My thoughts exactly.Muerrto wrote: I could really care less whether Winter is town or not right now since he's said he feels he wins by guessing the scum but doesn't care whether the town wins or loses.
I never said i didn't care if the town won... i said:Litral wrote:W!nt3r, do you retract your comment that you didn't care if the town won, then?
Not true except in very few theme games.W!nt3r wrote:i really don't care about winning... this means I don't care if I am alive at the end of the game or not. because to win as town you have to have outlived the mafia.
This is how i perceive winning in a game of mafia as a townie. because If you're dead you can't rejoice in the fact that You were the one who killed off all the mafia... unless you died in Dynomite stick mafia but also killed the last mafia member.W!nt3r wrote:I never said i didn't care if the town won... i said:Litral wrote:W!nt3r, do you retract your comment that you didn't care if the town won, then?
i really don't care about winning... this means I don't care if I am alive at the end of the game or not.because to win as town you have to have outlived the mafia.
i don't understand this comment.Litral wrote:W!nt3r, you're mixing up personal feelings with a game. We are grateful that you allowed the game to proceed, but to cancel out snafoo's scumniness with appreciation would not be true to the spirit of the game. This is understandable, I believe.
This is useless banter. As it does not matter. I've told you that what you think is different than what i think. This point would only matter to the game at hand if all players were in agreement with what constitutes winning.Litral wrote:The Townie PM, as included in the first page, very explicitly states that you win if all the mafia are gone, whether or not you survive until the end. Sure, you don't have to follow that, it's not as if we're playing the game for you. But you have to admit it's a bit strange when you go into a game and call yourself a loser if you get killed Night 0, but a winner if you don't help the town at all and guessed out the scum in your own head.
You're justifying voting yourself and acting entirely anti-town for the last two pages because of a personal feeling: you don't like us, as stated here:W!nt3r wrote:i don't understand this comment.Litral wrote:W!nt3r, you're mixing up personal feelings with a game. We are grateful that you allowed the game to proceed, but to cancel out snafoo's scumniness with appreciation would not be true to the spirit of the game. This is understandable, I believe.
Essentially I'm saying you can't justify screwing the town because you don't like us.W!nt3r wrote:I disliked the attitude i received when I was kind enough to replace your prime suspect. This caused me to dislike the group. If the group suffers it will justify my dislike. You can still win with your heads cut off.
W!nt3r, you yourself said this:W!nt3r wrote:You say: "... but a winner if you don't help the town at all and guessed out the scum in your own head."
This is not true. I've already told you who i think is scum with very good reasoning. You refuse to it into account, because you feel my "emotional" plays are more important/more scummy than what I actually think about the other players in the game.
This comment implies that you think you win if you guessed who the scum is, which is my statement exactly.W1nt3r wrote:I really don't care about winning at this point, because if I was part of this town, I would like to see you all run amok like chickens with no heads. And in the end game, when I find out who the other scum was, THAT will be when I decide weather i've won or not.
W!nt3r wrote:A player wins if, at the end of the game, their suspicions are justifyed.
Don't those two contradict?W!nt3r wrote:to win as town you have to have outlived the mafia.
This works wonderfully if you are in fact town. If you're lying and are scum the whole thing falls on its head.W!nt3r wrote:Why i think Muerrto, despite being unhelpful, is not scum: his play through the game. Its the basic IC: suspect everyone, trust no one scheme.
again I'm only going on one full read, and I've been asked questions that I felt needed answering.
"Claiming townie only helps the scum find the power roles (if any). I don't think we've asked snafoo to claim yet. Muerrto is right in that you seem too anxious here. "
This is such a bad and old argument. I'm on the chopping block, I was told i needed a good defense against the replacement vote. Lets see: 7 players and knowing we have only 1 scum left. The odds of a power role being found were big to begin with. 33.3% chance.
IF you know you're not scum, and I was on your suspect list and I'm town. Your list becomes 1:5 You have a 4.4 percent higher chance of finding scum than if you made the presumption that I am scum.
Now with that: 20 % hit scum and 33.3 to hit power
For each confirmed townie you have going into the third and fourth day, each towns person has an increasingly higher chance to recognize who is scum, which they compare to their notes of possible scum.
Should we not hit scum today: and Person X is lynched. You as a towns person have 2/5 confirmed towns. You have a 1/3 chance of hitting scum tomorrow if I am alive. On day four When player Y dies You have, a 100% knowledge of the remaining scum. If its not you, and its not me, its him.
Yes, tonight for 1 night, the last remaining mafia member has a slightly higher chance at hitting a power role. But for 3 days the town's BASE CHANCES, note that this does not at all take into account player skill, BASE CHANCES go up astoundingly.
I just claimed town. You can lynch me, and find that out regardless of how I play or snafoo played. Or you can choose to start weeding out chance as an aspect of this game.
This is why I claimed in my first post.
Let me correct you metaphor.W!nt3r wrote:George W. Bush is a bad leader. Will the next President voted be a bad leader?Litral wrote:Self votes do count.
W!nt3r, saying that in a variety of languages without arguments is as convincing of your towniness as saying the sky is bright today. That wasn't Muerrto's point (or at least it isn't my point). The point is, snafoo made himself look scummy, and it carries forward to you.
I'm telling him that he's using an illogical fallacy as his basis for an attack against me. Its called Genetic Fallacy and is described as:
You do realise the context of the posts you've quoted, yes? I had just replaced into the game. It was not preemtive defending it was offering my opinion on what had happened in the game up until the point where I joined. Also walnut was first on that scum list of mine which you quoted. How was anything ambiguous?W!nt3r wrote:... stuff about other players...
Q21 has been very hard for me to read. through both reads i caught a lot of ambiguous comments that could have been noobish or scum-underbelly. THings such as:
This comment, coupled with a vote for walnut, looks like track covering. "Yes i think this person is scum and we should lynch him, but if he's not these are my other choices." Preemptive defending against the obvious mislynch that would be Walnut. also: Q in as his first comment on the game saysI've mentioned 4 people: Walnut, Mike, snafoo and (on outside chance) Litral. If there's no scum among those 4 I'd be astounded.
But his first vote is for Walnut, a player who, up until that point, and who did not appear on Q's first list of suspects and was very open and genuine about his Noob status almost to the point of ignorance.FoS: Mike as lurkerscum.
... more about other people...
