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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 3:43 pm

Post by ting =) »

@bab.
Yes, Imat is Shamrock. This was before the names were reversed, so Shamrock didn't know he was really Imat. Accordingly, I've decided to ignore all posts from you and Shamrock between replacing and when the mod sorted out the confusion.

Also, from 474.
bab wrote:You have GOT to be kidding me. I have been looking at this game and so far, and I have considered Mert/petunho/GSGold to be scummy!
If that came after attacking Mert, I'd be suspicious, but it came unprompted, which made me think it's rather a small town tell, albeit a wifomy one.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Wed May 14, 2008 7:09 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

I will not have access to a computer until late Friday
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Thu May 15, 2008 3:18 am

Post by massive »

BAB
: As stated in my post, his post [352] is a Common Tell of a killing party.
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Thu May 15, 2008 9:20 am

Post by Matt_S »

Qman has posted elsewhere earlier today.
Mod:
Has Qman picked up his prod?

My paranoia is telling me that he's responding to his prods by pm.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 7:29 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

I'm back! Planning on posting tomorrow.

The mod has been missing for nine days. Is this normal?

Also I have a couple of prods

BIG prod: destructor
(15 days)
HUGE prod: Qman
(28 days)
semi-prod Shamrock
(four days)
semi-prod Khelvaster
(four days)

Keep these lurkers in mind. It
seems
to me very conscious.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Fri May 16, 2008 7:37 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

Omg you guys.

Qman, who has been gone from this thread for 28 days... posted yesterday in another game.
Destructor who was gone for 15 days, posted today in another thread today.

Khelv posted today, but he's only been gone for four days. Shamrock last posted 2 days ago.

We have some really bad lurkers, and I'm really tempted to vote for one of them to fish them back.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sat May 17, 2008 10:16 am

Post by Matt_S »

BridgesAndBaloons wrote:Omg you guys.

Qman, who has been gone from this thread for 28 days... posted yesterday in another game.
Destructor who was gone for 15 days, posted today in another thread today.

Khelv posted today, but he's only been gone for four days. Shamrock last posted 2 days ago.

We have some really bad lurkers, and I'm really tempted to vote for one of them to fish them back.
I've tried this on Qman, but it's not working. I'm really tempted to try and get him lynched.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sat May 17, 2008 3:22 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

I'm posting this so Shamrock might have stuff to respond to. I'm not confident in a lynch based on a predecessor's actions at all. Khelv wanted me to justify my vote, so here is why I think Imat was one of the scummier players in this game.

To properly view this case (it's actually EXTREMELY easy to follow along) just view the thread as all of Imat's posts. If you don't know how to do this (I only figured it recently, but I could've just been stupid) let me know.

The post numbers 0-30 refer to Imat's post. For instance, post 0 is his first post, post 8 is his ninth post, and so on.

Post 0
As it stands I haven't really seen scummy behavior, at least, nothing that guarantees scum, from any of the players. [...] I need further evidence, particularly from those who aren't posting, before deciding.
Right off the bat Imat doesn't scum-hunt. He makes sure to ask others to cast their suspicions, waiting to follow a good case. The part I put [...] is him talking about theory. He doesn't like bandwagons, aparrently.
Post 1-2
he accuses Matt_S, then he realizes he made a mistake, and un-accuses him. Notice how he doesn't mention the whole vanilla claim thing about Matt_S in his accusations. Also notice how he is careful not to vote here.
Post 3-4
This has been quoted. Imat decides Destructor might be a little bit scummy, and then he reads Desctructor and decides he is not scummy, saying
"CoolBot, you'd better not be Scum, cuz I just poured through your posts looking for any sign of scumminess and didn't find any. If you are scum, that'll look really bad for me. "
Post 4-11
Imat decides now that Matt_S is scummy (still not taking into account the whole vanilla thing) and votes him... and then unvotes him claiming that Matt_S has too many votes for too little discussion. It really really reads like Imat is trying too hard to be town. I personally don't think L-2 is that dangerous of a place to be, but maybe this is a more personal thing.

(Imat also defends coolbot several times in posts 4-10, but I'm going to put all of the defending of coolbot in a separate section of this post.)
post 12
a pitiful attempt to look pro-town. He basically mirrors what has been said before. He does put some suspicion on coolbot; however, you have to take in mind that this is in a post where he accuses much other people, and he also defends CB a whole lot more previously.
post 13-17
are a series of very weak posts. They are all 3 lines or under and really don't do much for the town.
post 18-19
I will give Imat this. It's a case against Talitha. That seems like a pro-town thing to do.
I'm going to look over the case now to make sure.
OMG I re-read it (I admittedly didn't pay much attention on my first read-through, which is why I said "I don’t find anything to comment about it"). This is an incredibly disappointing case. The majority of the points don't follow through. (for instance, Imat makes a claim, then doesn't take into account a later post by Talitha that explains what she was doing and why Imat's claim doesn't make sesne). I think it would be a HUGE waste of my time to write up a post about how bad this case is, but I'll just reccomend that if you (the reader) think I'm scum and don't believe, re-read the case and go to all the posts that Imat cites. It's a horrid case.
We also know now that Talitha was being carefully because she was the detective.
Damn, I wish we still had a detective.
post 20-23
only him reacting to the deaths. Seems to think there isn't a vig. Being optimistic maybe? Nah that's too much of a stetch for me. I think the fact that he discounts there being a vig isn't too much of a tell, though I remember earlier thinking different.
post 24-25
Him saying he's been inactive.
post 26-29
is Imat making a case against Matt_S. In these he pretty much misinterprets the initial events of the game. Game post 454, and his post 28 is honestly something I'm not going to look at entirely. I glanced over it but I didn't follow the post numbers. I just don't have time. Instead, I just checked Matt_S's responses on game post 460, which does a pretty good job of shooting the attack down, I think. Again, I haven't completely scrutinized this, so if someone believes that this is an awesome case, let me know.
post 30
This is the type of thing you usually one see with time travel. So Shamrock attacked Imat, who is Shamrock? Wow... Anyway, I don't have time to look over to see which one wins this debate right now, but maybe later. Anyway, that's his last post.

Evidence of Imat defending coolbot:
I've convinced myself that Coolbot isn't Scum
(post 6)

I won't argue the CB vote anymore, if he wants to lurk he'll just look the worse for it, sticking my own neck out for some random player doesn't strike me as a good move anymore. However, what I defended him on in the past still stands, so I personally won't vote for him unless I see something really scummy.
(post 8)

Then he mentions (SEVERAL TIMES: 9,11, 12, ect) that CB should give examples of pro-town people outside the fellowship. This TOTALLY asking CB to do this. He wants CB to do this so that people will believe his claim more.

After post 12, as far as I saw, he complete ignores CB. Yeah. What!? Yeah.
I really don't like Imat's comments towards CB at all. I may need to re-read CB to uncover them better.

Also notice that he claims CB is pro-town because of the claiming issue, but doesn't do the same for Matt_S!?

If Imat hadn't been replaced, I would be pushing extremely hard for his lynch right now. The closer I look, the scummier he is.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Sun May 18, 2008 4:17 am

Post by ting =) »

bab wrote: I'm not confident in a lynch based on a predecessor's actions at all.
Shamrock
is
Imat. Anything that made Imat lynchworthy applies to Shamrock, they have the same role.

I haven't had time to reread yet, sorry. I'll post my thoughts once I have time.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Sun May 18, 2008 1:09 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

ting =) wrote: Shamrock
is
Imat. Anything that made Imat lynchworthy applies to Shamrock, they have the same role.

I haven't had time to reread yet, sorry. I'll post my thoughts once I have time.
You're right. I'm used to newbie games where you can't really be sure because the predecessor could have just been really dumb.

Let's get this game rolling...
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Sun May 18, 2008 1:35 pm

Post by destructor »

Hello, I haven't really been following what's been happening lately but have skimmed the recent post just now. Honestly, I have been avoiding this game because it confuses me. I don't know what to make of both of the recent replacements finding each other suspicious. I notice massive is still voting for Qman and Bab has posted a wordy case on Imat. I guess I'll try to make some time to read stuff in detail.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Sun May 18, 2008 4:43 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

destructor wrote: I don't know what to make of both of the recent replacements finding each other suspicious.
Actually Shamrock thought Imat, who
is
Shamrock's predecessor as scummy. Shamrock hasn't attacked me yet.

Shamrock technically attacked himself. Hope this clears things up.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Mon May 19, 2008 8:29 am

Post by massive »

I am still voting for Qman because I believe he's a killer.
"1AM .. not a good time to think I started mixing massive and mathcam" - Totem, DP8
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Mon May 19, 2008 5:20 pm

Post by ting =) »

@massive.
What kind of killer do you think he is? We already have an sk dead. Do you think we have two anti-town nk roles?
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 3:10 am

Post by massive »

No, I think we have a vig and the Mafia. When I pegged him as a killer, I gave him ample opportunity to say, "Yeah, I'm the vig" and own up to which kill was his. He didn't -- instead he got argumentative and defensive. So I think he's Mafia.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 3:12 am

Post by ting =) »

If you think he's mafia, then why did you say:
massive wrote:I am still voting for Qman because I believe he's a
killer.
There's a pretty clear distinction between the two.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 5:49 am

Post by destructor »

massive, you were role-fishing then? Why would you want the vig to claim? And why is it a point against him if, as a vig, he didn't?

(No, I haven't read the last few pages... :oops:)
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 9:27 am

Post by Matt_S »

destructor wrote:massive, you were role-fishing then? Why would you want the vig to claim? And why is it a point against him if, as a vig, he didn't?
I have to agree with this. If you posted a strong case against him, then I can see him claiming. But expecting a vig to claim at the slightest accusation is just stupid. However, I'm still paranoid and think that Qman is intentionally ignoring this game, so I still suggest lynching him, but massive could potentially be a decent alternative.
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 3:27 pm

Post by ting =) »

Yay, people are back! =)

I am fine with lynching either of Massive and Shamrock.

Those are the only two people who defended coolbot, despite the fact that coolbot never had that much pressure on him anyway. I think we should go for Shamrock first though, then massive. Massive, you can kind of explain as coolbot hiding behind him. Shamrock, as the coolbot posts indicate, was just flat out defending coolbot. I can understand defending someone you think is town if they're at L-2, but at L-6?

I also think massive is scum, and for other reasons besides that. I think it's counterproductive to go for two people though, so I'll
vote:shamrock
and leave massive for tomorrow.
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 3:34 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

Ting's last post=stole words from my mouth. Except for I definitely want our Mod back to prod people before we get too close to a lynch.
destructor wrote:massive, you were role-fishing then? Why would you want the vig to claim? And why is it a point against him if, as a vig, he didn't?

(No, I haven't read the last few pages... :oops:)
I give you my permission to skip my really huge summary of the game. Just please read those posts sometime during the game. A quick summary (
of my summaries
) is that I had a really hard time finding Matt_S scum because of the way Coolbot acted towards him, and because of him claiming "un-named." I also voted for Shamrock (who replaced Imat) based on semi-gut feeling/a general feel for the game. I recently went back and found out why I had those feelings and posted them as a semi-case against Shamrock.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 3:36 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

EEBWOP: Since I believe Matt_S to be town, I would really like his opinion on who he thinks is scummy. Are you fine with a Shamrock Lynch? Are you fine with a Massive lynch?
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 6:28 am

Post by massive »

I wanted to give him a chance to explain his actions. I don't believe that we should count a vig who is willing to shoot on day one as necessarily acting in the interest of the town.

Plus, after his ridiculous outrage on day one and his statement on day two, I was fairly sure that he was Mafia and would defend himself in a silly enough manner that we'd know for sure.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 11:14 am

Post by Matt_S »

BridgesAndBaloons wrote:EEBWOP: Since I believe Matt_S to be town, I would really like his opinion on who he thinks is scummy. Are you fine with a Shamrock Lynch? Are you fine with a Massive lynch?
I'm fine with a Shamrock lynch I suppose. A massive lynch doesn't seem like the best play for today, not when Qman's AWOL. If we hit Shamrock-scum today, then I'd be fine with a massive lynch tomorrow, but otherwise I'd prefer Qman tomorrow.
Unvote
. I'll think about this a bit more first.
massive wrote:I don't believe that we should count a vig who is willing to shoot on day one as necessarily acting in the interest of the town.
What? This would apply to any vig who shoots night 1. And how does the fact that you disagree with vigging on night 1 influence whether you put pressure on a person the next day? There's nothing wrong with shooting at someone that you think is scummy. There's a lot wrong with wanting to get a claim from a vig.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 2:26 pm

Post by ting =) »

I don't buy massive's explanation because:
massive wrote:I am still voting for Qman because I believe he's a killer.
When I point out that we can't possibly have another anti-town killer, he changes to:
massive wrote:When I pegged him as a killer, I gave him ample opportunity to say, "Yeah, I'm the vig" and own up to which kill was his. He didn't -- instead he got argumentative and defensive. So I think he's Mafia.
Which begs the question of why did he say he thought qman was mafia but instead said killer 2 posts before that.

After getting called for fishing, he says:
massive wrote:I wanted to give him a chance to explain his actions. I don't believe that we should count a vig who is willing to shoot on day one as necessarily acting in the interest of the town.

Plus, after his ridiculous outrage on day one and his statement on day two, I was fairly sure that he was Mafia and would defend himself in a silly enough manner that we'd know for sure.
Which is ambiguous in that it plays on both qman killer-mafia possibilities, attacking both, but not really picking one. If he believed the first bit - then that implies he believes qman is really vig, and lynching him would be stupid.

If he believes the second bit... then why call him killer in the first place in 512? He just keeps changing his case as he goes along.

Oh, also, coolbot attacked qman. I'm not discarding the possibility that it's bussing, but I see no reason to suspect qman right now.
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 3:07 pm

Post by BridgesAndBaloons »

Can we not talk about who we are lynching tomorrow, please? Anything can change. Setting up the next day's lynches is horribly anti-town.
Another reason to not to do this is it helps the mafia. The Mafia aren't going to kill any innocents that we intend on lynching.

Also, the more I think about it, the more I dislike lynching Massive today, or even tomorrow. (Note: this is
not a defense of Massive
, it just explains why I
personally
don't feel comfortable lynching him). As I read the game, Massive had many of the same ideas that I did. It would seem that if he was mafia he would have come from a different perspective on this game? He also would be restricted to not wanting to put cases against his partners.
I know this feeling is kind of sudden, it happended because I decided to re-read my game summary again. The reason I reread it is to look for coolbot attacking qman.

That reminds me...
Ting:
could you please remind me of the post numbers where coolbot attacked qman? I seemed to have missed it in my game summary.
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