Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Macavenger]

DBE flipping Watcher pretty much confirms Guardian, IMO. The idea that he's a targetting scum role that targeted himself to confirm a townie is pretty damn farfetched. That said, since I agree ABR is basically clear, and I know I'm town, that means Guardian is either naive (more likely IMO, based on three investigative roles, and the scum pretty clearly not having an RB) or hit a godfather. So this basically means his investigations are bunk to me.

So, I'm pretty confident Guardian and ABR are town. I know I'm town. That leaves Yos2, MBF, Joudas, PyroDwarf.

I had a town read on Joudas Day 1, so my intuitive guess would be PyroDwarf, Yos2, MBF. The strongest case against PyroDwarf is the doc fishing though, which doesn't make a ton of sense if he's fishing on a scumbuddy. Unless he would be trying ot fish for a reaction from a real Doc by questioning his buddy? I really don't know if that's a viable scum tactic or not. Hmm.

I now agree with Guardian that Yos2 is likely scum. The fact that he's just accusing Guardian of OMGUS here is a pretty good indicator IMO. Nevertheless, I'd be more comfortable if Guardian and ABR could pull their votes until we discuss it a bit more, given that this is LyLo and all.

[Yosarian2]

No... Cop 101 is investigate those you are uncertain about. I was investigating MBF or Mac, period.

Cop 101 is in lynch or lose, you find scum, period. Investigating those you are uncertain about is a good idea on day 1, but in lynch or lose?

Anyways, Note how Yos2 isn't trying to convince me that I'm wrong, he's trying to mislynch me

That's the kind of stuff that makes it hard for me to think you're town, Guardian. I have been suspicious of you, which I carefully and ratioanlly explained, and your only response has been to flip out, attack me, and then just keep insiting that you're pro-town by just repeating over and over again that an attack on you is a "mislynch", and the fact that you're attacking me for using arguments that are strictly stronger then arguments you were using the day before.

If you were town, I would think the logic of what I was saying would be self-evident, that I wouldn't have to "convince you" of anything. Unless you're town who's just so paranoid about me and so annoyed that I attacked you that you're not listening to logic.

DBE flipping Watcher pretty much confirms Guardian, IMO. The idea that he's a targetting scum role that targeted himself to confirm a townie is pretty damn farfetched.

Eh? Why's that farfetched? I'd think that any other logical explination for "cop wasts an investigation targeting himself" and "both power roles left alive by the scum" is just as unlikely. Hell, if I was a scum power role in Guardian's position, I'd be tempted to target myself and leave DBE alive as a witness to it.

I donno. I've thought Guardian was more likely town then not all game, but his claimed night actions and his behavior yesterday are just, ugh.

The fact that he's just accusing Guardian of OMGUS here is a pretty good indicator IMO.

Um...did you see the overly emotional way he acted when I and Albert attacked him yesterday? No matter what his alignment is, I can't see how there's any doubt that his attack on me was OMGUS.

[mikeburnfire]

My thoughts on the current scumgroup: Yosarian, Pyrodwarf, and Joudas, but Mac or ABR aren't ruled out.

Guardian is town, there is no doubt in my mind anymore. Is he sane or naive? I couldn't say. With a watcher and tracker, there are two theories. Either he's naive, or the moderator is using our preconceived notions of what balanced is and using our own assumptions against us to balance the game. Occam's razor would suggest the former.

I wish I could say that Guardian's investigation clears me, but that isn't the case, and it doesn't clear Joudas either. My guess is that the scum realized that Guardian was naive when he said he targeted Joudas, and thus was not a threat. Their intention two night ago seems to have been to NOT target DBE, let her waste her investigation, and have her looks even scummier.

I'm going to bed now (just got out of work), so I plan on tackling this game to the best of my ability. There's enough information here for us to take an easy win. While I am predisposed to killing Yosarian, I request that we all have time to speak our mind before the night.

I'm a townie. I'm actually kind of surprised the mafia didn't kill me after all that talk about me being a possible doctor. For what it's worth, I even thew that "We need to protect our cop" line out right before nightfall in the hopes to be a lightning rod for their kill.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote

All right then.

[Albert B. Rampage]

MBF and Guardian are almost certainly town to me.

[Guardian]

I don't see the point of un-voting, I am pretty sure Yos2 (and Pyro) are scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't see the point of un-voting, I am pretty sure Yos2 (and Pyro) are scum.

I agree. There's nothing to discuss.

[Guardian]

So, why did you unvote? Should I?

For absolute clarity when I'm dead:

I am sure are scum

Yosarian2 - Early play unlike that of a townie, feared being investigated, ill-founded attack on me, tricky scummy vibe thing
Pyrodwarf - Single-minded-ness all game.

I am sure are town

Albert - Near's play, in which he preferred self-lynch to power-role lynch
MBF - Exculpation of me, behavior while near lynch

I am not sure

Macavenger
Joudas

Slight preference for Joudas being scum, but I keep flipping in my mind between Joudas and Macavenger, so I either need to re-read, or hope that someone who follows me has better judgment than I do.

If Joudas is town, why aren't I dead, and why isn't he?

[PyroDwarf]

I don't see what the big deal with my comment is. I don't think i should be lynched for it. are there other reasons you think I am scum? I think we should take a closer look at Al B. I don't think repacing near is a clearing trait, as many others seem to.

[Joudas]

If Joudas is town, why aren't I dead, and why isn't he?

Scum wanted to:

1) Incriminate you, by leaving Darla alive for her to 'prove' you and then killing her. This might have been somewhat foiled by your targeting yourself, or they might have decided that the 'Guardian might be a roleblocker!' excuse was viable. Going to take a look back through and see who was quick to agree with me on that a little later tonight.

2) Incriminate me (and whomever else you targeted for an investigation, and you) by leaving the lot of us alive. If they'd killed you as soon as your role was revealed, I'd be essentially confirmed town right now, rather then a suspect. Perhaps you are naive, they reasoned this out based on role claims and their own roles, and knew that if you targeted one of them, and they were subsequently lynched, all of your investigations would immediately be suspect (possibly even lynched as a result, if everyone decided you were insane rather then naive).

That's my guess, anyway. Killing you would have been the "obvious" solution - by leaving you alive, they make you look increasingly scummy simply because you didn't die.

I believe Guardian to be town. I believe MBF and Albert to be town. I am a townie. I believe the scumgroup to be Yos2, Pyro, Mac, by process of elimination.

[Joudas]

On that note, though: Mac - why do you suspect MBF? He's the one I'm least sure about. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

[Macavenger]

On that note, though: Mac - why do you suspect MBF? He's the one I'm least sure about. I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

Actualy the more I think about it, the less I suspect him, but I'll kind of outline how I'm thinking right now.

Guardian and ABR are basically cleared to my satisfaction. I know I'm town. Thus, the scumgroup lies in {Joudas, PyroDwarf, Yos2, MBF}.

Yos2 and Pyrodwarf look very likely to be scum. Assuming they both are, the last scum is either Joudas or MBF.

Points in favor of MBFScum:
- imagining the Coron wagon day 1 as all townies is just painful, and he's the only one left to be scum on it.
- I read Joudas as town Day 1.
- Still feel like Yos2 came out better in their argument Day 2, although this means little now that Yos2 is very likely scum.
- Refusal to claim at L-1 was kinda odd.

For JoudasScum:
- Pyrodwarf's scumtells make far less sense if he's scum with MBF.
-

My guess is that the scum realized that Guardian was naive when he said he targeted Joudas, and thus was not a threat.

- MBF's recent actions seem pretty protown
- Aside from the refusal to claim thing, which may not mean much, MBF looked very town near lynch

I'd probably have to reread 56 pages to get much more detail, ugh. Basically as I really lay it out and look at it, the case for MBF being scum is pretty weak, so the scum is most likely Yos2, Pyrodwarf, Joudas.

The general consensus seems to be that Yos2 is going first. I'll give a bit more time for discussion, then probably vote.

[Yosarian2]

Well, as you guys are apparently all going ignore me yet again and follow Guardian and Albert to yet another mislynch for the lose after they mislead the town day 1 and day 2 respectavly, I can at least take solace in the fact that if Albert is protown, that after this game I won't have to ever again hear him bragging about his "perfect scumcatching record."

[Joudas]

I can at least take solace in the fact that if Albert is protown, that after this game I won't have to ever again hear him bragging about his "perfect scumcatching record."

If he's scum, though, you'll

never

hear the end of it.

[mikeburnfire]

I still think Yos is scum based on yesterday's lynch. He was is town, that would mean that ALL the scum were on Dasquian's wagon, and I don't think that's likely. I'm trying to ignore the fact that he vehemently tried to push my lynch Day 2, but his relentlessness is a factor to consider as well. Oh, and now he's trying to discredit the cop too. Guardian is not scum.

However, I'm not completely sure, and even though I think Pyro and Yosarian are likely scum, I'd like to wait until I can do a full review and be confident about it. Joudas and ABR make me uneasy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's listen to Guardian and get this over with. No point in delaying.

[Joudas]

Okay.

vote: Yosarian2

[mikeburnfire]

ABR, you are banned from giving advice for the rest of the game.

Joudas and ABR continue to make me uneasy. Seriously. You're all way too hellbent on getting Yosarian speedlynched.

[Joudas]

<Albert>That's because we're right! YAAAHHGH! Listen to us, seriously, or you'll regret it later!!!1</Albert>

[mikeburnfire]

Please unvote Joudas.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Yosarian2

[Albert B. Rampage]

MBF is scummy as all hell.

[mikeburnfire]

I will not vote until I have done my review, and I will not review the game if it looks like somebody will be speedlynched.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Then don't review.

[mikeburnfire]

Then I don't vote.

"MBF is almost certainly town to me" to "MBF is scummy as all hell" in less than 20 posts. And all because I don't want to do a thorough analysis only to have the thread close on me. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, considering who this is coming from.