Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[Surye]

Surye is giving DGB waaay to many powers. What kind of role can perform a kill and an investigation in the same night while completely covering its tracks?

Um, I'm not suggesting that at all? There's more then one scum per team, one of the others could do the kill, she could investigate as a corrupt cop role, no stretch at all.

I know who you REPORTED, not who you investigated. You could have EASILY sent in a false report.

I cannot do this. I'm sure the other investigators do not have such a choice either. I do not send the report. The report is sent by the Mod.

1) How do I know that's how reports work?
2) How do you think a corrupt cop role would work?

Please DGB, I ask you to specifically address this question.

As you saying you can't forge a report as corrupt cop is idiotic, and it sounds like you're trying to confuse the point. You're convincing me more and more.

No matter how you spin it, EVERY play you've made in this game has been oppurtunistic,

all of them looking very town

, but often not actualy helping the town (though killing scum was nice).

How can they be opportunistic, AND looking very town???

Easy, do and say town things that are too late to be useful.

What??? What's wrong with you, Surye? If you weren't mayor, I would totally call you out for being scum.

Lets see, examples of being opportunistic AND looking very town:

- Return an investigation that is truthful.

Town

- Know the results would be useless by the time town gets it (since the investigated is dead.

Opportunistic

- Shoot scum.

Town

- Know from previous night it was opposing scum.

Opportunistic

Tell me everyone else, do you all find it as hard to believe as DGB that an action can be opportunistic and appear town?

[Surye]

The main reason my suspicious remain getting stronger is that she is playing dumb, I cannot believe she keeps missing my point, and can keep making such non-sequitor arguments.

[Natirasha]

I can confirm that the mod writes reports. I have no control over what's in mine or I wouldn't of put the "illegal activities" in Nab's.

[DrippingGoofball]

1) How do I know that's how reports work?

Because I've never been asked to write up a report for you. I only specify whether you are copied on it, or not.

2) How do you think a corrupt cop role would work?

Please DGB, I ask you to specifically address this question.

As you saying you can't forge a report as corrupt cop is idiotic, and it sounds like you're trying to confuse the point. You're convincing me more and more.

I have no clue. Anything is possible. What is strange is that you're picking me out as corrupt cop because I killed a scum, and you think I knew Dasquian was scum because I investigated him, which is preposterous, since there really was no hint of Dasquian being a scum candidate whatsoever.

Lets see, examples of being opportunistic AND looking very town:

- Return an investigation that is truthful.

Town

- Know the results would be useless by the time town gets it (since the investigated is dead.

Opportunistic

What is wrong with you... you KNOW who I investigated, how is this at once truthful (which you know) and cannot possibly be opportunistic (I can't help he was bloody nightkilled!)? How is that opportunistic? Unfortunate, but opportunistic?

- Shoot scum.

Town

- Know from previous night it was opposing scum.

Opportunistic

Again, why on Earth would I investigate Dasquian, of all players? And why would I just shoot him instead of announcing I have a guilty result, and make up a story that makes me look even stupider than my reputation suggests?

[DrippingGoofball]

The main reason my suspicious remain getting stronger is that she is playing dumb, I cannot believe she keeps missing my point, and can keep making such non-sequitor arguments.

This has got to be the first time that someone suggests that I am not, in fact, at least as dumb as I look.

I am so baffled, I am beginning to consider the possibility of a corrupt mayor. It's just too much. Surye's earlier play was logical and cogent, I don't understand the Jekyll and Hyde personality change.

[Awesome Pants]

I'm tending to believe DGB here. Surye's points seem too far fetched for my liking, sure it is possibly that dgb could be scum, but I think it's far more likely that he's town.

Also, I know it's from a while back now but do you have any thoughts about my post 1073 Surye?

[armlx]

DGB could forage a report still, don't police have ??? actions to fool around with? Just saying that the possibility can't be ruled out, though I doubt the entire scenario.

[Surye]

What is wrong with you... you KNOW who I investigated, how is this at once truthful (which you know) and cannot possibly be opportunistic (I can't help he was bloody nightkilled!)? How is that opportunistic? Unfortunate, but opportunistic?

You're not reading anything I'm writing :/ How do I know who you investigated? The report? If I am told by the mod I suspect a corrupt cop, then is it not reasonable to think that the corrupt cop would give incorrect reports?

Seriously, everyone else in this game must see that you keep missing this.

[Surye]

I'm tending to believe DGB here. Surye's points seem too far fetched for my liking, sure it is possibly that dgb could be scum, but I think it's far more likely that he's town.

Also, I know it's from a while back now but do you have any thoughts about my post 1073 Surye?

My ideas are not that farfetched, and DGB's repeated and apparent refusal to comprehend my point is making them much more likely.


And I don't really have any thoughts on that post, my situation is that I get reports, what cops do, or what corrupt cops may do, I have no idea.

DGB, let me try to reword this yet again, okay?

Assume you are corrupt cop for a moment.
If you send in a report, would the contents be something that I could trust? Or would the contents likely be manipulated or forged in order to further your cause? Your point and defense is that I know what you did based on your report. This is begging the question, because trusting your report assumes I trust you are the cop. You cannot prove you are not the corrupt cop because I can trust your report. It's a very simple logical fallacy.

If everyone is as sick of me having to repeat myself over and over, we can move on, but I have little doubt left about DGB.

[DrippingGoofball]

My ideas are not that farfetched, and DGB's repeated and apparent refusal to comprehend my point is making them much more likely.

No... the number of improbably events required for you to be right is just too large to make it even remotely likely.

It requires the following:

(1) That I was truthful about investigating the dead guy Night 0, and that the Mod sent you an appropriate report of the investigation - but somehow I was "opportunistic."
(2) That last night I chose to investigate a player that looked absolutely townie to everyone including myself, and had not posted a single scummy word all game. And jackpot! He'd be scum from an opposing scumteam!
(3) That I investigated skitzer as you suggested to me by PM, but that I sent a false report that only covers up the name of the person I investigated.
(4) That I would have chosen to hide my Dasquian investigation rather than tell you "hey look, I'd rather investigate Dasquian, I find him scummier than skitzer" and let YOU get people to lynch Dasquian if he's scum. What motive would I have to hide a Dasquian investigation??? It's absurd...

The entire scenario doesn't make any sense, anywhere. The mechanics, the motives, the amount of luck and crystal ball action are all wrong.

Assume you are corrupt cop for a moment.
If you send in a report, would the contents be something that I could trust? Or would the contents likely be manipulated or forged in order to further your cause? Your point and defense is that I know what you did based on your report. This is begging the question, because trusting your report assumes I trust you are the cop. You cannot prove you are not the corrupt cop because I can trust your report. It's a very simple logical fallacy.

But last night, you were not even supposed to have received a report, because I did not ask for one to be sent. If somehow you got one, it would have been that skitzer, whom I investigated at your behest, was innocent.

And something else... Assuming 6 mafiates, 3 in each faction, since I've killed one mafiate, I hope you realize the far-fetchedness of my gunning down a buddy in broad daylight over my own comprehension mistake, a buddy that was carrying out the "perfect game" to boot... so I'd have to be the last remaining member of the other faction, and through some incredible stroke of luck, decided to investigate a player that was totally not scummy... the odds of this happening are infinitesimally small.

Either you know something that you aren't telling us and interpreting it wrong, or you are a corrupt mayor.

I can not comprehend your motives, Surye. I don't know what you're up to anymore, but I no longer believe you are as trustworthy as I once thought you were.

[DrippingGoofball]

For the record, my rolename is not "cop."

I just thought of something.

Surye, the two scum that you led us to, were Sicilian mafiates.

I've accidentally killed a Corsican mafiate.

Suddenly, you have a bee in your bonnet with me.

If you were a Corsican mafiate, and you knew that cops had investigated your buddies, and knew the results, you'd HAVE to bus them. And now, because I killed a Corsican mafiate, you've turned absurdly paranoid.

I have thought long and hard about it. I think it's the right thing to do at this point.

vote: Surye

[Surye]

My ideas are not that farfetched, and DGB's repeated and apparent refusal to comprehend my point is making them much more likely.

No... the number of improbably events required for you to be right is just too large to make it even remotely likely.

It requires the following:

(1) That I was truthful about investigating the dead guy Night 0, and that the Mod sent you an appropriate report of the investigation - but somehow I was "opportunistic."
(2) That last night I chose to investigate a player that looked absolutely townie to everyone including myself, and had not posted a single scummy word all game. And jackpot! He'd be scum from an opposing scumteam!
(3) That I investigated skitzer as you suggested to me by PM, but that I sent a false report that only covers up the name of the person I investigated.
(4) That I would have chosen to hide my Dasquian investigation rather than tell you "hey look, I'd rather investigate Dasquian, I find him scummier than skitzer" and let YOU get people to lynch Dasquian if he's scum. What motive would I have to hide a Dasquian investigation??? It's absurd...

(1) This is not what I said, I agreed you probably did not investigate Das N1, but could have easily N0. This is my current idea for a while now, keep up.
(2) See above, he would have seemed neither town nor scum N0, so this point is irrelevant.
(3) This assertion is counter point to your own (1).
(4) This is a good point.

Honestly, my main problem with you is that you seem to evade my real points and strawman me on little points that I clarified pages ago. The more I argue my original case, the more I see flaws in it, these are some of the points you should have brought up.

If you investigated Das, killed Flameaxe, and reported Flameaxe innocent, he could have been from an opposite scum team, and you would have revealed to have been a liar right off the bat. That chance is too great for this scenario to be plausible after some more thought.

All in all, I think my original argument has sufficient flaws after attempting to defend it, but it still rubs me the wrong way the WAY she was defending it, completely ignoring most of what I was saying, and arguing points that were not even what I was saying. Maybe it was missunderstanding. I still think I was being quite clear.

Anyways,

Unvote

for now as we have bigger fish to fry as long as DGB is all bound up.

[Surye]

For the record, my rolename is not "cop."

I just thought of something.

Surye, the two scum that you led us to, were Sicilian mafiates.

I've accidentally killed a Corsican mafiate.

Suddenly, you have a bee in your bonnet with me.

If you were a Corsican mafiate, and you knew that cops had investigated your buddies, and knew the results, you'd HAVE to bus them. And now, because I killed a Corsican mafiate, you've turned absurdly paranoid.

I have thought long and hard about it. I think it's the right thing to do at this point.

vote: Surye

Heh, this is an interesting theory, but how do you explain that the cops that gave me those reports have not raised a red flag? Or do you think they are mafia too? Think there are 5+ in one team? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.

[armlx]

This discussion is doing nothing good. Just drowning in a sea of WIFOM.

BTW, what was the scum win condition in the first game? I was reading the recap and was confused as to how it suddenly ended....

Back to attacking Hjallti, Crub, Awesome Pants, SL, Sensfan, Sykedoc? You know, people who the mayor hasn't confirmed as cops and haven't been investigated?

SL is at the top of the list, then Hjallti, then Crub/Awesome, then Sensfan, then Sykedoc at the bottom IMHO.

Vote SL

[DrippingGoofball]

[quote="Surye... but how do you explain that the cops that gave me those reports have not raised a red flag? Or do you think they are mafia too? Think there are 5+ in one team? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.[/quote]Because these other cops haven't taken the initiative to directly kill a scum from your team? Could be.

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP

... but how do you explain that the cops that gave me those reports have not raised a red flag? Or do you think they are mafia too? Think there are 5+ in one team? Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.

Because these other cops haven't taken the initiative to directly kill a scum from your team? Could be.

[DrippingGoofball]

(1) This is not what I said, I agreed you probably did not investigate Das N1, but could have easily N0. This is my current idea for a while now, keep up. -

But you got a report from my investigation on Night 0.

(2) See above, he would have seemed neither town nor scum N0, so this point is irrelevant. -

That is HUGELY far fetched. This is the most far fetched conspiracy theory I've ever seen.

(3) This assertion is counter point to your own (1). -

The MOD sends the report. I don't write them. Natirisha doesn't write them, either. I don't know about the rest, but that's two of us that don't.

(4) This is a good point. -

No kidding.

If you investigated Das, killed Flameaxe, and reported Flameaxe innocent, he could have been from an opposite scum team, and you would have revealed to have been a liar right off the bat. That chance is too great for this scenario to be plausible after some more thought.

How many powers do you think I have?

All in all, I think my original argument has sufficient flaws after attempting to defend it, but it still rubs me the wrong way the WAY she was defending it, completely ignoring most of what I was saying, and arguing points that were not even what I was saying. Maybe it was missunderstanding. I still think I was being quite clear.
Anyways,

Unvote

for now as we have bigger fish to fry as long as DGB is all bound up.

My vote on you, stays. I know you won't be lynched, so it's largely symbolic. You have severely undermined my confidence about your alignment being town. You have convinced me, by your illogical vendetta over my killing of a Corsican Scumbag, that you may be a dirty mayor. I'm not sure how I am going to ever shake that off.

[DrippingGoofball]

SL is at the top of the list, then Hjallti, then Crub/Awesome, then Sensfan, then Sykedoc at the bottom IMHO.

Vote SL

SF has been replaced in another game. Maybe he needs replacing here too.

[armlx]

Ok, he still falls under the critera for that list.

[SensFan]

SL is at the top of the list, then Hjallti, then Crub/Awesome, then Sensfan, then Sykedoc at the bottom IMHO.

Vote SL

SF has been replaced in another game. Maybe he needs replacing here too.

Nah, I'm here. Was meaning to catch up here over the weekend, but I forgot I was going camping.

Anyways, I really don't see the possibility of Surye being corrupt worth anything, really. For one, the game would be broken right off the bat, seeing as he has the names of every single Cop in the game.

[Hjallti]

I have been prodded and am just posting now therefor.

I will post real content tomorrow. This morning my computerscreen narrowed to a single line of pixels so I have to play from work, and I have no time today to do so.

[Singing Librarian]

At present, speculation about the alignment of the cops and mayor is likely to get us nowhere. I suppose the cops could investigate each other and Surye, but that would be a waste of a night's worth of investigations, in my opinion, particularly as the outed cops probably don't have long to live night-wise.

So, yes, investigation should turn to those of us not confirmed or claimed in any way - Armlx is right about that. However, the most suspicious thing I can see from any of this group is Awesome Pants' insistence on pushing his setup speculation in post 1073. I don't know why it rings mild alarm bells, but it does - perhaps because I don't really understand what he's getting at, so really can't see why he has reminded Surye about his post in both of the posts he's made since.

[Surye]

(1) This is not what I said, I agreed you probably did not investigate Das N1, but could have easily N0. This is my current idea for a while now, keep up. -

But you got a report from my investigation on Night 0.

You're an idiot, that's got to be it now. I don't care what you sent me, the corrupt cop role would be able to send false reports, period.

[Surye]

And that's all I will say to DGB at this point, like I said, after thinking about it she's likely not scum, but her refusal to believe in a corrupt cop that can send false reports is annoying at best, and suspicious at worst.

[DrippingGoofball]

You're an idiot, that's got to be it now. I don't care what you sent me, the corrupt cop role would be able to send false reports, period.

Except for the corrupt cop himself, do we even know in what way he'd be corrupt? Maybe corrupt cop doesn't mean the ability to falsify records.