Newbie 594: (Game Over!)

[Nocmen]

Well, the longer this goes on, the less chance of actually being able to tell if someone hammers him because he was scummy or if he is being hammered because someone wants to move the game on and get out of Day 1.

The "risk" I took in 155 was seeing if someone would be anxious to go and hammer him when I put him and L-1. Now it's past that chance of being feasible, so

unvote[/b[

[Nocmen]

Unvote

. Stupid tags.

[zu_Faul]

That is actually really unreliable.
It's completely possible he acts differently as cop then as town, now isn't it?

Are my accusations unreliable as well?

@Nocmen: Didn't you see my last post? I thought it was worth at least a comment from you.

[BlackWolf]

Yours are enough for a FoS...it'd be suspicious if you pushed a vote without more reasoning though.
But personally, I don't think a meta is reason enough for a vote, regardless of what it is. People can act differently over a forum easily enough.

Are we actually going to get a replacement for him? I ask out of curiosity, and because a couple people have mentioned it...

[gorillaman]

I don't think zu's accusation against me was based on a meta. He took a look at my play and made a fair comment.

I'd also like to know what's happening with Rickeon.

[BlackWolf]

My mistake, I thought he meant the FoS of Bat, Nocmen, and Atticus.... ><

Your accusation of gorillaman sitting on the sidelines...
Well, the activity of this game is rather slow...it is reasonable.
But then again, the same can be said of a couple other people in this game.

[Nocmen]

That is actually really unreliable.
It's completely possible he acts differently as cop then as town, now isn't it?

Are my accusations unreliable as well?

@Nocmen: Didn't you see my last post? I thought it was worth at least a comment from you.

I understood what you said completely. My whole vote was somewhat of a risk, hence the "Let's take a risk". I was sort of hoping someone would get really anxious to go and hammer and we would be able to have one of the scum guaranteed for tomorrow. I was going to give it 5 days exactly, as that's usually my period for inactivity or something. By the time that rolled around, I retracted my vote because it would be challenging to distinguish a vote because he was inactive and a vote because someone wanted to hammer when they got the chance.

[Atticus]

Sounds

like a good enough explanation.

[Battousai]

Sorry for the inactivity, computer problems. Time to catch up a bit.

I don't know whether all of you missed that he hasn't been on L-1 for some time. If you did I think it is possible that some of you tried to warn your scum partner not to lynch him and make themselves seem very scummy. If you did not miss it I don't know what you wanted to accomplish.

FOS: Battousai, Nocmen, Atticus

I notice you didn't FOS blackwolf for his post: "If the scum is stupid enough to hammer now, let 'em.
It'll only mean we know who at least one of the scum are."

We were keeping our votes on blackwolf, what about that made you think it would be possible to warn our scum partner of the hammer more than blackwolf's post?

The reason for my vote was to get him to talk if he was still active and lurking. It seems Nocmen's plan was to try and get scum to hammer him and thus revealing themselves. Atticus's vote, from what I gather, was that he thought rickeon was truely scummy.

Now something I find interesting. Zu, you had your vote on Rickeon for quite some time, then when he went to L-1, you suddenly switch to gorrillaman for not scumhunting and instead sitting on the sidelines. Why gorrillaman? I find that random since silence was also doing the exact same, and rickeon was MIA, so he couldn't be scumhunting.

FOS: ZU_FAUL

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Rickeon (1): Battousai
Battousai (1): split9102
gorillaman (1): Zu_faul

Not voting (6): silence, Rickeon, BlackWolf, gorillaman, Atticus, Nocmen

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

Neither split9102 nor Rickeon has picked up their latest prod. Looking for replacements for them now. Prodded silence.

[bird1111]

Mr. Blonde replaces Rickeon.

Still searching for a split9102 replacement.

[silence]

Hi, I am here, was a few days away. I'll read and comment today.

[silence]

If you did I think it is possible that some of you tried to warn your scum partner not to lynch him and make themselves seem very scummy.

FOS: Battousai, Nocmen, Atticus

Shouldn't this logic equivalently apply to your own voting of gorillaman too? By getting Rickeon out of L-1 you ensured that your scum partner does not lynch him and make himself look very scummy?

Anyway, as they all (per this logic) 'warned their partners', at least one protownie did this and thus it probably isn't much of a scumtell.

[Mr. Blonde]

Mr. Blond replaces Rickeon.

/confirming replacement.

I shall be going through the whole discussion and I shall make my analysis. Hello everybody!

[Mr. Blonde]

(Reminding everybody that I'm replacing Rickeon... and title is Mr. Blonde, not Blond . I have active playstyle and you'll find me posting more often than Rickeon.

I won't be defending Rickeon's inactivity... the guy got replaced and you can draw the conclusions you want. I'm - like said - more active poster.

Now... to my analysis

Nocmen, post 24

As for my question, I played it out there because I want to see the way everyone's tone and answers are, and how they vary in interpretation and choice. It's one of my favorite ways of getting a feel for the other players in the game, ask them questions. And I think that everyone should be answering questions, and I have no problem answering or having others diligently ask their own.

Sound bit defensive, but nothing really harmful there.

---

split9102

Hmm... No list of suspicions yet.

Quite on the contrary... in my books everybody is a scum until proven otherwise.

---
In post 38, a FOS: Atticus was made (by Battousai)

zu_Faul voting Battousai

... even when he was merely pointing finger. I find this type of behavior either testing somebody... or as an aggressive attack trying to get attention away from himself...


---
Post 44: Nocmen gives a big list of items. Is he being a good townie... or a scum pretending to be one...?

---

Vote Count:
Battousai (2): Zu_faul, split9102
silence (1): Atticus
BlackWolf (1): Nocmen

Not voting (5): silence, Rickeon, BlackWolf, gorillaman, Battousai

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

---
Battousai: (post 93)

I was holding my vote until I had something else to add on, like your post 78. That made you stand out more in my eyes.

Post 78 contains:

Eh, just wanted to see reactions.

Although zu_faul hasn't posted since then anyways, at least I got reactions from 5 different people.

Seems I get a vote, too...

What exactly was suspicious in this post?


---
In post 106 Battousai might be really interested about "rickeon lurking"... or perhaps tries to draw attention away from him (Battoussau had 2 votes on him)

Well rickeon, could you comment on Blackwolf's vote and his posts after that? That would be something.

---
Post 129, Battousai:

I'm still sticking with my vote on BlackWolf. His vote with contradictions and his excuse afterwards give off a scum vibe to me and I think he is the best bet right now to lynch scum.

It would be good if you could remind "what contradictions" and "excuses" are most striking to you?

---
Battousai in post 149:

I actually do prefer to be scum. I've been trying out different strategies as town, and this game I'm being more aggressive than I normally am, especially when Im scum.

Telling about "different strategies" sounds bit like an excuse to me...

Post subject: 152

Vote Count:
Rickeon (2): Zu_faul, Atticus
BlackWolf (1): Battousai
Battousai (1): split9102

Not voting (5): silence, Rickeon, BlackWolf, gorillaman, Nocmen

With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.

----
Battousai, post 183:

The reason for my vote was to get him to talk if he was still active and lurking. It seems Nocmen's plan was to try and get scum to hammer him and thus revealing themselves. Atticus's vote, from what I gather, was that he thought rickeon was truely scummy.

Can you exactly point out "how did you know that Atticus thought that I (rickeon) was truely a scumy"?

And how can you make up such "plan" that Nocmen had?

We cannot know different people's "plans", yet you seem to be creating paranoia and accusing people back and forth.... and the logic is not always so solid.

I'll raise my hand... and

FoS Battousai

:
- You've been accusing people and having "solid" reasons for this
- You've been "knowing" what plans other people have
- You've been trying to turn attention away when you've got 2 votes for you
- Your "Post 93" is very suspicious: you have voted people, yet for some reason you suddenly have "waited to get more proof"
- In "post 129" you were convinved that Blackwolf is the scum, and that we ought to lynch the scum right now ("I think he is the best bet right now to lynch scum."). What made you change your vote on me?

Also,

FoS: Zu_faul

- you have some explaining to do:
- You have switched your vote to the one who gets most vote? Is this "scum hoping that others would join the vote?"


That's it for now... these were the first comments that caught my eye when I started reading the posts. I'll be checking everybody's comments later, but for now - it would be nice to hear some answers.

[Mr. Blonde]

Hopefully you don't mind if I double, triple (or quadruple ) reply, since I need to read all pages & sum up everything & and it takes some time to do that as a replacement... and I want to keep the game going & add replies. Hopefully you'll bare with me.

After finishing my vodka smoothie, I took my notepad and went through the comments I heard Nocmen saying...


Nocmen:

Post: 158

Thank you (BlackWolf) for pointing out what the action the scum need to take here.

Nocmen, you look bit like you've taken the role of "townie who seeks the scum". I say "role"... because to me it looks like you are good at connecting A & B... and drawing C when necessary.

You said that BlackWolf "pointed out what the action the scum need"... If you are a mob, then you might have better focus on "what scum needs to do" than a regular townie. And now - you are the guy who *confirms out loud* what action scum need to do. I find this pretty suspicious.

silence & Atticus (posts 160 and 161) agree on the fact that "he didn't point out anything not obvious".

---

Nocmen (post 116)
Claims that his vote against me (Rickeon) was for pressure... and then saying "I can remove it for now". Is this something he will try to use in the future to prove that he is no scum?

A scum could always say that he made the "first or second" vote just for "giving pressure".

Naturally this of course *can* be real, so no true judgements can be made. But "giving pressure" doesn't prove one townie (which - in my eyes - you work hard to look like one).

---

Battousai claims that "L-2" for Rickeon (post 154) since he has not posted... and then Nocmen (who keeps track on EVERYTHING) comes to say in post 155 Rickeon being silent, really? (acting "surprised") and that "he takes a risk".

In post 175 (+176) Nocmen unvotes and it was a "risk to see if someone would be anxious to go and hammer him?"

What risk is there to see if somebody is anxious to hammer? I think that's exactly the opposite for townies?

On post 181 you say:

I was sort of hoping someone would get really anxious to go and hammer and we would be able to have one of the scum guaranteed for tomorrow. I was going to give it 5 days exactly, as that's usually my period for inactivity or something. By the time that rolled around,

I retracted my vote because it would be challenging to distinguish a vote because he was inactive

and a vote because someone wanted to hammer when they got the chance.

What do you mean by saying that "it would be challenging to distinguish a vote because he (Rickeon/me) was inactive? I think it doesn't matter if Ricken (my predecessor) was silent. All that matters is if somebody is

active

to get him hammered... right?

---

I would really like to know exactly:
1) what risk there was?
2) and if you were setting up a trap for scum, then what exactly does it matter if my predecessor (Rickeon) was inactive?
3) Why did you

unvote

me before I got the chance to say anything? (Bearing in mind: You were the one who pointed finger to BlackWolf when he unvoted (post 73))
4) You've been tracking everybody since the beginning... how come you said "Is that true?" in post 155? You seem to be keeping track on everybody (you even say something like "Rickeon having too few post for me judge" in the earlier posts), but somehow didn't "notice" that Rickeon was being inactive? Are you trying to make a "harmless vote", so that you could not be blamed afterwards? I find this extremely suspicious... and think you *acted* the whole comment as "surprised"?


This requires....

FoS: Nocmen

[Nocmen]

The risk was that it could possibly go on for too long, giving anyone who hammered a semivalid defense as to why they did so, and the fact that we would be losing someone who very well could be town. The main thing of his suspicious was that he was inactive and hadn't said much. I unvoted him because anyone could have hammered and just said "I wanted to get this game moving a bit so I got rid of dead weight" which is in a game like this a decent reason. There was nothing much else to gain from someone hammering him at that time.

As for my comment about his inactivity, I'm not always fully keeping track of stuff. Early on I only said that because I went through the thread once, and then went through everyone's posts induvidually when I made that post. Having a low number of posts when I did that, that's how I knew he was not posting much at that time. Later on, I had been checking up on this game but not as much as other games, and I didn't realize how long it had been since Rickeon actually posted until someone pointed it out and I looked at it.

[Mr. Blonde]

The risk was that it could possibly go on for too long, giving anyone who hammered a semivalid defense as to why they did so, and the fact that we would be losing someone who very well could be town.

"Semivalid defense"? Anybody participating in day 1 lynch does definitely

not

have a semivalid defense, no matter who is lynched - and definitely not "because he was away".

Besides why

you

vote? Guy already had votes on him - why you took that risk?

Any townie could have simply said that he shall wait the guy to reply. I see no point in your vote - and then unvote.

This smells like a fishy excuse from you... A really fishy excuse.

"anyone could have hammered and just said "I wanted to get this game moving a bit so I got rid of dead weight"

I think that's underestimating other players. I believe everybody here wants to

win

... and if we just assume "there are poor players who will ruin it" then there's not much point joining the game in the first place.

This sounds another excuse to me...

Later on, I had been checking up on this game but not as much as other games, and I didn't realize how long it had been since Rickeon actually posted until someone pointed it out and I looked at it.

Okay... but WHY write "Is that true?" in the thread. You could have simply checked out his status and confirm what Battousai says and vote. The fact that you said "Is that really so...?" seems like a "made up remark". It is quite suspicious, especially it hasn't been your style to make such remarks. You've been very investigative during the whole game - but looks like now you say that you dropped your notes (so to speak) and forgot what was going on or something like that?

Nocmen - your answers were not convincing, and doesn't really explain your actions.

Although, I want to hear what Battousai and Zu_faul has to say before jumping into conclusions...

Now... where can I get another smoothie...

[zu_Faul]

Also,

FoS: Zu_faul

- you have some explaining to do:
- You have switched your vote to the one who gets most vote? Is this "scum hoping that others would join the vote?"

I don't get it.

[Mr. Blonde]

Also,

FoS: Zu_faul

- you have some explaining to do:
- You have switched your vote to the one who gets most vote? Is this "scum hoping that others would join the vote?"

I don't get it.

I just checked vote counts and noticed couple of times that those people who had 2 votes... were having 1 vote from you.

[gorillaman]

Except that both times his was the first vote.

[zu_Faul]

Except that both times his was the first vote.

Exactly.

[Mr. Blonde]

Except that both times his was the first vote.

Oh... so it seems. I don't know how my eyes looked at those mod's Vote Count... but so it seems. My mistake.

*takes finger back slowly...*

[zu_Faul]

gorillaman still has yet to do any scumhunting.

[Nocmen]

Mr Blonde, but if you look at the majority of Day 1 lynches, they are still on townies. I would rather take out a townie who is dead weight and not contributing than another townie who is actually contributing, but has a little scumminess. Especially with F11, a townie death Day 1 doesn't put us in LyLo like it did with C9. If someone is hurting the town in general, like a lurker not contributing anything, this could hurt us a lot.

Maybe my remark was made up, but that is not anything to do with my alignment, sometimes you can't really keep track of everything.

But I do find your conclusions on the game a bit confusing. You say that zf could be trying to draw suspicion away from Atticus, as well at Battousai having a possible connection with Atticus (Though I find this not much more than him guessing at what Atticus's posts meant, as 131 is his reasons for voting Rickeon).

What really confuses me though is that zf goes and foses us on the wagon in post 174...when he was also voting on the wagon. ZF, care to comment?