Dynamite Stick Mafia! GAME OVER

[Quagmire]

The way he is responding to you... like "you're a better player than to actually suspect ME of being scum." It's like saying only stupid people would think he's scum.

And he's voting you. If he thinks you're scum, wouldn't he be attributing your actions (voting him) to being scum, and not to being stupid? If he just thinks you are misguided townie, he shouldn't be voting you. And if he thinks you're scum then he shouldn't be asking you to play better.

I originally thought that the fighting between you two was buddy-fighting, but I'm not so sure anymore. I think Yos is implying he knows you are town. Which is pretty weird if he's voting for you.

unvote CES; vote Yos

Now who's twisting words? Yos was criticising CES's specific reason, not his general accusation, and I would tend to agree that CES's conspiracy theory regarding the "two-night tell" is total crap (would you?) He wasn't calling CES stupid, he was calling him smarter than that.

I never made any judgement on CES's reasons for voting Yos. I do think the two-night-tell is nonsense. I was only commenting on Yos's reaction, which I didn't like. And I do think saying "you're smarter than that" implies the person is acting stupid. It's a slightly disguised insult. And a manipulative way to get somebody off your back.

You'd have to be reading pretty sloppy and posting even sloppier not to catch stuff like that. It isn't exactly nuance.

Vote: elvis_knits

she's been manufacturing cases all game.

Also, I could have sworn Scum was an alt of Sum.

Manufacturing cases all game? O rly?

I like how nabakov and quag ignored my response.

i haven't stated my case against you, so i don't know what i'm supposed to respond to here. all that i've said is that i think you're scum.

[elvis_knits]

You said you agreed with nabakov's case against me. If that's not your case, then why would you say that, and what is your case?

[Mr Stoofer]

ALIGHT

--

Deadline will be ~2nd May.

[NabakovNabakov]

I like how nabakov and quag ignored my response.

I like how you ignored Yos' reponse. Anything I would have said would have just repeated.

[Quagmire]

You said you agreed with nabakov's case against me. If that's not your case, then why would you say that, and what is your case?

good point

although i had a different case on you as well as nabakov's, so i dunno

i think we should still kill you

[elvis_knits]

I like how nabakov and quag ignored my response.

I like how you ignored Yos' reponse. Anything I would have said would have just repeated.

Yos's response? All he said was sorry if he comes off condescending. What am I supposed to do with that? Anyone would say that. It changes nothing.

[PokerFace]

Hey Everbody. Here is my basic opinion on what has been going on since my last post.

I remain not a fan of the Yosarian wagon. The best evidence I saw on Yosarian2 was given in post 284 by kuribo. And since Yosarian's response to it makes sence, that isn't enough to make me vote Yosarian.

Elvis Knits' original reactions to CEScum and PEG postings don't ping my scumdar. I can understand what she said about CEScum because I had a simular rection to CEScum's posts. Meanwhile I've played with PEG on irc and scumchat, so I kinda expected that out of him. I don't really think she has been fabricating cases as much as has been said, so I am not really a fan of the wagon on her either.

The Surye wagon is a wagon I have no problem with. I approve of it and can see reason for him being scum. I mentioned liking the evidence on it earlier and if a majority becomes truly necessary I may get on the wagon. But right now my vote is going to stay on Sarcastro.

Since my last posting I have taken some time to do some slight meta-gaming on a few players. I haven't done too much, but from what I've looked at I am a little less confident CEScum is scum so I probably won't be re-voting him atm. Meanwhile I am still very confident sarcastro is scum. He is not posting like I would expect from a town sarcastro.

Please don't vote for me. It is mean.

And this post is quite a pathetic appeal to emotions. Probably the worst I have ever seen in my life. He has thrown out accusations without reasons and pretty much done nothing. He is pretty much active lurking and not really contributing in his posts. If you want I can quote or repeat what I have said about him earlier, but seriously has no one noticed Sarcastro's scumness besides me? I am greatly considering adopting the oppinion UltimaAvalon voiced earlier and taking out sarcastro myself. If the town does not meet a majority decision on who is blowing up who at deadline, I might eliminate Sarcastro myself at that time.

At any rate, here is the current vote count:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current Vote Count of Day 4:

Yosarian2 - 3(Cogito Ergo Scum, Claus, Elvis)
Surye - 3(PEG, Skitzer, Ergo)
Elvis - 2(NabNab, Quagmire)
Cogito Ergo Scum - 1(Yosarian2)
Sarcastro - 1(PokerFace)
Skitzer - 1(Surye)

Not Voting - 5(Elmo, Flameaxe, Kuribo, Marmalade, Sarcastro)

16 people alive so its 9 votes needed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I got to go. If I missed somebody's vote let me know. I'll try and post more as i get healthier. later.

[Erg0]

That doesn't really look like a genuine appeal to emotion to me. It looks more like a lazy defence. I'd suggest that you come over to the correct wagon, and I'd

strongly

suggest that you don't blow up a guy that nobody else finds suspicious.

[Claus]

Hmm. A vote count. Might as well post some content.

(sorry town, this game is not particularly inspiring me right now - if there is a spot open, I would like to volunteer for "strike a light police" role)

=======

And I'm not attacking you because you're "disagreeing with me". I gave a pro-town suggestion, and YOU attacked ME for it, remember?

Yup I do. And I still think that the timing and manner of that suggestion seemed off to me. I explained why already.

So you're attacking me because I'm voting you because I thought that your "pro-town suggestion" seemed scummy (also because of the 3 scum slip and gut feeling, but nevermind). Where do we go from here?

======

Commenting on the bandwagons from the vote count (based on each target's isolated posts):

- I find skitzer slightly more scummy then Surye. Can see Skitzer (or Surye) blowing up Yos.
- Not really seeing the case on Elvis.
- I would like to see Sarc voce.
- Not really seeing the case on CES right now.

[Yosarian2]

Yup I do. And I still think that the timing and manner of that suggestion seemed off to me. I explained why already.

Um, no, no you really didn't, or at least not in a way that fit the facts at all. Your entire claim was that you thought it was scummy that I "attacked lurkers in my very first post on day 2", but that's just not true. In my very first post, I said we NEEDED to pressure lurkers, and we do, that's just good, solid pro-town stratagy advice, but I did NOT attack lukers until there'd been pleanty of time to see who the lurkers were.

What's wrong, exactally, with me suggesting pro-town stratagy early in the game in general terms?

So you're attacking me because I'm voting you because I thought that your "pro-town suggestion" seemed scummy (also because of the 3 scum slip and gut feeling, but nevermind). Where do we go from here?

What you need to do, is you need to answer my question.

So did they choose you as the "active scum" this time?

Oh, so now I'm scum because I'm active. Or am I scum because I'm attacking you? Or am I scum because I'm offering pro-town stratagy advice on how to deal with lurkers?

In other words, you need to explain why you're voting for me, because it seems like an incredibly scummy OMGUS vote from where I'm sitting. Also, you need to explain, exactally, why you thought I was wrong when I made this comment:

On another note, this kind of setup makes it WAY too easy for scum to lurk while all the townies kill each other off. That's how the scum won in the first MAD game, and it could easily happen again here. So we've got to make sure the days are long enough so everyone has a chance to post some real content, and I'm also personally going to be keeping a very close eye on lurkers; I think lurking is an especlaly strong scumtell this game, because lurking is more likely to be a good scum tactic in this kind of game.

I assume that's the comment you're attacking me over, am I correct? What, exactally, was wrong with that comment? And what was wrong with the so-called "timing and manner" of that comment?

You need to do all of this and explain yourself better, becuase I'm just not believing your claimed motives right now. The reasons you've given for attacking me make little sense and seem to have little to do with anything that's actually happened in the thread, and it feels like you're trying to piggyback on the attacks made against me by others to try to cause a mislynch.

[Yosarian2]

Edit: It was actually my second post, as I noticed when going back to look for that quote.

[Sarcastro]

Sorry for lurking, guys - I had a brutal week of essays and exams and this game wasn't really inspiring enough to make time for.

I'm really getting annoyed with Pokerface. Seriously, what's with all this "appeal to emotion" bullshit? Do you honestly believe what I said was scummy? I can't even fathom how that could be. You look like you're reaching desperately for some kind of validation of your suspicions here. I really

want

to say it's scummy, but I might just be blinded by the fact that you're acting utterly foolish.

[Quagmire]

Sorry for lurking, guys - I had a brutal week of essays and exams and this game wasn't really inspiring enough to make time for.

I'm really getting annoyed with Pokerface. Seriously, what's with all this "appeal to emotion" bullshit? Do you honestly believe what I said was scummy? I can't even fathom how that could be. You look like you're reaching desperately for some kind of validation of your suspicions here. I really

want

to say it's scummy, but I might just be blinded by the fact that you're acting utterly foolish.

hmm i would sacrifice myself to kill sarcastro too

perhaps a sarcastro/elvis_knits blow-up should be arranged?

[Quagmire]

Sorry for lurking, guys - I had a brutal week of essays and exams and this game wasn't really inspiring enough to make time for.

I'm really getting annoyed with Pokerface. Seriously, what's with all this "appeal to emotion" bullshit? Do you honestly believe what I said was scummy? I can't even fathom how that could be. You look like you're reaching desperately for some kind of validation of your suspicions here. I really

want

to say it's scummy, but I might just be blinded by the fact that you're acting utterly foolish.

hmm i would sacrifice myself to kill sarcastro too

perhaps a sarcastro/elvis_knits blow-up should be arranged?

Actually, thinking about it more, there's no way a townie could have possibly said that.

unvote, vote sarcastro

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Sarcastro, maybe, but I definitely wouldn't want to see elvis_knits blown up today.

[Quagmire]

Sarcastro, maybe, but I definitely wouldn't want to see elvis_knits blown up today.

I will be dissapointed if Sarcastro doesn't get blown up today.

[NabakovNabakov]

Yos's response? All he said was sorry if he comes off condescending. What am I supposed to do with that? Anyone would say that. It changes nothing.

I never made any judgement on CES's reasons for voting Yos. I do think the two-night-tell is nonsense. I was only commenting on Yos's reaction, which I didn't like. And I do think saying "you're smarter than that" implies the person is acting stupid. It's a slightly disguised insult. And a manipulative way to get somebody off your back.

If you think the so-called tell is nonesense, then do you disagree with me that CES is a better player then to be using such nonesense tells?

I might have come off as condecending there; I need to stop doing that in mafia games, it's not helpful, and I apoligise to CES if I offended him. But that's besides the point; the point is that CES is a good player, and he should be trying harder to make a good case instead of spouting nonesense like that; that kind of nonesense case against someone I personally know to be pro-town, coming from a good player like CES, makes me more suspicious of him.

One sentence in three isn't bad. You're just lucky he uses a lot of semicolons.


Sarcastro's defense hasn't been an appeal to emotion, but it's certainly been bullshit. Posting a non-defense and then railing on somebody who notes it's a non-defense completely skirts the issue at hand. A slow-burn red-herring.

[Yosarian2]

Sarcastro, maybe, but I definitely wouldn't want to see elvis_knits blown up today.

That's kind of an unexpected comment. Why, exactally, do you think Elvis_knits is pro-town?

[Sarcastro]

Sarcastro's defense hasn't been an appeal to emotion, but it's certainly been bullshit. Posting a non-defense and then railing on somebody who notes it's a non-defense completely skirts the issue at hand. A slow-burn red-herring.

I didn't rail on somebody who "note[d] it's a non-defense". I railed on somebody who tried to argue that it

was

a defense. Read Pokerface's posts. He seems to think that I was actually trying to use an emotional appeal as a defence.

Also, Quag is full of shit.

Also, CES is scum.

Also, if you bastards let Yos live to endgame I will kill you all. I remember what happened with MoS in Bad Idea II.

I expect that there's a good chance I'll have to make the kill today, which is understandable.

[NabakovNabakov]

Sarcastro's defense hasn't been an appeal to emotion, but it's certainly been bullshit. Posting a non-defense and then railing on somebody who notes it's a non-defense completely skirts the issue at hand. A slow-burn red-herring.

I didn't rail on somebody who "note[d] it's a non-defense". I railed on somebody who tried to argue that it

was

a defense. Read Pokerface's posts. He seems to think that I was actually trying to use an emotional appeal as a defence.

Present most people with something that doesn't make sense and they'll try and add their own. Either way, non-sequiter = non-defense = appeal to emotion.

[Sarcastro]

Sarcastro's defense hasn't been an appeal to emotion, but it's certainly been bullshit. Posting a non-defense and then railing on somebody who notes it's a non-defense completely skirts the issue at hand. A slow-burn red-herring.

I didn't rail on somebody who "note[d] it's a non-defense". I railed on somebody who tried to argue that it

was

a defense. Read Pokerface's posts. He seems to think that I was actually trying to use an emotional appeal as a defence.

Present most people with something that doesn't make sense and they'll try and add their own. Either way, non-sequiter = non-defense = appeal to emotion.

That's fantastically bad logic. How can it be an appeal to emotion if it's not an appeal?

[pickemgenius]

need more elvis blowing up surye.

[NabakovNabakov]

That's fantastically bad logic. How can it be an appeal to emotion if it's not an appeal?

Who said it wasn't an appeal? I said it wasn't a defense. A non-sequiter and an appeal to emotion are both ineffectual arguments (especially in Mafia). What does it matter that PF said it was one and not the other?

No matter what fallacy it represented, your response to PF's serious case was sophmoric and insubstantial. You try to brush that off by making proclamations, and you try to brush

that

off by being a dick about terms. Why don't you just read what PF had to say and respond to it?

[PokerFace]

That doesn't really look like a genuine appeal to emotion to me. It looks more like a lazy defence. I'd suggest that you come over to the correct wagon, and I'd

strongly

suggest that you don't blow up a guy that nobody else finds suspicious.

Sorry for lurking, guys - I had a brutal week of essays and exams and this game wasn't really inspiring enough to make time for.

I'm really getting annoyed with Pokerface. Seriously, what's with all this "appeal to emotion" bullshit? Do you honestly believe what I said was scummy? I can't even fathom how that could be. You look like you're reaching desperately for some kind of validation of your suspicions here. I really

want

to say it's scummy, but I might just be blinded by the fact that you're acting utterly foolish.

Sarcastro's defense hasn't been an appeal to emotion, but it's certainly been bullshit. Posting a non-defense and then railing on somebody who notes it's a non-defense completely skirts the issue at hand. A slow-burn red-herring.

I didn't rail on somebody who "note[d] it's a non-defense". I railed on somebody who tried to argue that it

was

a defense. Read Pokerface's posts. He seems to think that I was actually trying to use an emotional appeal as a defence.

Present most people with something that doesn't make sense and they'll try and add their own. Either way, non-sequiter = non-defense = appeal to emotion.

Alright I guess calling it a non-defence is more sensible conclusion then the one I originally made.
The post I made which preceded your non-defense said the following pretaining to you:

...Sarcastro has made alot of posts with feeble amounts of content. He implies someone should kill quagmire for no reason at all at one point and then he says the same thing about Yosarian2 a day or two later. I'd like to see him provide more content or at least one real case on somebody.

I think somebody should kill Quag.

So anyway, I hear Yos is scum.

Skruffs, stop acting foolish. Asking whether or not LML killed Ooba had nothing to do with whether or not I want day to end. Your logic is nonsense. Why would I feel the need to "encourage further stimulation"? What does that even mean?

Since when do people act smart in Bad Idea-type games?

I'm talking about people in general.

He says no one acts smart in this killing games which is true from a Bad Idea perspective, but in Bad Idea II I seem to remember him providing alot of content as he tried to convince people not to go on killing sprees. I read that game awhile back and I would expect a town sarcastro to be doing to same stuff here instead of ordering people to take out Quagmire and Yosarian without reasons.

Vote: Sarcastro

...I can see where you guys are coming from on Surye but I think Sarcastro really needs to do more. I'd apreciate it if him and CES both went into detail over who they think is scum and why instead of just quick sentences. Who would you two guys vote for as being scum. I don't think you guys have voted at all this game. You've just been saying so-and-so needs shot or is scum.

And one of your recent posts also says certain players are scum without giving reason why?

Sarcastro's defense hasn't been an appeal to emotion, but it's certainly been bullshit. Posting a non-defense and then railing on somebody who notes it's a non-defense completely skirts the issue at hand. A slow-burn red-herring.

I didn't rail on somebody who "note[d] it's a non-defense". I railed on somebody who tried to argue that it

was

a defense. Read Pokerface's posts. He seems to think that I was actually trying to use an emotional appeal as a defence.

Also, Quag is full of shit.

Also, CES is scum.

Also, if you bastards let Yos live to endgame I will kill you all. I remember what happened with MoS in Bad Idea II.

I expect that there's a good chance I'll have to make the kill today, which is understandable.

Think you could give a case or vote somebody?
You can comment on anything from my last post left out here but higher up on the page if you want to too.

Also

@Elmo and Marmalade, its been about a week since you 2 have posted. Care to comment on anything? Any case or opinion you have on anybody?
@Mod: Stoofer please prod.

I am going to repeat something that was brought up earlier for emphasis. We are going to need to come to some consensus/majority decision by the deadline which is set at May 2nd last I checked. Not sure if Stoofer goes by 12:01am or 11:59pm of that day for his deadlines but regardless we need to get somewhere soon. Three or four days before the deadline April 29-30 I think who ever has the most votes should be pressured to strike a light so that they can blow up the second scumiest by May 1st in case the second scumiest should refuse to suicide with them immediatly.

[Elmo]

^ has good timing. Or better than mine, it appears.

Yos: No harm, no foul.

So the score so far is that all Skitzer has done is lied, mislead, and lurked?

There doesn't seem to be any analysis of your own, here. What's up with that?

I'm pretty sure that the 'appeal to emotion' is just blithe sarcasm.

Mmm. Tentative

vote

:

Erg0

.
NabNab: Should Sarc die today? Why?
Claus: Why do you believe scum would be

more

likely to be active in this environment?