Newbie 612: Cancelled due to mod error

[Dean Harper]

EBWOP:

Just looking at your last post at a glance TC, vote hopping is somewhat scummy.

[W!nt3r]

Ok... On a re-read you've voted 5 people in 13 posts. twice you've wagoned, twice you've voteswitched based on "they both seem scummy, but because this one is attacking me, i'll vote him"

Confirm vote: TC

Intent to lynch, no changing.

[J-man]

I would also like to restate my intent to Lynch TC.

[Brandi]

Ok, Some definite red lights are going off in my head here. I can definitely see the possibility of both W!nt3r and J-man being scum now. Tartar... not so much. These last few posts make it quite clear and now I can properly form my analysis. Bear with me here, because this is very long, though I feel that it is very crucial that my points be taken into account. I'm going to cut this up into pieces as well as go way back to the first incident with Strappado.

W!nt3r VS Strappado

Note: The following is a major speculation and is most definitely open to debate. I am posting my interpretations as plausible reasonings under the assumption that W!nt3r and J-man are scum. If the indication of more scumminess from an/other player(s) arises then I will most definitely put some of my attention towards them. For now These two stand out above everyone else and I feel inclined to give my thoughts on the matter.

On Page 3 Strap made a post in regards to the potential scumminess of using a die for a random vote. W!nt3r jumped right onto that by claiming she was misrepresenting the town by saying:

we didn't agree on anything. The town collective group never said:

It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes.

The point is that Strap never claimed such a thing to begin with. All she did was state that she believed that we have all come to an agreement about the use of the dice. She never stated that everyone agreed on one thing specifically as W!nt3r had made it out to be.

She even restated such again in her response to W!nt3rs accusation:

But I got the feeling from those of us that did discuss it that we felt

similarly

:

diceroll is not much of a scumtell, but it's also not a good idea for town as it detracts from the information that can be gained from day1

What W!nt3r did was essentially Straw Manning at Strap in an attempt to build a suspicion about her. She was the first to state something that could be taken the wrong way and therefore his first target.

A "Straw man" argument (also called "setting up a straw man") involves

mis-characterizing your opponent's position in order to present a weaker argument than they have actually given

, thereby allowing you to defeat it. It usually involves

subtle changes to the given facts of the matter

, or minor changes to wording that lead to semantic differences in what is said.

After W!nt3r had claimed his suspicions, he then assumed control/authority by directing everyone to follow him by stating:

I think we have enough reactions here to start getting into thick, lively discussion... I'm retracting my initial arbitrary vote.

At first glance such a statement would seem very innocent. But it seems to me that he was only stating such to get everyone to agree with him. He mentioned "enough reactions" when in fact the ONLY reactions at that present time were those that were generated through his attacks against strap. Even if everyone didn't necessarily agree that Strap was being scummy just yet, if everyone could see something practical in his post then they'd be more inclined to blindly agree with him later on. It comes off to me as an attempt to smoke out those that are ill composed and least likely to formulate their own thesis's or think for themselves.. W!nt3r was moderately successful here. Given these reactions:

and you're right, it appears we are out of the random voting stage, so unvote

okey-dokey then (because my vote was mostly random too).

Unvote: strappado

W!nt3r was already currently dealing with strap, but without a doubt the fact that Tartar followed a long with W!nt3r without attempting to give any form of input showed to him that he would be a very easy target later on.

It was obvious from the get-go that W!nt3r had no real case against strap, which obviously provoked confusion for myself including pmchugh who stated:

What are you two even arguing about? Whether or not we had all agreed if it was more scummy to use the dice to vote? if so then do you not agree winter? And if not why not.

W!nt3r retaliated to pmchughs confusion and accusations of defensiveness by indicating that Strappado never had an argument and that he was the attacker. He also stated that Strappado's posts were unneeded as well as misinformed.

These last two factors are examples of the logical fallacy "Argumentum ad Hominem" because of the fact that he was bringing up irrelevant factors into his reasonings. The fact that Strap was misinformed would not point to scummy behavior. The fact that Strap posted something irrelevant/unneeded, in this case, would neither point to scummy behavior. (Posting a definition is not scummy)

He claimed that Strap was being defensive and that he was the attacker, this is true.

He was correct in his indication that Strap had no argument, because he is the one that initiated the argument, not her. After his post I confronted him with many questions similar to what PM was stating, to which he responded:

Secondly I pushed it because it would get a reaction... reactions are used to find scum. I got reactions. Welcome to mafia.

This reasoning is yet another fallacy. "Because I pushed for a reaction and got one it means that I am scum hunting."

This statement is made under the assumption that such an act is purely pro-town where in this instance it is not because of one serious factor:

He was pushing for a reaction on an unfounded argument.

The initial argument was based on a misrepresented or at the very least a possibly misinterpreted statement in regards to Strappado.
There was no reason for Strappado

not

to defend herself, seeing as how there was no

real

case against her.

I'm going to cut off here for a second to direct attention to when J-man started coming into play. His reactions to W!nt3r as well as the game in general are very peculiar.

J-man VS W!nt3r????

J-man has been playing very badly since he started posting regularly. At first he didn't say much of anything at all until it became apparent that W!nt3r may have been onto something. Because of this, a long with further reasonings that I will address, I have come to the assumption that J-man could be newbie scum, and W!nt3r could be his slightly more advanced scum buddy.

J stayed moderately quiet for a while, until he felt the need to make some kind of accusation. The first accusation that J brings out there is one against me, and much like Wins accusation against Strap, it was a complete misrepresentation.

Also I would see your point if Strap actually intended to deceive anyone. But she didn't. All she did was state that she was assured that everyone had agreed on something based on the previous responses in the thread. It was just a simple mistake on her part that she didn't take into account the others that had yet to express their opinions.

That my friend is a very dangerous statement you just put out there you do realize what you have done by saying that don't you?

From this here it is apparent that he is trying to warrant an unfounded suspicion about me. However because of the fact that he did not even ATTEMPT to formulate any basis for his assumption he was unsuccessful and his accusation went slightly unnoticed.

J-man then attempts to make it seem like he supports yet at the same time is skeptical of W!nt3r by putting out there:

About the whole W!nt3r baiting you guys, GJ winter you defiantly got the game rolling but mabye next time a little bait and switch would be more effective in drawing out the mafia.

and then later stating:

I think that what

W!nt3r did was very well done and a very good move

, except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive.

He has set himself up in a very good place in the first pages making himself important through his many early posts. He has set himself up to be a powerful player, a good move for any player that feels confident either in his scum hunting

or townie impersonation.

To this(the red part) I would say: If you are going to imply that it possibly could be a townie impersonation, then you should spend less time complimenting and more time speculating. This goes out to the people complimenting me as well. I appreciate the fact that you think I am playing well, I wont argue it, but don't use that as an excuse to not question me. If you start to believe that some one in no way could be scum[[[unless you somehow have definite proof of otherwise, of course]]], then you may very well miss some vital indications of otherwise later on.

ANYWAY. J-man was blatantly building W!nt3r up by complimenting him on his game play. The only things that he brought up AGAINST him were things that were PREVIOUSLY BROUGHT UP by

others.

His 'skepticism' against W!nt3r was just him following the crowd. Perhaps he was intending to make it seem that he was contributing? Perhaps he was clandestinely intending to make W!nt3r seem like he could not be scum? Who knows. Maybe he genuinely DOES believe that W!nt3r is just a very good player, but that possibility alone is not enough to discard the possibility of otherwise. J-man seems to really switch off between supporting W!nt3r and being against W!nt3r very often.

After W!nt3r gives a reply, J-man infers that W!nt3r is beating a dead point. I am still not completely sure as to why he would even bother stating such. W!nt3r catches onto this and states his distaste for J-mans posts and then promptly votes him.

J-man then goes on in an attempt to defend himself, in a very incoherent manner. W!nt3r then continues to go on about how ridiculous and scummy/anti-town J-man is coming off. (which I agree with completely)

It would seem that W!nt3r was pretty certain that J-man was suspicious after what he had posted. But low and behold Tartar posted this:

This is ridiculous...

Unvote: W!nt3r, Vote: J-Man (or td if Noriniel's replacing J-Man, I think he meant James), just for acting all-around scummy. Either he's mafia, or he's just horrible at making sens

Obviously here he was jumping on the bandwagon, which brings me to the third part of my elaborate post:

TarTarianCerberus = scum?

Here is where my head really turned. NOT because of the fact that Tartar went about agreeing with what the majority was focused on, but more so the fact that the focus was shifted from someone who was DEFINITELY MOST LIKELY TO BE SCUM onto someone who was POTENTIALLY BUT NOT VERY LIKELY TO BE SCUM.

W!nt3r is the first to note towards Tartars fallacy by stating:

@ Tartarian: Band-wagoning is rather unhelpful for your case should we go to day two with 2 dead townspeople.

Tartar had already much earlier made it apparent that he was not one to get too in depth by formulating any serious opinions and just going a long with what others had said. This is definitely not a good way to play, but in no way can I possibly understand how this makes him more scummy than someone who has claimed:

1)

Oh and if you don't like the way of my play kill me

2)

maybe i don't take this game a seriously as you do.

3)

if you lynch me it will be a mistake but i won't be alive to regret it

Also WAY after the fact when W!nt3r posts here:

Confirm vote: TC Intent to lynch, no changing.

J-man IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWS UP SAYING THE SAME EXACT THING:

I would also like to restate my intent to Lynch TC.

It seems to me that

J-man

is JUST AS MUCH INTO FOLLOWING THE CROWD AS TartarianCerberus. He initially voted him after the fact that others were already on his case. Seemingly somewhat in attempts to create a red herring to alter the focus from him onto TC. His reasonings made just as little sense as those of Tartar:

I would also like to throw in on TartarianCerberus, (herefore referred to as TC) in as much as you find me scummy TC is at least as scummy I do not abide lurkers with out great reason, and I have found that my instinct in meat mafia (meat=rl) is often spot on, and just to remind you all re-Vote:TartarianCerberus

My point is, there is a serious case against J-man, and the only real case there is against TARTAR is that he has failed to properly prove why he agrees with the fact that J-man is scummy without restating things that have already been stated by other players.

I do not think that Tartar could NOT be scum, but I definitely think that J-man is DEFINITELY the MOST scummy player so far.

My above speculations point towards my opinion on how W!nt3r has been acting scummy, which is even more so shown with his last post:

Ok... On a re-read you've voted 5 people in 13 posts. twice you've wagoned, twice you've voteswitched based on "they both seem scummy, but because this one is attacking me, i'll vote him"

Confirm vote: TC Intent to lynch, no changing.

Pointing out that he has made 5 votes in his 13 posts is irrelevant. His first and second votes were BOTH random in the RANDOM STAGE. His 3rd vote was for you, his 4th for J-man and his 5th was back to you. He has only SERIOUSLY voted for 2 people. The only uncalled for vote he may have made was most likely the last one.

I'm sorry W!nt3r, but the fact that you have no intent on changing your vote and are pushing for a lynch on TARTAR unnerves me.

We NEVER got a read on JamesthePhox, and his replacement has YET TO SHOW UP. Babygirl86 has given us NOTHING to question yet. It almost seems unfair to push for a lynch so quickly without any serious input from all of the players. I know that Babygirl86 has her alibi for not posting, but that doesn't mean we can't rule her out as potential scum, REGARDLESS of what Strap brought up about her meta. Not to mention that J-man is unarguably more scummy than Tartar.

I think I'm going to end this post here for now, because I've touched on all the major things that I want to point out. I'll go about pointing out minor things later on. For now:

FOS: W!nt3r, TC

VOTE:J-man

Input. PLEASE. NO TL;DR. I know its TORTURE people. I promise to try to be less verbose in the future. Forgive me for any obvious redundancies/spelling/grammar issues, After typing all of this out and all of this analysis if I try to go back and make it perfect I'm going to make myself sick.<3

MOD: WHERE IS THE REPLACEMENT? =(

[Norinel]

James has informed me that he'd be able to post after all, and thus wouldn't need replacement.

[Dean Harper]

Wow thats a lot to read in one sitting, will read teh last two sections tomorrow, and post about it too.

[J-man]

Brandi you seem to like to post alot but as far as I know I voted for TC way back on the first page and haven't looked back since, I thought TCs guilt was becoming more clear rather then less clear to the rest of you, *sigh*

And about your fabricated W!nt3r-Jman connection its silly, I can explain exactly why I have been wavering on W!nt3rs guilt, its because he has been playing well and his posts say one thing when my instinct say another. I'm sorry if you have a problem with me complimenting people but mabye you should try reading my posts and taking them at there face value because that what they are. Maybe try looking at it from my POV, mine being that I'm pro-town ofcourse. Who else is there to Accuse... well do what you must.

I would not be surprised if it was a TC W!nt3r scum pair

[pmchugh]

Sorry I havent been active, ive got an exam tommorow, I will read up and post something.

[pmchugh]

Non-game related stuff:

OTT= Over the top. Winter you make me feel stupid
why do PEOPLE like to put EVERY third word in CAPITALS?

Game Related stuff:

I still do not believe winter to be scum, this is because i dont believe that scum (espicially IC scum) would draw that attention to themselves unneccesarily so early on. I also believe he is because of his play style, he is very assured of who he thinks is scum and very decisive. Scum generally like to keep their options open as if they are wrong then they can be in trouble.

On TC he has played poorly but that doesnt mean I think he is scum, although I would like to know why you get scummy vibes from me.

J-man, I agree with Brandi here he seems scummy to me. His intent to lynch TC is for two reasons, TC suspected him and he is the other likely target at the moment. A town member shouldnt just worry about themselves but also on who seems most likely to be scum.

His latest post:

Brandi you seem to like to post alot but as far as I know I voted for TC way back on the first page and haven't looked back since, I thought TCs guilt was becoming more clear rather then less clear to the rest of you, *sigh*

And about your fabricated W!nt3r-Jman connection its silly, I can explain exactly why I have been wavering on W!nt3rs guilt, its because he has been playing well and his posts say one thing when my instinct say another. I'm sorry if you have a problem with me complimenting people but mabye you should try reading my posts and taking them at there face value because that what they are. Maybe try looking at it from my POV, mine being that I'm pro-town ofcourse. Who else is there to Accuse... well do what you must.

I would not be surprised if it was a TC W!nt3r scum pair

The "spoiler" bit of your post is you again merely trying to offload blame onto others you are desperate and I know this word has been used a lot but your very defensive (just like w!nt3r ) and forceful. But not in the same way as w!nt3r your posts are more insulting than anything, you and winter being scum is possible and is not a "silly" idea.

fos j-man

[strappado]

My personal top 3 scumspects are j-man, Tartarian & W!nt3r (as previously stated, and pretty much in that order). Those three and their interactions just keep pinging the scumdar. I'm not sure which one I feel more confident on, I'm going to have to re-read and probably keep re-reading, and there's a LOT to read. At this point, I feel more confident on j-man because of his "Just kill me" lack of caring attitude (reverse psychology?), and his strong W!nt3r ego-stroke/buddying up. It seemd to me that the whole intent of that post was to stroke W!nt3r's ego, and the last bit of "but maybe he's scum <shrug>" just seemed like an ackwardly tacked on bit just to make it seem like a real substance post rather than an "Oh my god W!nt3r, you're so awesome and powerful, have you lost weight? You look great in green, it brings out your eyes" kinda post.
Brandi's post kind of tore me in different directions, she seems to have a very analytical mind and she pointed out things and put things together that I hadn't honestly noticed. I dont know if that's because they aren't there, or because I just didn't notice them, I'm going to have to read through the actual posts and see what I feel there.

for now,

Fos J-man

[TartarianCerberus]

Just looking at your last post at a glance TC, vote hopping is somewhat scummy.

That's because I'm honestly not sure which of them is more scummy. I find them both very scummy, for reasons I stated on the previous page. Whichever one of them you guys feel more confident lynching, I'm up for it.

@Brandi:
Wow. That has to be the longest mafia post I have ever seen. I agree with you in saying that j-man is the most scummy (especially because of his complimenting winter, and his confusing post about not knowing whether he is scum or townie -- I'd still like him to elaborate on that), and for that reason he and winter are most likely to be scumbuddies, as winter has been overly defensive and attacking people for no good reason (e.g. strappado). I'd like to see if one of them are lynched if the other's style of playing changes at all...That's interesting about the straw man argument you brought up there. Never heard of it before, but it does seem to match what winter was doing at that time quite nicely. With winter, I think it's definately all about extremes. Either he's playing like he's playing so he can hunt out scum very efficiantly, or he's playing as a diehard scum. I agree with what you're saying about j-man complimenting winter and then not making a decision -- i said it myself a few posts back.

W!nt3r is the first to note towards Tartars fallacy by stating:

@ Tartarian: Band-wagoning is rather unhelpful for your case should we go to day two with 2 dead townspeople.

Tartar had already much earlier made it apparent that he was not one to get too in depth by formulating any serious opinions and just going a long with what others had said. This is definitely not a good way to play, but in no way can I possibly understand how this makes him more scummy than someone who has claimed

I think I have been formulating serious opinions, etc., but I have agreed with what alot of other people are saying. If many people are looking at one scummy post by j-man, the'res a good chance the'll have the same opinion as other people looking at the post. Also, I just noticed about the thing winter said about 2 dead townspeople: could that mean that he was implying that he thought that there was nothing scummy about j-man? if so, that's another example of why it's likely for them to be scumbuddies.

Now, about j-mans post: it's one of the scummiest things I've seen him post so far, which is saying alot since basically everything he posts is very scummy or mindlessly agreeing with whatever winter says or does.

Brandi you seem to like to post alot but as far as I know I voted for TC way back on the first page and haven't looked back since

So you are you saying that you voted for me on the first page because you thought I was scummy because I screwed up a hotlink in my signature? I do hope that that was just a confusing sentance and not what I thought it was saying...

I thought TCs guilt was becoming more clear rather then less clear to the rest of you, *sigh*

Can you tell us exactly why you think I am guilty? Because as far as I can remember, you haven't given us a solid reason throughout the entire game, but have just been following along with what winter was saying.

And about your fabricated W!nt3r-Jman connection its silly, I can explain exactly why I have been wavering on W!nt3rs guilt, its because he has been playing well and his posts say one thing when my instinct say another. I'm sorry if you have a problem with me complimenting people but mabye you should try reading my posts and taking them at there face value because that what they are. Maybe try looking at it from my POV, mine being that I'm pro-town ofcourse. Who else is there to Accuse... well do what you must.

So you're saying that we should start taking all posts at face value instead of actually thinking about them? I think that you might have come to the wrong website if you wanted to not think.

I would not be surprised if it was a TC W!nt3r scum pair

This is the scummiest part of your post by far. Would you mind telling us why you think that it might be a TC Winter scum pair? Because you have given us no reason at all, and if I was you I would be shocked if two people trying to get the other lynched for half the game were scumbuddies.

[J-man]

Frak it, you are all wasting your time Fos'n me you are all divisive as a box of turnips lol. Well since you guys seem to wasting your time and everthing I say just mskes me more and more scummy I guess I have no choice but to claim some of you might say that this is too early I still had time. That is no more true then the first time Brandi said she would vote for me and didn't there is a good chance that I will be gone for the next 36hrs so not to take action would be more silly and since this is the only action remaining hear ya go you silly townies.

I am the Cop

*sigh* I can't believe that you guys thought what I was doing was budding up to W!nt3r, any decent no bad mafia player knows that you distance yourself from your mafia partner. The only time reverse psych would have a chance of working is if you were in a larger game so you could sell out your weaker mafia partners, probably one of the most absurd I have heard in the YEARS I have been playing. lol

to defend my claim I have very few things to say, firstly It is a very bad Idea for the mafia to counter-claim, I have a 25% no less due to player error (addressed that in my first line) since it will make me the obvious mafia target during N1. Although there is a chance the mafia may go for the reverse psych and not kill me so they lynch me day2 and waste a lynch bringing it to LYLO on day 3. I believe it will be LYLO have to do the math to be sure (assuming no doc saves tho).

In the remote chance that we are playing with a full load of roles (Mafia role blocker Cop Doc) I would ask the Doc to save me, since it is unlikely that they would both try to NK me and RB (role block) me

Proof that my claim is legit-
(ie. breadcrumbing)

I say Good Job W!nt3r, although you have put me in a tough spot, now i have to figure out whether you are scum or not. Though who knows til your dead eh?

this particular phrase was from my point of view phrased hypothetically the answer being the cop ofcourse ie. me.

OK I just read TC's post 160 and I can't help but post about it even though it was not the original intention of this post.

TC you don't understand the mechanics of a scum pair if you believe your last line.

This is the scummiest part of your post by far. Would you mind telling us why you think that it might be a TC Winter scum pair? Because you have given us no reason at all,

and if I was you I would be shocked if two people trying to get the other lynched for half the game were scumbuddies.

THAT IS EXACTLY THE WHAT MOST MAFIA PARTNERS DO, oh my no wonder your guys think i am mafia, sometimes i forget im in a newbie game . One of the most effective strategies in mafia for the mafia is to sell out your partner it is often not done til a reasonable townsperson would do it so that people don't get suspicious, and often they just verbally joust for the entire game or even part of it it is called distancing. If one of them are lynched then the other looks good, a win win situation for the mafia. Any of the IC's should be able to back this up with experience, It's true and I can't believe that people don't know even that basic of tactic, I guess thats why there are newbie games lol

[babygirl86]

hahaha nice try j-man but did you really think you could claim cop and not have someone counter claim you? you just sealed your fate in this game. I am the cop... nice try.

unvote, vote j-man

[pmchugh]

Ok was there some major muck up in this game, I am cop too. Either that or j-man and babygirl are scum buddies but I think thats a huge risk for babygirl to take to counter claim her partner.

[pmchugh]

MOD have you gave the cop role to multiple people?

[strappado]

NO, I AM SPARTACUS!

OMG...so we have 3+ cops? I feel bad for the poor SOB's that got the mafia roles

Either Norinel made an oopsy, or we have two scum fake claiming... is there another possibility I'm missing?

[pmchugh]

What happens if a mistake has been made? I take it the game would be scrapped so that means either way it doent matter if we lynch j-man.

1. if hes lying we lynch some scum.
2. if hes telling the truth then it doesnt matter cause the game will end anyway.

unvote vote j-man

[TartarianCerberus]

OMG. I say we lynch them all until we find the real cop, then lynch the other liars. This certainly adds a new twist to the game. We should probably lynch J-man first, since he was the only one already on our radar before the cop claims.

Btw, J-

TC you don't understand the mechanics of a scum pair if you believe your last line.

This is the scummiest part of your post by far. Would you mind telling us why you think that it might be a TC Winter scum pair? Because you have given us no reason at all, and if I was you I would be shocked if two people trying to get the other lynched for half the game were scumbuddies.

THAT IS EXACTLY THE WHAT MOST MAFIA PARTNERS DO, oh my no wonder your guys think i am mafia, sometimes i forget im in a newbie game . One of the most effective strategies in mafia for the mafia is to sell out your partner it is often not done til a reasonable townsperson would do it so that people don't get suspicious, and often they just verbally joust for the entire game or even part of it it is called distancing. If one of them are lynched then the other looks good, a win win situation for the mafia. Any of the IC's should be able to back this up with experience, It's true and I can't believe that people don't know even that basic of tactic, I guess thats why there are newbie games lol

Yeah, I know a little bit of suspicion, a little FoS here and there is a good thing for scum to do, but for them to actually campaign to get the other lynched without being desperate? i just don't see it.

[strappado]

Woah, maybe we could wait until Norinel responds?

I'm not comfortable with a rush lynch, the possibility (to me) remains that he's actually the cop.

I'm waiting to hear from Norinel. Just a "no mistakes were made" post would suffice...or a "mistakes were made, roles will be re-re-shuffled" post.

[TartarianCerberus]

You know, this whole thing would be friggin' hilarious if this was the setup with 2 goons and 7 townies -- no power roles?

[TartarianCerberus]

Come on strap, there's no way mod made a mistake and told three people they were cop. I say just lynch them.

[strappado]

Mod's are humans, they make mistakes just like we do. I can't think of any reason why both scum would fake claim. And I can't think of any reason to push a quick lynch of a claimed cop except scummy reasons.

Let's just wait this one out, see what the mod says, and go from there. If he really did oopsy, then there's no reason to vote because it wont count, I'm pretty sure he'd have to end the game and reshuffle roles or something. If he didn't oopsy, then I think we owe it to j-man and the other two to actually review and make a decision as a town on who seems more believable.

[TartarianCerberus]

Fine. I'm just anxious to move on to a new day when we have more information (cop investigate -- although now that we have three cops it probably won't do much good ), see who mafia killed so we can see who would like to kill who, etc. But I guess you're right.

[Brandi]

This is insane. I do not believe a single one of you who have claimed cop. Claiming cop Day 1 is asking to get yourself NKed, but with 3 claims I can only assume that 1 or 2 of you are scum, and 1 of you are just trying to throw in some confusion for the scum. I'm going to have to make another long ass reply aren't I? Since J-man was the first to claim cop then I am without a doubt certain that he is scum. A fake cop claim can never be good, and its obvious out of the 3 that have claimed that he is the least honest.

[Brandi]

you know what, then again, re reading...

MOD DID YOU SEND OUT MULTIPLE COP ROLES?