Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

LaptopGun · Post Post #950 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 8:32 am

dcorbe welcome to this game and sorry you got stuck here

Armix is looking awfuly overzealous to get a claim and lynch out of this. This could be nothing, yet I am concerned one anti-town role has found the other. As we discussed before, lynching the scum role has the dual effect of looking good in the town's eyes and removing a road block to their victory condition. Nonetheless, dcorbe is sounding like someone who has a role besides non-vanilia townie. Probability is telling me anti-town, but that's given the numbers. There's a small number of pro town roles he could have at this point, assuming we have a sane mod running the show

. But seriously, the numbers of availble roles are pointing towards mafia or serial killer.

I intially wondered why no one else has chimed in here. I am not comfortable with one player interrogating another without another opinion on things. Baring the possibility armix is also scum, which I dont know and I'm not saying, I think we got a scum here. I just dont want to pass judgement immediately on anyone based on half a page of interrogation and looking back at Oman's tortured history.

Then I saw that the real debate between the two has only been going on for an hour or two. I thought this had been going on since my last check in Thursday afternoon (the vote count was the last thing up). Not a brief spat. Maybe there is nothing to my worries.

LaptopGun · Post Post #951 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 8:41 am

ABWOP dcorbe posted while I was writing mine. Let He finally claimed town, which he probably should have did if he was town when it was obvious armix was not going to rest. He explicitly said he was not a mafia goon. He of course said nothing about the serial killer. Armix's "breadcrumming" of accusations seemed to suggest he thought dcorbe was one of the mafia. If dcorbe was responding directly to armix, I can sort of buy the obmission of not mentioning the other antitown role out there. I kinda think at this point though that claims have to say both because it's not hard to confuse the two.

LaptopGun · Post Post #952 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 8:42 am

ABWOP If it's not obvious, I am highly skeptical of dcorbe's claim.

dcorbe · Post Post #953 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 8:46 am

Sorry for my n00bism but what does ABWOP mean?

Shteven · Post Post #954 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 9:08 am

Welcome dcorbe, you've got a bit of a hot seat that you've replaced into sadly.

Aside from that though, amrlx does seem to be pushing too hard. Perhaps it's excitement from being sure he's caught scum, but really, ending the day so quickly isn't pro-town. I'm starting to think I'll leave my vote where it is instead of moving it. Although realistically it won't stop dcorbe from being lynched.

And that's probably good, because he's still scummy, I just think armlx likely is as well.

armlx · Post Post #955 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 10:59 am

I was merely trying to push him into claiming on the spot, rather then give him time to be able to think about a fake claim. If he is pro-town, it should have been easy and its the appropriate scenario to claim in. If he's not, he's going to stall for time to figure out what the best option for himself is.

That said, vanilla doesn't change anything I thought about him before.

LaptopGun · Post Post #956 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 12:13 pm

ABWOP means add by way of the post. Basically you want to add something to the post you litearrly just made. It's good when you notice you forgot to say something or had a lightbulb go off in your head about what you just said

Shteven · Post Post #957 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 12:48 pm

armlx wrote:I was merely trying to push him into claiming on the spot, rather then give him time to be able to think about a fake claim. If he is pro-town, it should have been easy and its the appropriate scenario to claim in. If he's not, he's going to stall for time to figure out what the best option for himself is.

That said, vanilla doesn't change anything I thought about him before.

Why don't you claim also? Simply put, there are times when you don't want to claim as pro town. Games begin with random voting, not mass role claims. Granted many of our power roles are already dead or claimed, but you still run the risk of endangering the town by pushing for an early claim. And since you don't know what his role is, only he is qualified to weigh these risks for himself.

Pushing him is risky, and stands to benefit the scum as much if not more than the town.

armlx · Post Post #958 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 1:44 pm

L-2 with 2 more people expressing concern + 2 massive cases on you is not one of the times you don't want to claim.

Shteven · Post Post #959 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 4:39 pm

When those people are waiting for you to read the thread that you just replaced into, you may certainly read the thread first. It's an extenuating circumstance.

armlx · Post Post #960 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 4:42 pm

If someone is under moderate pressure (not at claim range), I agree. But when they are in claim range, the claim should be forced ASAP.

Shteven · Post Post #961 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 4:42 pm

EBWOP: Your last post is a bit of a strawman, but I might not have been too clear in my previous post also.

I never meant he should never claim - just that he is perfectly justified in reading the thread before claiming, and that you shouldn't be pushing him to rush a claim before he knows what's going on. What if he's the townie who puts together a convincing case on scum? We need all the eyes we can get looking for clues.

armlx · Post Post #962 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm

My point is he claims first, then he rereads the thread and comments, then we lynch him (or not if his claim checks out). This order makes attempts at a false claim much less guided.

vollkan · Post Post #963 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 4:53 pm

dcorbe wrote: If I claim an anti-town role, I get lynched anyways.

Why did you mention this possibility?

dcorbe wrote: I'm not trying to deflect, I'm just trying to point out your overly aggressive stance.

If dropping hints isn't enough, I'll just come right out and say it. I'm NOT mafia. I'm a townie. Lynching me isn't going to end the game.

Hmm...I have my doubts as to whether you are not mafia, but you don't affirm whether or not you are SK. Dcorbe, if you are SK it is of crucial importance for your own sake that you claim right now. I don't want to reveal why at this point in time, because it will play right into the mafia's hands, but the way this game has panned out, in this particular setup, means that if you are SK, you can only win at this point in time by claiming.

I know this may sound highly counterintuitive but, if you think hard enough, it should be obvious why you need to claim.

armlx · Post Post #964 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 4:57 pm

vollkan actually has a legitimate point here. The only way you as SK can win is if you claim and let the town direct your kills and we miss every single time and then screw up even more.

vollkan · Post Post #965 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:00 pm

EBWOP:

@Dcorbe: Just to clear something up, in case it is not obvious to you, the reason why I am giving you as SK advice is that the numbers indicate that the mafia is the most tremendous threat to both you and us (the town). Consequently, it is in our mutual interest to defeat the mafia. Again, I can't be specific with numbers because it will play into the mafia's hands, but you ought to be smart enough to see why claiming can only benefit you.

armlx · Post Post #966 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:01 pm

I'm confused as to why you can't be specific about numbers here. The game is pretty much all open and calculateable here kill wise.

vollkan · Post Post #967 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:14 pm

Yes, it is. My assumption is that the SK will have the brains to work out what I mean, without requiring me to spell it out and alert the mafia. The longer the mafia is in the dark, the better. Am I right?

armlx · Post Post #968 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:16 pm

I see. Gotcha.

dcorbe · Post Post #969 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:18 pm

vollkan wrote:
dcorbe wrote: If I claim an anti-town role, I get lynched anyways.
Why did you mention this possibility?

dcorbe wrote: I'm not trying to deflect, I'm just trying to point out your overly aggressive stance.

If dropping hints isn't enough, I'll just come right out and say it. I'm NOT mafia. I'm a townie. Lynching me isn't going to end the game.
Hmm...I have my doubts as to whether you are not mafia, but you don't affirm whether or not you are SK. Dcorbe, if you are SK it is of crucial importance for your own sake that you claim right now. I don't want to reveal why at this point in time, because it will play right into the mafia's hands, but the way this game has panned out, in this particular setup, means that if you are SK, you can only win at this point in time by claiming.

I know this may sound highly counterintuitive but, if you think hard enough, it should be obvious why you need to claim.

I'm certainly not the SK either. The SK is still alive and out there somewhere.

dahill1 · Post Post #970 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:26 pm

even if dcorbe (claims) not to be the SK, i agree that the SK should come out now. as it would be to the SK's best advantage to claim now

armlx · Post Post #971 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:38 pm

dcorbe has no incentive not to claim SK in his scenario. Vanilla claim isn't going to get him anywhere.

dcorbe · Post Post #972 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 5:54 pm

FOS: armix

Does anyone find it odd that all armix and the people he replaced ever did was snipe? Certainly seems like something an SK would do.. Offer up heads with no real solid explanations. No OMGUS intended.

armlx · Post Post #973 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 6:00 pm

All I have done is snipe, eh? No posting of full cases, long posts analyzing the game up to this point. No, none of that.

dcorbe · Post Post #974 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 6:08 pm

armlx wrote:All I have done is snipe, eh? No posting of full cases, long posts analyzing the game up to this point. No, none of that.

You joined the game around page 35. You replaced loudmouthlee. You claimed to be "rereading" that very night, though that's the first post from you in the entire thread.

Since page 35 I don't see ANY of the "long analyitcal" posts you're referring to.