Cultafia: Game over


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:38 am

Post by Skruffs »

armlx wrote:[quote="HjalltiI am pretty sure mnowax is not town, and not my faction.
Interesting choice of words there.

Mno is just being dumb and frustrated at this point, which is a pretty null tell.[/quote]

You are the one who pointed the reason out to me, armlx. Why did you forget so quickly? I also notice that other than that, you haven't said anything to or about hjallti the entire game. Why is that?
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:40 am

Post by Skruffs »

armlx wrote:
Hjallti wrote:I am pretty sure mnowax is not town, and not my faction.
Interesting choice of words there.

Mno is just being dumb and frustrated at this point, which is a pretty null tell.
You are the one who pointed the reason out to me, armlx. Why did you forget so quickly? I also notice that other than that, you haven't said anything to or about hjallti the entire game. Why is that?

Fixed, Armlx's original quote was botched a bit.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:40 am

Post by Skruffs »

And, sorry for hte run on posts, but he also hasn't sai d anything to or about you, armlx.
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:58 pm

Post by armlx »

Umm, Hjallti replaced in pretty recently, the number of responses to his posts is going to be limited regardless of who it is. I also responded to his major post about there beign 2 vigs and what not, agreeing with the logic.

You also suggest I should auto know thats your only reason, which is pretty stray to vote off of. Maybe at the start of day one its worth a vote, but afterwards its merely one piece to add to a full case. I assumed you had more than just that.

Skruffs, I am unimpressed with the effort you are putting into this game. You really need to step up your reading and analysis before I consider anything you have said. I quite frankly ignored your posts yesterday as you were commenting on 7 page old content out of current context.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:23 pm

Post by Hjallti »

Skruffs, you are voting me for leaving the word 'thus' in a sentence in my third language. Nice.
I should have written wrote: I am pretty sure mnowax is not town, and
thus
not my faction.
Do you have any real leads.

I can agree with people saying that mnowax play doesn't make sense as town and as scum, but I wonder if it is a nulltell. his moves indicate he has the urge to do something. Maybe he is so misinformed that he thinks he should try to move things all the time. He might be thinking his ploy of yesterday was a good idea since it trapped blazerunner, but don't forget that blazerunner was a mislynch. I just don't seem to find an angle to understand how he is playing.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:10 am

Post by Skruffs »

Amlx - you and the person he replaced also didn't discuss each other.


You quoted the thing from hjltill, didn't comment on it except to bring attention to it,a nd then questioned why someone else brought it up.

It really does not bother me if you are 'unimpressed' by me. I'm actually used to people using my 'lack of reason' as an excuse to ignore me - IF you want, I will compile a list of the percentage of people who say stuff like that and turn out ot be scum.

I am interested, not in your focus on only targeting cult-recruiters, but in your demand for significant amounts of proof from other people to explain why they are focusing on cult recruiters.


I'm kind of curious about your attitude - you seem to be rather lofty and comfortable in the position you are in. Why?

Also, you did talk about hjalltill in another post:
armlx wrote:Hjallti's last post is very logical, though I'm wondering how Yosarian missed his list of experienced quality players. I have a pretty good idea why this could be true, but I want to hear his answer.

The TSS being SK thing makes a lot of sense now as well given that, with Blaze's block and all.

Pretty sure mno's anti-Yos logic is just wrong.

No clue who are possible cult leaders, only some thoughts on who probably isn't.
I think it's interesting that you have no problem criticizing other people's attempts at pushing things, but you yourself admit that you have no leads. You criticize me, apparently, for suggestuing you should 'auto-know' my reasons for doing things, but YOUR attitude is that you do not have any intentions of investigating motivations and such, yourself. Which is why I am asking if you can be so comfortable in your place in the game as to be so critical of others and unhelpful yourself.


Hjaltill - you are mirroring Armlx's opinion of me, and asking if I have any "real leads" - what does that mean? I am assuming if you have the luxury of demanding real leads, from me, that you yourself also have real leads? Could you please provide them?

Secondarily: What you should have wrote is very much different from what you did write. The first one is informative; it has two separate subjects. The revision, though, is clunky, redundant, and obtuse. Not town and thus not your faction - why would you, as town, go to the effort of putting in the equivalent of "He is not town, unlike me, who is town."

No, I don' think you mis-wrote it at all; I think you were thinking in the back of your head that he was a vying cult recruiter.


I think the reaction I got from two other players for voting Hjallti is very interesting. It might even be considered "A lead".


to both of you: If you are going to demand leads from players and dismiss them if they do not provide leads up to 'your standards', you are inherently required to provide leads, yourself. Armlx, you yourself have openly admitted you do not have any leads. Since you do not have anything to go on, you should be advancing other people's leads to see if they have merit, not trying to say they are not good enough. Unless you are scum fishing for a cop; or a cult recruit defending his recruitor.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:21 am

Post by Norinel »

Vote Count


Hjallti- 1 (Skruffs)

Not voting (12): Everyone else

7 to lynch
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:44 am

Post by armlx »

Skruffs wrote:Amlx - you and the person he replaced also didn't discuss each other.
Theres a reason the person was replaced, I don't even remember them ever posting.....
You quoted the thing from hjltill, didn't comment on it except to bring attention to it,a nd then questioned why someone else brought it up.
I figured any comment he made in response was all I needed to hear about it. Like I said, its not a vote worthy thing at this stage in the game, and I'm suprised you find it that way.
It really does not bother me if you are 'unimpressed' by me. I'm actually used to people using my 'lack of reason' as an excuse to ignore me - IF you want, I will compile a list of the percentage of people who say stuff like that and turn out ot be scum.
So you are saying if someone questions you and asks to post reasoning, thats a scum tell? Thats really terrible, detrimental logic.
I am interested, not in your focus on only targeting cult-recruiters, but in your demand for significant amounts of proof from other people to explain why they are focusing on cult recruiters.
Cite examples. I have no memory of asking the logic beyond early game maybe.
I'm kind of curious about your attitude - you seem to be rather lofty and comfortable in the position you are in. Why?
Don't really feel I am, not sure why you would think this.
Also, you did talk about hjalltill in another post:
Your point?
No clue who are possible cult leaders, only some thoughts on who probably isn't.
I think it's interesting that you have no problem criticizing other people's attempts at pushing things, but you yourself admit that you have no leads. You criticize me, apparently, for suggestuing you should 'auto-know' my reasons for doing things, but YOUR attitude is that you do not have any intentions of investigating motivations and such, yourself. Which is why I am asking if you can be so comfortable in your place in the game as to be so critical of others and unhelpful yourself.
You act like just because I was reevaluating things in context of D2 I have no intent of finding things out. I was critical of your argument because, quite frankly, I find it lacking. You want me to support a case I find bad just to progress the game? Isn't that usually called band wagoning?
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:34 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Huh, I think the first part of Skruff's diatribe indicates some major reaching. Is is really significant that somebody with all of
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:39 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Sorry, mispost.

Huh, I think the first part of Skruff's diatribe indicates some major reaching. Is is really significant that somebody with all of 4 posts in the thread didn't talk to Armlx? Seems like he got drawn in on what turns out to be a bum tell and is reaching for reasons not to let the point drop. IMO, both town and scum are looking for consistency, so it's not a tell on Skruffs, but I really don't see a case based on a lack of connection between two living players and a typo.
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:27 pm

Post by the silent speaker »

Can we get a modprod on Occult, please?
I think it's pretty clear that TSS's awesomeness did alter the roles each of us recieved, and thus he's obviously pro-town. -- Save The Dragons
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:14 pm

Post by Hjallti »

Skruffs wrote:I am assuming if you have the luxury of demanding real leads, from me, that you yourself also have real leads?
No, how so? I used 'real leads' as opposed to the strange statement that I was scum first witout apparent reason, and afterwards for some syntactical argument. Even if you try to keep on disagreeing with this, you should find this very logical.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:20 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

Mno, have you ever been in a game where someone self voted out of fustration?..if so, and it is completed, please provide a link.
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:33 am

Post by mnowax »

lemme check there are many ones out there.
Sure one more time for fun.
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:55 am

Post by Norinel »

the silent speaker wrote:Can we get a modprod on Occult, please?
Occult will have some access in the future, but recommends that he replaced if possible; I'll start looking.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:34 am

Post by vollkan »

Skruffs' latest offering does not sit too well with me.
Skruffs wrote: It really does not bother me if you are 'unimpressed' by me. I'm actually used to people using my 'lack of reason' as an excuse to ignore me - IF you want, I will compile a list of the percentage of people who say stuff like that and turn out ot be scum.
I do not like this sort of threat. If your reasoning is shoddy, pointing it out is the right thing to do.
Skruffs wrote: I'm kind of curious about your attitude - you seem to be rather lofty and comfortable in the position you are in. Why?
"Lofty and comfortable"? For one, I don't have a clue what you are referencing here. Moreover, if a player is 'lofty and comfortable' what does that mean?
Skruffs wrote: I think it's interesting that you have no problem criticizing other people's attempts at pushing things, but you yourself admit that you have no leads.
I think it's interesting that you have a problem with people criticising the dodgy reasoning of other players.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:14 am

Post by Skruffs »

I think that people, if they are going to criticize the 'quality' of other player's probings and cases, should at the very least offer their own in return.

Not doing so leads to a game of entropic destabilization.

IF one person is pushing a case, and three people hop in and say "Your reasoning is not good enough to continue pushing this case", then that player either pushes MORE, at risk of becoming an easy counter wagon, OR, they drop the case.

If the three people who say "Your reasoning is not good enough" do not offer cases of their own, then in effect, all they are doing is prohibiting the discovery of more information. they don't *know* that the lead is bad; by discouraging it, they are in fact potentially trying to protect the person that the first person is probing at.

Case in point:
Armlx murmurs about vikingfan being 'the right call', but then abruptly shifts to SpringLUllaby after a wagon formed on her. Even in defending it, he used another player's reasoning as the basis for his own vote.

So for him to attack me for not offering a good enough case, that's very, the picture I get is of a middle ages king, reclined on his thrown and being offered grapes. Should he eat these grapes? No, those are too sour. How about these? No, they haven't been skinned. Being the king, he has the luxury of only nibbling on the BEST grapes; and, obviously, he's not going to go out and PICK Them himself.

It's 'lofty', it is the only way I can use to describe it.

Or, I Guess you could say he is playing completely under the radar, which is funny because that was his reasoning for voting SL - for playing under the radar until she came under fire. Since he thought she was scum, and he is doing the same thing, he must have been attributing his own role to her.

OR maybe I'm just wildly postulating. At this point, I don't care. I'm too flashy and lynchable to be recruited by a cult, so I might as well talk my head off until the SK shoots me.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:59 am

Post by armlx »

So, what you are saying is people who shoot down crap logic should offer up some of their own if they have nothing solid?

I think a rotten grape is a better analogy, and for real who is going to eat that? You seem to have the impression your "case" was remotely servicable.
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:05 am

Post by Skruffs »

I'm saying that you should NOT consider yourself to be a king. You should consider yourself ot be one of the farmers who are wallowing around in the crap and harvesting grapes. If we all pluck grapes, and compare them, then yes, we can throw out the bad ones.

But the fact that my theories are the ones gettingthe most attention, as crappy as they are, suggests that there are a lot of people who are content to lay back - like you are doing - and let other people do the work.

I think that you should offer what you have, wether it's solid or not. Maybe you, even if you don't have a solid case, can see something that I have missed. That's why I am talking about what I am talking about. No, I do'nt expect anyone to be lynched off of the stuff I've said. But, maybe I've seen something about someone that others have missed; they can then look at it themselves.


You want fully developed theories and you are unwilling to help build them yourself.

I'm pretty sure that's a scumtell.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:40 am

Post by armlx »

I think the irony of all this was your vote on hjallti was based solely on something I pointed out.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:48 am

Post by Skruffs »

Which you then questioned me on, because you don't think it's much of a tell.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:49 am

Post by Skruffs »

Which makes me wonder, why are you looking so shallowly at things if you want good, deep, meaty cases to chew on.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:59 am

Post by armlx »

Skruffs, you aren't even making sense any more.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:34 am

Post by Skruffs »

Explain how I'm not making sense, then.
At least you are confirming that I *was* making sense to you before - even though you were saying I didn't make sense, then, too.
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:43 am

Post by Norinel »

Bumping count and stuff to the next page...

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