Newbie 612: Cancelled due to mod error

[TartarianCerberus]

I'm not trying to bandwagon. I read some of J-Man's recent posts and they are much more scummy than yours. (If I didn't do it already,

FoS: W!nt3r

. I'm not trying to leap on anything, but if I see someone acting scummy and think that they should be lynched, I will vote for them, regardless of the number of votes that they currently have.

[Dean Harper]

This is ridiculous...

Unvote: W!nt3r, Vote: J-Man

(or td if Noriniel's replacing J-Man, I think he meant James), just for acting all-around scummy. Either he's mafia, or he's just horrible at making sense.

follow the crowd much? Why dont you make some actual analyses of people instead of saying, "Oh yeah, hes scummy." Put some effort into it, man.

[W!nt3r]

I'm not trying to bandwagon.

But you are.

[J-man]

so i am currently at -2 lynch so when you do come back and read the posts Brandi if you do intend to vote for me post as such, I would greatly appreciate a condensed listing of my transgressions.

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me, but I'll tell you this I am no more careful townie or scum, I generally like to post without knowing my alignment.

First of all this is likely my most honest statement and I am sorry if you can't understand how i post without knowing my alignment, maybe i am a forgetful person, or maybe i don't take this game a seriously as you do. the first part of the sentence pretty well falls under the same defense, if you lynch me it will be a mistake but i won't be alive to regret it, and so my honest statement still stands, If you don't like the way i play kill me. Scummy or not it is the truth.

I would also like to throw in on TartarianCerberus, (herefore referred to as TC) in as much as you find me scummy TC is at least as scummy I do not abide lurkers with out great reason, and I have found that my instinct in meat mafia (meat=rl) is often spot on, and just to remind you all

re-Vote:TartarianCerberus

[J-man]

sorry about the double post but the whole misogynistic thing has been blew out of proportion it was intended as a jest no malice intended, and I now see it was perhaps made in poor taste and would withdraw it if possible.

[Brandi]

Well I didn't really think you were being totally misogynistic. Tartar put you at L-2 while I was in the middle of making my post and I didn't notice till afterwards. I'm not sure if it would be a good move to put you at L-1 at this point in time. Thats something I'd have to really think about first.

[Brandi]

Also there is nothing wrong with double posts.

[Brandi]

My mental lexicon transcends, tenfold, the passable American student's competence for verbal intellectual hold.

Sounds like poetry

I'm not trying to bandwagon. I read some of J-Man's recent posts and they are much more scummy than yours. (If I didn't do it already,

FoS: W!nt3r.

I'm not trying to leap on anything, but if I see someone acting scummy and think that they should be lynched, I will vote for them, regardless of the number of votes that they currently have.

Tartar, the point everyone is trying to make is that you are essentially just agreeing with what the majority says without stating any actual reasonings. Perhaps you seriously think that J-man is scummy as do a few others, but it would be better to show a bit of analysis other than just say "you're scummy."

I'm not too certain, but one reason why Tartar may not be divulging too much into discussion could be because he is new. I am new myself I suppose. (This is my first game) But I think all newbies play their first game differently. I'm not saying its anything good that hes not discussing as much, but I think that it

might

just be a newb-tell and not a scum-tell.

Something I think that is a little worse than only posting in favor of the majority's opinion is blatantly not posting at all.

Babygirl86

I hope to see some input from you soon. I know that school can be rough but just make sure that you don't forget about us! =]

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me, but I'll tell you this I am no more careful townie or scum, I generally like to post without knowing my alignment.

First of all this is likely my most honest statement and I am sorry if you can't understand how i post without knowing my alignment, maybe i am a forgetful person, or maybe i don't take this game a seriously as you do. the first part of the sentence pretty well falls under the same defense, if you lynch me it will be a mistake but i won't be alive to regret it, and so my honest statement still stands, If you don't like the way i play kill me. Scummy or not it is the truth.

Hooold on a second there J. Are you trying to say that you have purposely made it so that you do not know if you are in fact town or scum? If so then you are most definitely playing this game incorrectly. Thats not just being a bad townie, thats being a bad mafia player. However I do not see how this could be possible BECAUSE of the fact that you would have had to PICK UP YOUR ROLE PM for the mod to know that you have confirmed that you are playing in this game.

You say that you do not know your alignment yet you try to bring an appeal to emotion by saying: "if you lynch me it will be a mistake" How can you know this for sure if you just stated that you do not know yourself whether or not you are in fact town or scum? It seems that your 'honest statements' are not so honest. Also, telling the other players to kill you is BAD playing. If you were PRO TOWN then you would not want the town to mis-lynch. You would at least make an effort to PROPERLY defend yourself.

In any case, J-man, If you in fact do not know your alignment, (which I do not see how it is possible that you don't) it would be a good idea to go to your PMs and actually read what role you are supposed to be playing. Not knowing your alignment hinders game play for yourself as well as everyone else. =/

[TartarianCerberus]

I could have sworn a posted something about W!nt3r and one comment about J on page four, but I don't see it there now...ah well, I was having some trouble with the servers earlier.

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me, but I'll tell you this I am no more careful townie or scum, I generally like to post without knowing my alignment.

This post alone is enough too lynch him. Either he is

1. An idiot.
   
2. Someone who can't speak English very well.
   
3. Scum.
   
4. All of the above.

I'm leading towards C or D right now. (No offense intended here J, I'm partially joking )

I think that what W!nt3r did was very well done and a very good move, except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive. He has set himself up in a very good place in the first pages making himself important through his many early posts. He has set himself up to be a powerful player, a good move for any player that feels confident either in his scum hunting or townie impersonation.

I say Good Job W!nt3r, although you have put me in a tough spot, now i have to figure out whether you are scum or not. Though who knows til your dead eh?

I agree with what J is saying here, but putting it into words just seems kinda...scummy. It seems like he's defending W!n a little harder than necessary.

I'm not too certain, but one reason why Tartar may not be divulging too much into discussion could be because he is new. I am new myself I suppose. (This is my first game) But I think all newbies play their first game differently. I'm not saying its anything good that hes not discussing as much, but I think that it might just be a newb-tell and not a scum-tell.

It's my first game too! (aside rom playing a theme game at another forum by trying to get five people to call me an idiot )

I would go back and read more, but I need to go to bed now. See ya.

[J-man]

@Brandi- your misunderstood me somewhat, I am not exactly sure how i can explain this to your benefit at all, its not that i don't know my alignment its that I try to not let it influence how i respond in games, i.e. my above statement that TC has been so generous in his dissection, (Thank you TC for that, you are just proving my vote is placed correctly)

seriously TC if that was your attempt on evaluating my posts for a reason to lynch me it was not well executed. You didn't even try to reconcile my other posts even thought they clearly say other then what you post concludes.

[J-man]

I agree with what J is saying here, but putting it into words just seems kinda...scummy. It seems like he's defending W!n a little harder than necessary.

okay then TC, so you can think it and even admit to it once it has been said, (maybe you should think for yourself) but the person who has played honestly and makes the post is guilty for posting it, I think you are just really good at saying alot of

NOTHING

[strappado]

Wow!!! You guys are moving like greased lightening, I've never missed so much in a game over one weekend, good god. I just got back to work and I've got a PILE of paperwork to get through, so obviously, I'd much rather play mafiascum

Just on a quick skim, I dont like J-man's post where he says something like "go ahead and kill me, I dont care" seems like reverse psychology at worst, just an uncaring townie at best, either way, I dont like that kind of attitude.
I also don't like TartarianCereberus' personal attacks, no reason to call someone an idiot or question their ability to speak english, I understood what J-man was saying, I may not have 100% agreed or liked it, but I understood...and TartarianCereberus said we should lynch him

because

he might be an idiot or not speak english well? Those aren't good reasons at all. Good solid posting from Brandi, she's totally OWNING this thread

[strappado]

Sorry for the long post guys, but I missed ALOT and I'm trying to catch up. I'm just reading through and jotting down my thoughts as I go.

It almost makes me sick to go back to this, it's such a dead and bludgeoned horse, but I dont want to leave anything unaddressed if I can help it...

I was under the impression you were implying that the consensus was that dice were okay ... If this is not the case, the statement is formally retracted.

"okay" is kind of a vague word, and one that I never used. If by ok, you mean "not much of a scum-tell, then yes, I said it was ok...but if by "okay" you mean a good idea for town to use, then no, I never said that, I said the opposite.

Also, I appreciate that you have an amazing vocabulary, but this may not be the best arena for it. One of the smartest men I've ever known was a vegetarian for a while, but he ate fish. The actual word for what he was is a "Pescatarian"...he knew that was the word, but not many other people know it, so when asked, he'd say he was a "fish-a-matarian" ... it may not be the correct term for it, but people understood. While he has a pretty decent vocabulary, he's smart enough to know that if people dont understand you and need to keep a pocket dictionary with them when speaking with you, then you aren't being an effective communicator. Also, town has an invested interest in being understood, scum could very easily try to "talk over us", make us feel stupid for having to ask what each word means until we stop asking and start nodding and smiling, and before we know it, you've got us right where you want us. Long story short...dumb it down a bit for us regular folk, eh?

Then TartarianCereberus brought up that he and W!nt3r were scum previously, that's probably information that was best kept to himself. Tartarian has just as much chance of being scum again as W!nt3r does, the roles are given out completely randomly. It's useless information, but it could plant the seed in some peoples minds which is bad since it's groundless. I dont think it was a particularly scummy thing to say, but definitely not good play.

@J-man: when you said this:

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me, but I'll tell you this I am no more careful townie or scum, I generally like to post without knowing my alignment.

did you mean that you haven't read your allignment? ...or you try to forget it?

@TartarianCereberus: you unvote W!nt3r and vote J-man without stating any reasons, and when asked for reasons you say you aren't trying to bandwagon, j-man just seems more scummy...why does he seem more scummy?

Post 132, Brandi gives TC and excuse for not saying much, because he's new. I think that's plausible, I was pretty quiet in the beginning of my first day, couldn't think of anything to say and with all the wild FoS's being thrown around, I was semi-scared to say anything. I dont think we should give him any excuses though, he needs to come out of his shell at some point.
Also, Brandi calls babygirl out for not posting. I'm not giving her an excuse, but I have some meta info on her. I played a game with her and she didn't post very often, and when she did it was just a short paragraph, one of the IC's meta'd her on another site she plays Mafia on and she played similarly there as town or scum. It's just her style. She was town in the game I played in with her, and if I remember correctly she came out of left field and hammered the scum the last day and won the game for us. I think she pays attention and has a good sense of the game, I would definitely like to hear more from her though.

Ignore my question directed at Tartarian, he answers it in Post 133 and says he was having server problems...understood. I dont like the post though, you personally attack j-man saying he's either an idiot, someone who can't speak English very well or scum. IMO personal attacks are pretty scummy. It's not a nice tactic to use (and this is just a game so we should be semi-nice), but it also shows that you dont have much else to say. It's like using curse words, usually people use them because they dont have the vocabulary to properly express themselves, it's like a crutch. It seems you're using personal attacks as a crutch because you have no real "case". You said you were "partially" joking, but no excuse.
I do semi-agree with TartarianCereberus' reading of j-man's post saying it seems he was "Defending W!nt3r" a little too hard - although I didn't see it as "defending" so much as buddying up. J-man's glowing review of W!nt3rs posting (saying he set himself up as a "powerful player", did a good move, put himself in a good place, and made himself "important") sounds like major ego-stroking/buddying up which is typically a scum move. W!nt3r has been shown to be a pretty decent player, he's verbose and forceful, a force to be reckoned with, you definitely wouldn't want to be on his bad side, so it would be a smart move for scum to buddy up with him early on. Stroking his ego would probably be a great way of doing that.

And disregard my question to J-man about whether he reads his allignment or not, he answered that in post 134. Understood.

TartarianCereberus and J-man are probably at the top of my scum list. I'm not near confident of my read on either of them to vote just yet, and we have plenty of time, so I see no reason to rush. I'm not sure what I think about W!nt3r, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he just misunderstood me, but I'm still keeping my eye on him.

[TartarianCerberus]

For one thing, the idiot thing was kinda a joke. And if he can't speak English well, I'd like him to come out and say it (because its a perfectly good excuse for his strange post if he was trying to say something else but didn't know how).

And J-man, I meant for you to say how much you like W!n's style of gameplay and think that he is playing superbly in front of everyone seems like you're trying to make him seem much less scummy and defending his innocence. Its fine if you think that and say it at the end of the game in a congratulations post, but it looks like you're trying to use that to influince people's decisions about W!n's innocence (and this is a fairly scummy way to do so).

Sorry about my not giving a reason at first for voting J-man, it was fairly late and I had lots of homework to do.

And babygirl, please give us an excuse for you're not posting very often.

Anyways, here's my scum-o-meter count in order from whom I think is the most scummy to the least scummy: (not going to post reasons right now, I'll do a reread later then give you some)

People I think might be scum:
J-Man - Reasons posted in this and previous posts
W!nt3r - Reasons posted in previous posts (too defensive)
pmchugh - I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

People I think are probably innocent:
strappado- doesn't seem too scummy, but more so than Brandi or James
Brandi - if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game. He's playing very pro-town and is very aggressive/active. I for one would be very surprised if he is scum, although you never know in mafia...I'd like to see how he acts when there is fewer players.

People I'm reserving judgement on:
James - reserving judgement since he is being replaced, but I don't think he was scummy (again, I'll do a reread later).
babygirl - reserving judgement since she hasn't posted anything scummy but has barely posted at all! (lurking maybe?)

[Brandi]

Tart, D: Im a girl Thank you for your input! I'm still waiting for a bit of input from a few other people before I make another huge post ^^;

MOD: THE NEW REPLACEMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE REPLACEING JAMESTHEPHOX, right? Page 1 says: Td (Replacing J-man) when IM pretty sure that it should be Td (Replacing JamesThePhox) Also BayGirl86 has not posted for 3 days, how many days of inactivity should a person have till we can ask for a prod?

[Brandi]

Also you forgot to include Dean Harper into your scum o-meter =o

[Norinel]

Augh, you're correct. J-man isn't replaced, I'll find another person to replace JamesThePhox.

Edit: Also, prodding babygirl86

[babygirl86]

I'm sorry you guys.... this semester's just incredibly tough and I'm having some personal issues right now... I'll try my hardest to get a readthrough tomorrow

[Brandi]

*hugs* Good luck Babygirl. =)

[W!nt3r]

For one thing, the idiot thing was kinda a joke. And if he can't speak English well, I'd like him to come out and say it (because its a perfectly good excuse for his strange post if he was trying to say something else but didn't know how).

And J-man, I meant for you to say how much you like W!n's style of gameplay and think that he is playing superbly in front of everyone seems like you're trying to make him seem much less scummy and defending his innocence. Its fine if you think that and say it at the end of the game in a congratulations post, but it looks like you're trying to use that to influince people's decisions about W!n's innocence (and this is a fairly scummy way to do so).

Sorry about my not giving a reason at first for voting J-man, it was fairly late and I had lots of homework to do.

And babygirl, please give us an excuse for you're not posting very often.

Anyways, here's my scum-o-meter count in order from whom I think is the most scummy to the least scummy: (not going to post reasons right now, I'll do a reread later then give you some)

People I think might be scum:
J-Man - Reasons posted in this and previous posts
W!nt3r - Reasons posted in previous posts (too defensive)
pmchugh - I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

People I think are probably innocent:
strappado- doesn't seem too scummy, but more so than Brandi or James
Brandi - if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game. He's playing very pro-town and is very aggressive/active. I for one would be very surprised if he is scum, although you never know in mafia...I'd like to see how he acts when there is fewer players.

People I'm reserving judgement on:
James - reserving judgement since he is being replaced, but I don't think he was scummy (again, I'll do a reread later).
babygirl - reserving judgement since she hasn't posted anything scummy but has barely posted at all! (lurking maybe?)

This post reeks of scum.

1. J-man's post clearly states that he thinks I may be scum, but is not sure.

This is scummy because::::: It seems your are ignoring this part of his post.

2. If i have to explain again that my posts were not at all defensive in nature I'm going to slap someone. This is getting frustrating. Defensive implies that I was attacked on a point of action I took, and subsequently tried to justify my point. My posts (outside of responding to the posts on my supposed defensiveness) have not met this prerequisite attribute.

This is scummy because::::: Further misrep by stating again that I am doing something I am not/have already gone over.

3.

I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

... I can't even begin to express the poor quality of play here.

This is scummy because::::: it's not, poor playing.

4.

if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game.

Contradiction much? (Brandi is a She as well.)

This is scummy because::::: it's not... this is bad play.

5. Where lies Dean?

This is scummy because::::: You left a player out, which can mean several things. Posting them would lead to too much WIFOM discussions.

6. Can you do us one better than re-phrasing what you've already said or what others have already said?

This is scummy because::::: You're rehashing, active lurking

.

Major Super Ultra Omega Special Exquisite Overbearing FOS: TartarianCerberus

Actually, disregard that:

Unvote

Vote TartarianCerberus

[Norinel]

Vote Count:

J-Man: 2 (JamesThePhox, TartarianCerberus)
TartarianCerberus: 2 (J-man, W!nt3r)

Not voting (5): babygirl86, Brandi, Dean Haper, pmchugh, strappado

5 to lynch

[babygirl86]

alright I got the readthrough done... thank god for days off! a few things popped out to me so I'll try and get to them as best I can, but be warned- I've never been one for extremely in depth posts... First of all I'm going to do something I don't do very well... W!nt3r- I'm sorry. At the time it seemed like your defensiveness was scummy, but now that I read over the thread it was just good gameplay what you were doing. Two people seem rather scummy to me at this point.... First off I don't like j-man's post about posting without knowing his alignment.... kind of confused me. but the more I read, the scummier it seemed. If your town, you'd know it just as if you were mafia youd know it.... unless you are mafia and post as if you don't know it to seem more pro-town(I've done that before as scum). Secondly, TC. To start off, I'm definately not a fan of criticizing other players for their gameplay(ie. your an idiot, you don't speak english, etc.) I've been criticized for my gameplay as town before and it doesn't feel good- joking or not. But moving past that... First scummy move was putting strappado at lynch-2 for a random reason... if your not scum, that definately wasn't a pro-town move. After that, he was rather quiet(I'm not saying that's a scumtell tho- I was too. I understand that school and work are bitches). I don't understand him bringing up the original roles...maybe trying to make us believe that he has a different role when he really didn't? It is a definate possibility that although the roles were re-distributed, it is possible for some people to have the same role. After that, his posts mainly seem to consist of attacking people for extremely vague reasons. I don't like the way he's playing this game... I get a huge scum-vibe from him.

vote: TartarianCerberus

[TartarianCerberus]

Tart, D: Im a girl

Whoops...

Also you forgot to include Dean Harper into your scum o-meter =o

Again, whoops... Forgot all about you Dean. I don't remember seeing you do anything scummy, but that's not to say that mafia don't try to blend in...

This post reeks of scum.

1. J-man's post clearly states that he thinks I may be scum, but is not sure. This is scummy because::::: It seems your are ignoring this part of his post.

2. If i have to explain again that my posts were not at all defensive in nature I'm going to slap someone. This is getting frustrating. Defensive implies that I was attacked on a point of action I took, and subsequently tried to justify my point. My posts (outside of responding to the posts on my supposed defensiveness) have not met this prerequisite attribute. This is scummy because::::: Further misrep by stating again that I am doing something I am not/have already gone over.

3. Quote:
I remember thinking he was scum for some reason, I'll go back and do a reread later

... I can't even begin to express the poor quality of play here. This is scummy because::::: it's not, poor playing.

4. Quote:
if he's scum I think he's playing a little too good scum for his first game.

Contradiction much? (Brandi is a She as well.) This is scummy because::::: it's not... this is bad play.

5. Where lies Dean? This is scummy because::::: You left a player out, which can mean several things. Posting them would lead to too much WIFOM discussions.

6. Can you do us one better than re-phrasing what you've already said or what others have already said? This is scummy because::::: You're rehashing, active lurking.

I think that what W!nt3r did was very well done and a very good move, except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive. He has set himself up in a very good place in the first pages making himself important through his many early posts. He has set himself up to be a powerful player, a good move for any player that feels confident either in his scum hunting or townie impersonation.

I say Good Job W!nt3r, although you have put me in a tough spot, now i have to figure out whether you are scum or not. Though who knows til your dead eh?

1. I never said that he outright claimed you were innocent (and I know that he did say that he was unsure), but (a)he did not give any reasons for or against you and (b)his talking about your gameplay might have been intended to subtely influince people's opinions of you

2. I think that your posts were a little on the defensive side throughout the game. That is my anylization of your posts, and I think others probably agree with me. The second someone says anything about you, you instantly lash out at them. If you were a townie, I think you'd be a little more calm in your responses.

3. I was tired, it was late at night, and I had about 2 hours of homework to do. Then later I got a fever of 103. Anyways, no that I have some time to look back to earlier posts...There is no reason for me to suspect him of being scum. So sorry. Must have gotten him confused with you.

4. Again, sorry about calling Brandi a she. Brandi just seems like a male name to me...I'll just have to get used to it I guess. Anyways, I meant that Brandi was remaining calm throughout the game. She never lurked (was not afraid to say anything scummy about other players), but, unlike you, she did not play to offensively or too defensively. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Brandi is one of the IC's. If this was her second or third game, maybe first time as scum, I don't think that she'd be able to stay this far under the radar. Of course, she might just be quick at picking up things. But I don't think it would be wise to convict someone of being scum for not being scummy.

5. I completely forgot to include Dean. Like I said, I was in a rush. Now that I have been reminded about Dean's existince, I'd say that he has not done anything scummy, although he hasn't been making many large posts, and therefore might be trying to just stay under the radar as scum.

6. I'm not trying to rephrase anything. I do agree with other players on some issues (such as your defensiveness). THat does not mean that I'm just lurking. To make an analogy, if two third graders were doing math problems together, and they both said that 2 + 2 = 4, would you instantly assume that because they got the same answer one of them had to have cheated off the other? That they both couldn't have simply arrived at the same answer through the same reasoning?

[TartarianCerberus]

TC. To start off, I'm definately not a fan of criticizing other players for their gameplay(ie. your an idiot, you don't speak english, etc.) I've been criticized for my gameplay as town before and it doesn't feel good- joking or not. But moving past that... First scummy move was putting strappado at lynch-2 for a random reason... if your not scum, that definately wasn't a pro-town move. After that, he was rather quiet(I'm not saying that's a scumtell tho- I was too. I understand that school and work are bitches). I don't understand him bringing up the original roles...maybe trying to make us believe that he has a different role when he really didn't? It is a definate possibility that although the roles were re-distributed, it is possible for some people to have the same role. After that, his posts mainly seem to consist of attacking people for extremely vague reasons. I don't like the way he's playing this game... I get a huge scum-vibe from him.

The idiot thing was a joke (a bad joke but a joke nonheless). I said it because to me he wasn't making any sense at all. I wasn't critisizing him for not being able to speak Engliosh, I was saying that that was a leginimate excuse for his not making sense. There are many people who do not have English as their native tounge, and therefore sometimes are not able to be clear about what they are trying to say. For all I know, J-man could have been born in China or France or something. The whole role thing I just put out there, just for everyone to know. It is useless information, and unneccessary. I would use that information the same way if I was town as I would use it if I was scum. I don't think that I have been attacking people really, just stating my suspicions about them. Right now I'm really getting a scum-vibe from Winter. (Btw

Unvote: j-man, vote: W!nt3r

, I keep changing my mind on which to vote for, the both seem pretty scummy).

[Dean Harper]

5. I completely forgot to include Dean. Like I said, I was in a rush. Now that I have been reminded about Dean's existince, I'd say that he has not done anything scummy, although he hasn't been making many large posts, and therefore might be trying to just stay under the radar as scum.

I'd like to point out that my posts usually arent big because of my posting style. I usually try not to quote, unless i feel it is necessary (quoting I usually do from large posts so ppl dont have to go back and reread). Also, I try to keep it to the point and make all of the points I have in one thread at any one point. Each post (usually) contains everything I am thinking about after reading the thread. I will make a post later after I have read everything on TC containing my thoughts.