it until it's obvious that he WOULD be modkilled if he had a PR? You stated earlier that you thought he does have a PR and is town-aligned, but also hinted that you didn't think he was a cop... Is that why you don't want to see jerubbaal lynched?

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

I hate to do this, but..

SensFan, break your PR

[Battle Mage]

Would you elaborate a bit further? Am I correct in thinking you want him to break his PR until publically warned, modkilled, or keep breaking it until it's obvious that he WOULD be modkilled if he had a PR? You stated earlier that you thought he does have a PR and is town-aligned, but also hinted that you didn't think he was a cop... Is that why you don't want to see jerubbaal lynched?

Id rather not have discussed this so much beforehand-it only gives Khelv more ideas if Sens does have a PR. In my mind, 1 breach of a PR should be enough to warrant some public sign-probably a warning.

I am pretty certain his PR is real, but obviously you guys arent as easy to convince. So lets put it to the test.

BM

[Joubert]

So the only way to go is SensFan breaking his PR... Strange...

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Id rather not have discussed this so much beforehand-it only gives Khelv more ideas

Whoa there. You're trying to actively mislead the mod? And you don't see a problem with this?

So the only way to go is SensFan breaking his PR... Strange...

What? The way to go is to lynch jerubbaal. >_> If SensFan was the lynch, the way to go would be get him to break his PR; but it's not, so it's not.

[Battle Mage]

Id rather not have discussed this so much beforehand-it only gives Khelv more ideas

Whoa there. You're trying to actively mislead the mod? And you don't see a problem with this?

No. Im refraining from telling the mod how to run his game. I have a very low opinion of Mods who take advice from players on how to run the game whilst it is in progress, and i have a lower opinion of players who pressurise and force the Mod to make these adjustments.

BM

[Joubert]

FoS: BattleMage

, for no apparent reason...

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Id rather not have discussed this so much beforehand-it only gives Khelv more ideas

Whoa there. You're trying to actively mislead the mod? And you don't see a problem with this?

No. Im refraining from telling the mod how to run his game.

Ah, ok. Because it seemed like you were trying to create a situation the mod might not have planned for and hope he responded in a way that would benefit you/us.

Anyway, I think it's time to end this day. It's been going on with no real progress for too long.

Vote: jerubbaal

[Khelvaster]

Please tell me whether this is accurate--there's been so much writing and so little voting that I'm not sure whether I caught everything.

SensFan(2)--Jerrubaal, Cogito Ergo Scum
Jerrubaal(4)--SensFan, Korts, Joubert, Cavebear

[Joubert]

I swept from post 475, and I get this count:

SensFan (2) -- Jerubbaal, CES
Jerubbaal (4) -- SensFan, Korts, Joubert, Cavebear

[Khelvaster]

You're right--fixed. Also, I want to clarify: I won't give a public announcement if a PR is broken. That would be a cheap way to confirm/unconfirm Sensfan. The only time I would give a public announcement is if I had to modkill.

And to state my usual disclaimer: this neither confirms nor denies any PRs or their consequences if they do exist.

[Shanba]

Battle Mage, it seems like the only thing you want to do is to beat the system from the outside... This is boring...

eh? i want to confirm a proveable role. Im no more attempting to break the game than you kids were with that poncey circular RB thing.

Clearly, Battle Mage is worried about plans that are good for the town. DIESCUMDIE.

Ahem, excuse me...

FoS: BattleMage, for no apparent reason...

Are you trying to achieve something with this or are you just filling up space? I really, really want Joubert dead.

However, in more pressing matters... I think, on balance, jerub is the play. From a purely risk vs reward assessment, it's better not to risk the cop lynch. That's how we decide every lynch in the end, risk vs reward - is the risk of lynching x worth the reward? Yes is the answer almost every time, but balancing the two is essential - Sensfan is a high risk, low reward lynch whereas jerub is a low risk medium reward lynch. Or something like that.

Vote: jerubbaal

I'm sorry, but you have to die. That's -1 now, btw.