Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Tarhalindur]

Beginning of

The End

Day 4

You wake up for yet another day, but things are not the same.

The morning news is gone (its reporters and anchors all left the county last night). The newspaper is gone, for the same reasons. All the businesses have closed, because their owners are too busy holing themselves up in their gated McMansion communities to do business. The government is closed for today, for the protection of its workers.

Finally, RangeroftheNorth is gone. That's not due to him leaving town, however - that's due to him getting sprayed with a few dozen rounds from a Tommy gun last night. He's been placed in the morgue, but the autopsy will have to wait until the coroner comes back.

The red sky deepens your sense of foreboding as the five survivors of the town meet at the square. Is this the end?

RangeroftheNorth, Vanilla Townie, Tommy-Gunned Night 3

[Tarhalindur]

It is now Day 4, LyLo.

Eighty-Second Vote Count:

Not Voting (5) - OhGodMyLife (rep. Ectomancer), Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan), Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz)

It will take 3 votes to lynch before deadline

FoS Count:

None

Current Deadline:

May 20, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 13, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

[Mizzy]

...

Monstrously-huge, as in "the size of my e-peen" huge,

FoS: Nyktorion

for being an opportunistic voter on SA and a giant smack-to-the-face

FoS: OGML

for calling shenanigans when I wasn't wrong.

I TOLD you guys those were town-tells. ARG. And I thought he was the vig, too, because of the post he made the next morning, but I wanted a claim out of him first. ARG.

/wrists

[Jester]

That was a pretty obvious night-kill. ROTN, when he was here, was extremely townish. Tar has also confirmed my interpretation of the game: the remaining players are three vanilla townies and two mafia members. Anybody wanna argue with that interpretation

now

?

I consider what OMGML and Nyktorion did to be incredibly scummy, but it seems fairly unlikely that both of them are scum. I also consider it pretty unlikely that they're on the same team. IMO, either:
:arrow: OMG is town and put together what he felt was an honest case against SA/TNE, and Nyktorion band-wagoned to ensure the townie lynch. This seems more likely to me. There were enough FOSes on the table that one vote placed on someone else would have moved the lynch.
:arrow: Alternately, OMG is scum, targeted SA/TNE, and Nyktorion got frustrated and hung his vote where he thought it would do the most good. I consider this possibility less likely. Nyktorion's vote reeked of opportunism to me.

There's little or no question in my mind that scum were involved in that lynch somewhere, though. SA clearly wasn't around to defend himself. Lynching him was scummy as hell.

More a bit later today. I'm still leaning toward Battousai/Nyktorion as scum partners, but I want to do a bit of analysis on where the lynch would have fallen based on a single vote somewhere else during D3.

MOD:

Tar, man, I know you're incredibly busy, but Ecto isn't in this game any more. Can the vote count be changed to reflect the players we have? Thanks.

That's what I get for using the Start of Day 3 post as the template for the Start of Day 4 post. Fixed! -Tar

[Jester]

Something Awesome (2) - OhGodMyLife, Nyktorion
Battousai (1) - Mizzy

Not Voting (4) - Battousai, RangeroftheNorth, Something Awesome, Jester


FoS Count:

Jester (2) - Nyktorion, OhGodMyLife
Battousai (2) - Jester, Mizzy
Nyktorion (1) - Jester
RangeroftheNorth (1) - OhGodMyLife
Something Awesome (1) - Nyktorion

Actually, it doesn't require much analysis at all, does it? Had Nyktorion not placed a second vote on SA, Battousai would have been lynched instead and/or we would have gone to RPS. I find that interesting.

Check out the timing. Nyktorion put down his SA vote 40 minutes after Mizzy put down her Battousai vote. I find that even more interesting.

Also, everyone remember that we're at lylo. If a townie places a vote on another townie today, the scum can swoop in and finish us. Night 3 ended on Tar's short deadline, which means that both of our scum are active and watching the thread frequently.

[Mizzy]

Actually, it doesn't require much analysis at all, does it? Had Nyktorion not placed a second vote on SA, Battousai would have been lynched instead and/or we would have gone to RPS. I find that interesting.

And remember, the scum can sacrifice one of themselves if they have to in order to frame or otherwise scummify a townie, so as WIFOM as it is, we can't immediately assume anything :/

[OhGodMyLife]

...

Monstrously-huge, as in "the size of my e-peen" huge,

FoS: Nyktorion

for being an opportunistic voter on SA and a giant smack-to-the-face

FoS: OGML

for calling shenanigans when I wasn't wrong.

I TOLD you guys those were town-tells. ARG. And I thought he was the vig, too, because of the post he made the next morning, but I wanted a claim out of him first. ARG.

/wrists

Mizzy, honestly, your proof that those were town tells was all extremely WIFOM, as I pointed it out when you brought it up at the 11th hour yesterday. I was checking in to this thread every day going "Hey guys lets talk about this," and nothing happened until one hour before the posted deadline. The fact that you

knew

that SA was town, like you knew that rosso was town, even though everybody else was in agreement that they looked scummy looks to me like it could be because you have the inside information to know they were innocent. I went with the best case I could find when there was not very much to go on, but at least there was some real evidence behind my vote. Likewise, Nyktorion's end of day vote should really come as no surprise to you considering that shortly after I voted for SA he agreed with me and thanked me for bringing it back to his attention.

@Jester: Dude, if you're seriously calling what Nyk and I did to secure a lynch yesterday scummy and not feeling the weight of hypocrisy around your neck you need to take a step back. You did nothing to help make sure a lynch happened, you didn't even check into the thread between April 30th and the deadline. I understand that your style is to make long posts every few days but these were extraordinary circumstances and if you didn't want crazy shit to go down because of the deadline lynching rules in this game you should have come back and helped us

come to a group consensus

.

I don't consider what Nyktorion did scummy in the least. He made a judgement call and brought the lynch to something that at least two people agreed upon. Mizzy and Jester, you call it scummy that we lynched SA, but hindsight is 20/20 (Jester) and apparently for some of us foresight is too. While you're so happily pointing out that between her vote and FoS Mizzy was changing the lynch from SA to Bat and that Nyk took the noose off of his neck, you're failing to take into account that she was trying to make a one woman decision at the last minute where I had been trying to make everyone come back and help me lynch Something Awesome or at least tell me why somebody else made a better lynch. I certainly wasn't going to go along with Mizzy's WIFOM defense of SA coupled with her even more WIFOM vote for Bat. This is as much the fault of the people who weren't here at the deadline as it is the people who were. We all knew the deadline lynching rules. You're getting righteous about what happened now but you didn't do anything about it when it was happening.

I warned everybody that waiting until the last minute and deadline lurking were scummy, scummy things to do, and they frakking well were.

FoS: Mizzy, Jester

[Mizzy]

Mizzy, honestly, your proof that those were town tells was all extremely WIFOM, as I pointed it out when you brought it up at the 11th hour yesterday. I was checking in to this thread every day going "Hey guys lets talk about this," and nothing happened until one hour before the posted deadline. The fact that you

knew

that SA was town, like you knew that rosso was town, even though everybody else was in agreement that they looked scummy looks to me like it could be because you have the inside information to know they were innocent. I went with the best case I could find when there was not very much to go on, but at least there was some real evidence behind my vote. Likewise, Nyktorion's end of day vote should really come as no surprise to you considering that shortly after I voted for SA he agreed with me and thanked me for bringing it back to his attention.

Talk about some bullshit for bullshit's sake here; I didn't KNOW he was townie, how could I? I never once said I knew he was for sure, but I did point out some elementary town-tells and tried to save him because honestly, your reasons for voting him where just as stupid. And then you OMGUS-FoS me after bitching about it yesterday that I did the same thing? Pfft, talk about hypocritical.

You whine about my fast action voting, and then excuse Nyktorion's? Again, what is

wrong

with you?

I don't consider what Nyktorion did scummy in the least.

Because you have some stellar history judging what is scummy and what isn't in this game. Right.

Mizzy and Jester, you call it scummy that we lynched SA, but hindsight is 20/20 (Jester) and apparently for some of us foresight is too.

I pointed out town-tells, told you my gut feelings, and then acted on them. The mislynch is your fault, and don't you dare take it out on anyone else. Thanks to your stellar scummy-performance, we are now in lylo.

As for my delayed reaction, need I remind you that I have a newborn to care for? I can't sit in a thread and camp it like other folks can...I post when and where I am able to and just because you want to deem it "last minute on purpose" doesn't make it so.

[Nyktorion]

That was a pretty obvious night-kill. ROTN, when he was here, was extremely townish. Tar has also confirmed my interpretation of the game: the remaining players are three vanilla townies and two mafia members. Anybody wanna argue with that interpretation

now

?

No.

Night 3 ended on Tar's short deadline, which means that both of our scum are active and watching the thread frequently.

The only ight action which has probably happened was the nightkill, so I think it would also be possible that only one of the two scums is active.

Now on to what seems to be the center of current interest, namely the last part of Day 3. As I think it would have become clear throughout the SK discussion, the reason why I used no votes before the end of Day 3 was that it was not really sure that we were not in LyLo at that time. Of course, the top of my list of suspicious had to be converted into a vote before deadline.

I do not think it should have been a surprise that my vote finally went to SA instead of Battousai, because their positions on my scumdar had been outlined 3 days before in #725. The reason for the timing of my answer to Mizzy's vote was that I was checking the thread more frequently at that time, since it was the evening of the deadline at that time (it was evening in my timezone, then).

Looking for the two scum among us I would start my search at the two remaining deadline lurkers (Jester and Battousai). For both of them, there are circumstances which make it stand out from their standard behaviour. For Jester, we have the fact that he first withdrew his vote before the deadline, and now is angry that we lynched the wrong person (see OGML's hypocrisy argument in #756). For Battousai, lurking for the duration he did in the last days is already by itself a notable change in behaviour. That this change occurred exactly at deadline makes him not look too good.

I would not call Mizzy scummy because of her attack, though. Other than Jester, she did actually try to do something at the end of Day 3. Although the lateness of the last discussion was surely unlucky or us (and I did not think that her towntells outweigh the scummyness of TNE, but now that I know it better, it is too late), any really malevolent intent I can imagine behind this action is already opposed by SA town-alignment.

FOS: Jester, FOS: Battousai

[Battousai]

Ok, I'm back. Had some computer problems, but all is well.

I get what OGML was saying about Mizzy, she picked up on a few town tells and said so, and what I think OGML is making of it is that she was able to pick up on them because she already knew they were pro town.

After reading the mafia tell list again, Mizzy seemed to fall under the last category. She complains about how bad we screwed up. The wiki says that is often a scum tell.

Jester:" I consider what OMGML and Nyktorion did to be incredibly scummy, but it seems fairly unlikely that both of them are scum. I also consider it pretty unlikely that they're on the same team."

I agree with this, because I think it is unlikely that BOTH scum would vote at deadline for a lynch, because that would out them both. Then again they could think we would think that resulting in WIFOM, so they could have done that and then try to pin someone who was inactive as possible scum.

OMGML- "Jester: Dude, if you're seriously calling what Nyk and I did to secure a lynch yesterday scummy and not feeling the weight of hypocrisy around your neck you need to take a step back. You did nothing to help make sure a lynch happened, you didn't even check into the thread between April 30th and the deadline. I understand that your style is to make long posts every few days but these were extraordinary circumstances and if you didn't want crazy shit to go down because of the deadline lynching rules in this game you should have come back and helped us come to a group consensus."

True, but did you ask him why he was inactive?

OMGML- "I don't consider what Nyktorion did scummy in the least. He made a judgement call and brought the lynch to something that at least two people agreed upon. Mizzy and Jester, you call it scummy that we lynched SA, but hindsight is 20/20 (Jester) and apparently for some of us foresight is too. While you're so happily pointing out that between her vote and FoS Mizzy was changing the lynch from SA to Bat and that Nyk took the noose off of his neck, you're failing to take into account that she was trying to make a one woman decision at the last minute where I had been trying to make everyone come back and help me lynch Something Awesome or at least tell me why somebody else made a better lynch. I certainly wasn't going to go along with Mizzy's WIFOM defense of SA coupled with her even more WIFOM vote for Bat. This is as much the fault of the people who weren't here at the deadline as it is the people who were. We all knew the deadline lynching rules. You're getting righteous about what happened now but you didn't do anything about it when it was happening."

I find it scummy what Nykt did, but I guess less so since he saved a townie to lynch a townie. Maybe he had a hunch Something Awesome was the vig, since a few people said they weren't so that narrowed the field, so he hammered SA. Another reason for saving me is to set up a possible link between him and myself for lylo today, thinking I would be lynched easier than himself since Mizzy and Jester already suspect me (if one of them is his partner then that's still 3 votes and game over).

I also see what Nykt did could be him thinking there's a stronger case against SA than myself, thus SA is more likely scum.

I would like to note my change in behavior of lurking Nykt pointed out was because of computer problems. I was only able to get for a bit during that time and I posted in a different game before it went back down. I was inactive in all three of my current games.

Since there are two scum it is between Nykt, OMGML, Jester, and Mizzy. I would say the scum pair would possible be OMGML and Jester or Nykt and Mizzy.

[Mizzy]

After reading the mafia tell list again, Mizzy seemed to fall under the last category. She complains about how bad we screwed up. The wiki says that is often a scum tell.

Except I do that all the time in games where I am town. The wiki doesn't know everything, Battousai. I'm a woman who is prone to being pissy when she's right in the end and got ignored, same way I acted when Rosso turned up town, too.

Just because SA was a vig doesn't mean he had multiple rockets to launch, anyway, so if I were you, I wouldn't be so sure that a townie got saved. SA was pro-town, remember? That's why he fired at Rosso; because he was SURE he was scum. SA's job wasn't to kill townies, it was to kill scum.

The argument that I could be scum is moronic because the guy that got lynched was town and he was going to be lynched for sure before I stuck my vote in. Why not just let it happen? You guys will call is WIFOM until you're blue in the face, but for a scum there, the better play would have been to

let the deadline happen

and allow a townie to die without getting my hands dirty. There was no need for last minute heroics to look more pro-town because I wasn't under suspicion at all, anyway.

[Nyktorion]

For Jester, we have the fact that he first withdrew his vote before the deadline, and now is angry that we lynched the wrong person (see OGML's hypocrisy argument in #756).

I forgot to add something to the hypocrisy argument in my post: Jester not doing anything about the end of D3, but then complaining that the others did it wrong was only the second occasion where I thought that Jester was being a hypocrit when attacking me. The first such occasion was in post #694. There, he accused me of focussing too much into the SK/setup issue, when he was talking about that very same thing at least as much as I did.

I find it scummy what Nykt did, but I guess less so since he saved a townie to lynch a townie. Maybe he had a hunch Something Awesome was the vig, since a few people said they weren't so that narrowed the field, so he hammered SA.

The problem with this theory is that the alternative lynch (you) had not claimed either, so the claims of the other people would not have really helped me in your scenario.

I would like to note my change in behavior of lurking Nykt pointed out was because of computer problems. I was only able to get for a bit during that time and I posted in a different game before it went back down. I was inactive in all three of my current games.

I just looked at your game list, and what you say seems to be correct, so

unFOS:Battousai

.

[Tarhalindur]

Eighty-Third Vote Count:

Not Voting (5) - OhGodMyLife (rep. Ectomancer), Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan), Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz)

It will take 3 votes to lynch before deadline

FoS Count:

OhGodMyLife (1) - Mizzy
Jester (2) - OhGodMyLife, Nyktorion
Nyktorion (1) - Mizzy
Mizzy (1) - OhGodMyLife

Current Deadline:

May 20, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 13, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)[/quote]

[OhGodMyLife]

Just finished the last paper I will ever write as an undergraduate. It took the place of what should have been last night's sleep cycle, so I have to fit that in my schedule today somewhere, then I'll be able to make a meaningful post in this game.

[Battousai]

Since we know there are two scum, would everyone be willing to give their top scum pair?

[Jester]

...a lot of reactionary BS in his 756...

I can't do much more than echo Mizzy's 757 in response. She hit every note that I would have wanted to, and in a much better way than I could. Probably more succintly, too. If you want to call what I did hypocrisy, feel free, but it just ain't true. I wasn't comfortable lynching someone on one vote. You apparently were. That's a difference between us.

The deadline fell on a weekend, and I don't play MS on weekends. Go as far backwards in my posting history as you want. You'll find only a tiny handful of posts from me on Saturday or Sunday, and the bulk of those are probably posts in games that I mod, not ones that I play. RL prevents me from playing on the weekend, pretty much no matter the circumstances. To this, I will add the honest position that I'm just not all that enthusiastic about this game (MafiaScum) any more. I'll do my best to ensure a town win in this final day or two, but I'm not going to disrupt other parts of my life to do that.

Now then, yes, I said that I would have preferred "crazy shit because of deadline rules" (as you put it) because all of the townies in this game are either not playing or are poor players (and yes, I include myself in that). We were over-loaded with some of the worst townie players I've ever seen in this game, and wading through their BS has been exhausting. I'm not sure if the mafia deserves to win this game, but the town certainly deserves to lose. And my preference for "crazy shit" been proven right: you lynched the town's only power-role, so "crazy shit" would have indeed been preferable to what happened. It definitely couldn't have given us a worse result than you and Nyktorion gave us. So don't get bitchy. You might even show a little tiny bit of regret for your role in the D3 result.

That said, your post has the feel of an honestly outraged townie, or you're a far better actor than I am (and since you've been on the site twice as long as I have, that's probable). You have the right to be pissed at me, I suppose. But you should also be pissed at yourself, unless of course lynching the town's only power role was the result you wanted.

More in a few minutes.

[Jester]

For Jester, we have the fact that he first withdrew his vote before the deadline, and now is angry that we lynched the wrong person (see OGML's hypocrisy argument in #756).

Interesting.
:arrow: Where in the two posts I made before you wrote this do I say I was angry? I am, but where did I say this?
:arrow: Are you not angry about the D3 result? Are you, say, happy about it?

Core question: is being angry about the D3 result a bad thing?

The first such occasion was in post #694. There, he accused me of focussing too much into the SK/setup issue, when he was talking about that very same thing at least as much as I did.

Lie.

I wrote exactly two posts about the setup on D3, and I've been trying to get people to

shut up about the set-up

and hunt scum since very very early on day 2. I said "there's no SK" all the way back to my very first post on D2, and you only deigned to believe me on the dawn of Day 4. On D3, you started pushing setup discussions in your 623. I asked people in my 641 to state how many scum they thought there were (one post), then explicitly said what I was sure the setup was in my 671 (two posts). When you tried to push another setup discussion in your 688, my total entire response in 694 was "Mountainous game." You then came back with YET ANOTHER setup discussion in your 702. After that, I just ignored you.

So this accusation is a flat-out, blatant lie. As a matter of fact, between April 7 and May 1, you wrote SEVEN posts about the set-up, and your entire argument against me in your 725 was about me "arguing about the most probable setup" (eight?)... and you're accusing

me

of hypocrisy? Inconsistent much?

By the way, I'll also remind people of something you said earlier in the game:

We always get a lynch when the deadline hits, see rule #10.

Good understanding of the rules, there. Came in handy on D3, I'll bet.

HOS: Nyktorion

.

More in a few minutes.

[Jester]

After reading the mafia tell list again, Mizzy seemed to fall under the last category. She complains about how bad we screwed up. The wiki says that is often a scum tell.

It's not always a scum tell. Sometimes, it's a frustrated town tell. (So I guess I agree with Mizzy, there.)

I agree with this, because I think it is unlikely that BOTH scum would vote at deadline for a lynch, because that would out them both. Then again they could think we would think that resulting in WIFOM, so they could have done that and then try to pin someone who was inactive as possible scum.

I thought about this and ultimately rejected it, at least for now. I've seen two scum tag-team like this before several times and this one felt different. Ecto swung wildly between townish appearing and scummish appearing, but OMGL comes off to me as townish more often than not.

True, but did you ask him why he was inactive?

I read OMGL's argument against SA on Thursday afternoon (a week ago right now, as a matter of fact). And I couldn't decide if it was a good argument or an opportunistic one. To say that TNE is an easy target is to be completely unfair to easy targets everywhere. The guy was on virtually everyone's suspect list... except mine. To me, he came off as noob and I said as much, though I don't recall the post I said this (feel free to check me). So when suddenly OMGL wanted to list him as a suspect, I was very conflicted about it. I almost posted as much, then decided to see what other people said about it.

Those were some pretty interesting computer problems, BTW. If I go completely meta on you, I find that you have posts the 28th, 29th, 30th, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th before you "return" on the 6th.

Just because SA was a vig doesn't mean he had multiple rockets to launch, anyway, so if I were you, I wouldn't be so sure that a townie got saved. SA was pro-town, remember? That's why he fired at Rosso; because he was SURE he was scum. SA's job wasn't to kill townies, it was to kill scum.

You know... I just thought of this. At the risk of being accused of speculating about the setup again (:P at Nyktorion), it seems likely SA's role was a "one shot" as a cop, doctor, vig, and role-blocker (one each). If I had those four choices, once each, I might use my cop power the first night. I think I'm gonna go check out TNE's D2 posts and see if he left a bread-crumb about what he found out.

And I'm done for today, I think (unless I find something interesting in TNE's early D2 posts).

[OhGodMyLife]

I believe the one-shot of all the basic power roles is what a standard jack of all trades role is. It actually makes sense and I like the ingenuity on Tar's part because its a solid choice to try and fix the balance issues that exist in straight up 2:10 mountainous games. I agree that the cop investigation is the most likely night one choice for TNE, when I have time I'll take a look back at his day two posts as well.

I have to rethink my stances on people in this game quite a bit here, because Jester is right that I was more pissed off than I was logical after day three ended like that. Of course I'm angry at myself for lynching SA, but I was feeling more than a little helpless as the deadline crept up and I was still the only person voting. My own judgment turned out to be wrong, but I have to put more faith in it than in a random rock-paper-scissors match. It was sort of like the game theory argument of whether a vig should kill every night, and I fall on the side of yes they should, because they know their own opinion is that of a pro-town player. Thats why I kept my vote where it was even when nobody else was doing anything. I also obviously got a little huffy with Mizzy at the start of today, and looking back I didn't really have any right to. At the end of day three I thought she was trying to save her scumbuddy by swooping in at the last minute, and that angry sentiment carried over even when the reveal made it clear that wasn't the case. She's absolutely right that her play at the end of the day marks her as town more than anybody else here because if she hadn't done anything, we would have reached an SA lynch just the same and she wouldn't have gotten any negative attention at all, especially with the number of other players who were also absent at the deadline.

Battousai's question of most plausible scum pairs is a good one because thats definitely something we want worked out in a lylo situation. Looking at it with a clearer head, I see two much less benign possible reasons behind Nyktorion's vote than I was willing to entertain earlier. The more obvious is that it directly saved Battousai from being the lynch, something that would implicate them as scum partners. The second stems from Bat's own comment about it today, that in saving him Nyktorion has made himself an obvious ally and buddied up all to well to a possible Townbat. There is of course still the third option of Nyktorion really just having thought, the same as me, that SA was much more probable scum than Battousai, and doing what he could to ensure a lynch he believed in.

Each of these three scenarios results in a different scum team, which is why I said I need to rethink my stances on people, as it quickly becomes complicated from here. Nykt-Bat is the most obvious as Nykt literally saved Bat at the last minute. Nykt-Jester is more insidious, and definitely a dangerous possibility because I can't see Bat being convinced of Nyktscum's guilt today or probably ever, making it more likely he would be the one to make that fatal townie on townie vote that the scum need to win it. Bat-Jester is the pairing that I need to look back through the thread and see what evidence there is to support, because if this is the case they got really lucky when Nykt agreed with me on the SA lynch at the last minute and saved Bat's hide.

The FoSing going on today seems to point to one of those first two pairs, with the FoS and subsequent unFoS of Bat from Nyktorion starting to look a lot like distancing, while the hardcore case presented by Jester on Nyktorion ending with an HoS can be interpreted as a serious bussing to set up a perfect endgame lynch of Battousai.

I need a thorough look through the whole thread for interactions between all three of you before I can make a more informed post, but suffice it to say that I consider Mizzy's evidence for her own towniness pretty much rock solid at this point. I just can't see a situation where scum would get themselves that involved in trying to stop a town lynch when there was absolutely no need for them to. So without further ado, I will

unFoS: Mizzy

and to be thorough,

FoS: Battousai, Nyktorion

[Nyktorion]

Interesting.
:arrow: Where in the two posts I made before you wrote this do I say I was angry? I am, but where did I say this?
:arrow: Are you not angry about the D3 result? Are you, say, happy about it?

I think I chose the wrong words here. I did not really want to talk about anger with the actual result of the Day (of course, I am angry/unhappy with that, too), but rather anger against the lynchers. And while you did not really write that you were showing anger against OGML and me, you made this pretty clear i an implicit way by immediately jumpig at us two at the beginning of D4.

Lie.

I wrote exactly two posts about the setup on D3, and I've been trying to get people to shut up about the set-up and hunt scum since very very early on day 2. I said "there's no SK" all the way back to my very first post on D2, and you only deigned to believe me on the dawn of Day 4. On D3, you started pushing setup discussions in your 623. I asked people in my 641 to state how many scum they thought there were (one post), then explicitly said what I was sure the setup was in my 671 (two posts). When you tried to push another setup discussion in your 688, my total entire response in 694 was "Mountainous game." You then came back with YET ANOTHER setup discussion in your 702. After that, I just ignored you.

So this accusation is a flat-out, blatant lie. As a matter of fact, between April 7 and May 1, you wrote SEVEN posts about the set-up, and your entire argument against me in your 725 was about me "arguing about the most probable setup" (eight?)... and you're accusing me of hypocrisy? Inconsistent much?

If you just wanted the town to focus on scumhunting instead of setup discussions, why did you not just use FOSes instead of votes during the day (the "playing it safe" point I tried to make at that tine, which was also the root of the escalation of the setup discussion), instead of escalating the discussion as well?

If you are counting my 623 and 631 where I metioned a vig (and the possibility of him claiming), you also have to count your 626 where you pushed for a vig-claim. You did not ask people in 641 how many scum there are, you just kept your vote saying that you don't think a quick-hammer would occur (which is where our disagreement started). Then we have your metioned 671 and 694 (posts #3 and #4 about the subject). You just ignoring me (and the argument) from then on is also a wrong statement by you: everything continued in your 704 (your post #5). So our "scores" here are not really far of, and except for 717 ad 722 (whose focus is actually also your attack and unvote against me), the setup was also treated in all of your posts.

Since we know there are two scum, would everyone be willing to give their top scum pair?

While I did not consider you as outstanding as you were before I looked at your posts (May 2 and May 3 is the small thing Bat talked about, and the gap then is really obious, so at least that pint is settled), I would still consider you to be above Mizzy and OGML (who look rather pro-town to me) in my list. So the most probable scumpair would still be Jester-Battousai in my eyes.

One last point: since there seems to be a lot of objection against my vote at the end of Day 3: I can just say to this that SA indeed seemed to be the scummier lynch-candidate to me at that time. Since you seem to think that this action was probably done by a NykScum at that point, I have to ask: what would a NykTown have done in contrast at this point? Vote Battousai against my better belief (at that time)? I don't really think so. Keep quiet? Would be equivalent to voting Bat, with the one difference of drawing less attention (which should not be the reason behing a townie's action in my book). The other change I could think of would be to cast my vote against SA earlier - but my timing was already explained by my "playing it safe" in a

possible

LyLo situation and hence changing my FOSes into votes late. So what contrasts your NykScum scenario from a NykTown in your eyes, then?

[Mizzy]

I have to ask: what would a NykTown have done in contrast at this point?

1) You could have voted for a third party.
2) You could have asked the mod for a deadline postponement in order to have SA replaced and get a roleclaim.
3) You could have voiced your opinions and thoughts and not done anything.

Your vote, coupled with your lack of affect at the mislynch, make me pretty sure you're a good scumbet.

I feel a lot better about OGML now, maybe because he knows how to appease angry goddesses.

UnFoS: OhGodMyLife.

FoS: Battousai.

I think Battousai + Nyktorion has to be my top scumpair choice.

[Tarhalindur]

Eighty-Fourth Vote Count:

Not Voting (5) - OhGodMyLife (rep. Ectomancer), Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan), Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz)

It will take 3 votes to lynch before deadline

HoS Count (LyLo courtesy, no game significance):

Nyktorion (1) - Jester

FoS Count:

Jester (2) - OhGodMyLife, Nyktorion
Battousai (2) - OhGodMyLife, Mizzy
Nyktorion (2) - Mizzy, OhGodMyLife

Current Deadline:

May 20, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 13, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

[Mizzy]

Mod:

I'll be going away for the weekend today and I'll be back sometime late on Sunday. Thanks!

[Nyktorion]

1) You could have voted for a third party.
3) You could have voiced your opinions and thoughts and not done anything.

I did lay out the list of scummiest people in my 725, and also, SA was the top candidate there (I am getting the feeling that nobody has read my 725 ). The only other candidate I would have supported a lynch against at that time was Jester, but the given the choice betwenn the two, SA would have bee the result there, too.

2) You could have asked the mod for a deadline postponement in order to have SA replaced and get a roleclaim.

I did view the rules as something rather fixed, so this did not really come to my mind at that time. However, you are right, this would have indeed been an option - the worst thing that could have happened would just Tar be disagreeing, but maybe, he would even have granted us something for SA's disappearing.

coupled with your lack of affect at the mislynch

Of course, I am unhappy about still not hitting scum. However, I don't think it should be a good/necessary thing to take out this affection in public.

The deadline fell on a weekend, and I don't play MS on weekends. Go as far backwards in my posting history as you want. You'll find only a tiny handful of posts from me on Saturday or Sunday, and the bulk of those are probably posts in games that I mod, not ones that I play. RL prevents me from playing on the weekend, pretty much no matter the circumstances.

This still leaves Thursday and Friday open, which would have been eough to post a response/opinion to OGML's attack against SA.

Now then, yes, I said that I would have preferred "crazy shit because of deadline rules" (as you put it) because all of the townies in this game are either not playing or are poor players (and yes, I include myself in that). We were over-loaded with some of the worst townie players I've ever seen in this game, and wading through their BS has been exhausting. I'm not sure if the mafia deserves to win this game, but the town certainly deserves to lose. And my preference for "crazy shit" been proven right: you lynched the town's only power-role, so "crazy shit" would have indeed been preferable to what happened. It definitely couldn't have given us a worse result than you and Nyktorion gave us. So don't get bitchy. You might even show a little tiny bit of regret for your role in the D3 result.

No matter whether your "poor players" argument is actually true or not, this part is probably as anti-town as it can get. If you would really like to criticize the town for their poor-townie way, I feel that the time after the game is decided would be a more appropriate (an less "anti-town" in a game-sense) time to do this.

Since Tar has added a HOS counter:

HOS: Jester

FOS: Jester, Battousai

[Battousai]

Since you guys have already said your scumpairs, I'll list the one I'm leaning on right now. That would be OMGML/Jester. Jester doesn't seem too critical of OMGML's actions yesterday compared to Nykt's. Add in Jester's actions yesterday of voting someone early in the game without confirmation of it being lylo. As Nykt said, the town did not know for sure it was not LyLo, but Jester seemed to know that it wasn't by voting.

Then we have OMGML. Yesterday OMGML voted for a townie that had acted scummy in the past and looked scummy to everyone but Jester (as said in post 767

To me, he came off as noob and I said as much, though I don't recall the post I said this (feel free to check me)

Haven't checked it out yet)- possible distancing from the lynch? OMGML's vote was obviously on an easy target. That plus Ecto's casting out suspicions on everyone early in the game put him into the scum pair.