Mafia 78: Meta Breaking Mafia 1 - Game over!


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Post Post #775 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 8:25 am

Post by Surye »

shaft.ed wrote:Surye when did you start using code in mafia games?
I thought code in that sense was to signal other members, this is just a one-way function to prove shared knowledge later.

If this is against the rules or sotg, I apologize and will correct it if I can, I just thought it was okay.
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Post Post #776 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 9:00 am

Post by shaft.ed »

Surye wrote:
shaft.ed wrote:Surye when did you start using code in mafia games?
I thought code in that sense was to signal other members, this is just a one-way function to prove shared knowledge later.

If this is against the rules or sotg, I apologize and will correct it if I can, I just thought it was okay.
No it's just that Adel talks about code claiming quite often, was curious where it came from, that's all.
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Post Post #777 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 9:10 am

Post by Surye »

shaft.ed wrote:
Surye wrote:
shaft.ed wrote:Surye when did you start using code in mafia games?
I thought code in that sense was to signal other members, this is just a one-way function to prove shared knowledge later.

If this is against the rules or sotg, I apologize and will correct it if I can, I just thought it was okay.
No it's just that Adel talks about code claiming quite often, was curious where it came from, that's all.

I'm big into crypto, so it's a natural solution for me. I think Adel thinks like me some times (Her charts for example, I love data analysis :P)
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Post Post #778 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:08 am

Post by Elias_the_thief »

so yeah.
unvote
. I guess my next wagon candidate would be gorrad. and perhaps tar after that.
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Post Post #779 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:09 am

Post by Tarhalindur »

Gorrad wrote:Joyous, so the one point against me specifically is that I bandwagoned. That's easily explainable, I actually took good notes during this readthrough. Therefore, because I had notes on hand, I was comfortable voting those I mentioned as scummy. Typically, I don't have notes nearly as good at this, so I'll find one very scummy player and not remember much about others. Not exactly a good strategy, hence the change. Other points I can't defend against, as I didn't cause them.

Also, as much as I hate to admit it, Tar's second paragraph does make sense. He didn't mention the posibility of him being lynched, naturally, but too many people seem to have fallen for Xtoxm's fakeclaim for an Xtoxm lynch to be viable. Ah well, we'll see.
The more important factors for me are that 1) Ecto was, as far as I am concerned, scummy as all hell (not your fault, but you still pay the price for the actions of your predecessor) and 2) I can't see another good preexisting wagon at this point (I have explained why the other three wagons are bad, and I know of no reason why your lynch would be as bad as the three I mentioned), and with deadline a preexisting wagon is our best bet IMO.

Also, unless you have an ability that can find the SK or you know that the SK is investigation immune (for that second one, read: you are the SK), GTFO Xtoxm. Since the beginning of the day, I have strongly suspected that there is an SK-specific investigation role, and so far nobody else has claimed to be that role.

In other news, shaft.ed just took a HUGE jump onto my scumdar for his new crypto tangent (which feels REALLY odd to me - it looks like an attack, but shaft.ed's heart doesn't seem to be in it... possible Information Instead of Analysis?). I need to do a fast read and compare his play here to his play in Open 57 (where he was scum).
FoS: shaft.ed


Finally, as for shaft.ed's question: An Adel/Ecto scumpair could have derailed the Surye wagon for townie points. For that matter, while Surye is not a good lynch for today, I won't consider him completely clear unless I hear that the masons are confirmed innocent (which Surye has so far failed to do).
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Post Post #780 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:20 am

Post by shaft.ed »

Tar wrote:In other news, shaft.ed just took a HUGE jump onto my scumdar for his new crypto tangent (which feels REALLY odd to me - it looks like an attack, but shaft.ed's heart doesn't seem to be in it... possible Information Instead of Analysis?). I need to do a fast read and compare his play here to his play in Open 57 (where he was scum).
I apologize for following a hunch. Would you rather me not contribute as it seems most others are more than willing to do?
Finally, as for shaft.ed's question: An Adel/Ecto scumpair could have derailed the Surye wagon for townie points.
How does one blatanly derail a wagon for townie points? If the wagon is derailed you only get the townie points when said townie is deceased. Seems a bit off to me.
Tar wrote:I won't consider him completely clear unless I hear that the masons are confirmed innocent
Agreed, Surye did you not see this question? Please answer.
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Post Post #781 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:24 am

Post by Surye »

I did miss that question, and no, the mason is not mod confirmed. My role tells me that I have reason to trust my partner, but cannot be sure. I'm not positive what this means, especially in a "Meta Breaking" game, but I've not found reason to suspect my partner yet.
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Post Post #782 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:50 am

Post by Guardian »

Vote Count #31


Gorrad[3] (Kison, Xtoxm, Tarhalindur)
Xtoxm[2] (pickemgenius, Gorrad)
Tarhalindur[2] (Surye, shaft.ed)
Surye[1] (Machiavellian-Mafia)


Not Voting[4]: (the silent speaker, Rosso Carne, Toaster Strudel, elias_the_thief)

~~~

Deadline hits in 25 hours & 10 minutes.
Do not lynch me.
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Post Post #783 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:55 am

Post by Surye »

I don't dissagree with an Ecto/Gorrad lynch, but one interesting note is the people ON Gorrad's wagon. Tar, who is the alternate wagon. Xtoxm, who is the one who defended tar in a scummy way. Kison (nothing really interesting here, he makes good anti-Gorrad points).

We've got 1 day to make this lynch, Tar or Gorrad are better then a no lynch, so lets decide. Tar's vague claim tips the scale for me personally, coupled with Xtoxm's response to it.
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Post Post #784 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 11:55 am

Post by shaft.ed »

can we get a DGB/TS prod please
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Post Post #785 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 12:46 pm

Post by Toaster Strudel »

I like the Gorrad case the best. I believe the Xtomx claim, and the Surye claim. Sorry for the low participation, but it's spring and I have a lot to do in the garden, so I have less free time than usual.

vote: Gorrad
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Post Post #786 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 12:54 pm

Post by Machiavellian-Mafia »

Although Tar was basically nonexistent D1, I get much better vibes from him in his recent posts, which made sense and had some valid points. I don't think Tar is the lynch today.

On the other hand, I like a Gorrad lynch much better. His predecessor Ecto was one of those general non-contributors who posted mostly one-liners with no reasoning and was involved in the Surye derailment. And since I'm currently buying Xtoxm's claim, I see Gorrad's strong reactions to Xtoxm as signs of more likely SK than not.

Unvote, Vote: Gorrad
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Post Post #787 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 1:00 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

I'm personally not seeing the reasoning behind a Gorrad lynch. I don't think I will vote him unless it is the only way to prevent a no lynch.

MM why do you think he's a likely SK? That's a big stretch based off of a single comment in my eyes.
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Post Post #788 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 2:35 pm

Post by Gorrad »

L-2 = claim time. I'm an overeager vig. Must kill every night, cannot target self. I killed Adel. I stated much suspicion of her before night, and it payed off. That's why I don't believe Xtoxm. It's possible that there's a SK, but I highly doubt it. Scum would see that kill, assume SK, and claim accordingly. Simple, neh?

The fact that I'm claiming this also negates any allegations of my being partnered with Adel. If I was, then I could be counter-claimed. I won't be, therefore that bit of suspicion should be dropped immeadiately, thank you Tar.

Tar and Xtoxm are top of my list. If I survive today, I'll gaurantee one dead tomorrow (so you can be assured it's not a one-shot ability). Now, can we lynch Xtoxm please?
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Post Post #789 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 2:46 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

Gorrad wrote:L-2 = claim time. I'm an overeager vig. Must kill every night, cannot target self. I killed Adel. I stated much suspicion of her before night, and it payed off. That's why I don't believe Xtoxm. It's possible that there's a SK, but I highly doubt it. Scum would see that kill, assume SK, and claim accordingly. Simple, neh?

The fact that I'm claiming this also negates any allegations of my being partnered with Adel. If I was, then I could be counter-claimed. I won't be, therefore that bit of suspicion should be dropped immeadiately, thank you Tar.

Tar and Xtoxm are top of my list. If I survive today, I'll gaurantee one dead tomorrow (so you can be assured it's not a one-shot ability). Now, can we lynch Xtoxm please?
If your claim is truthful you should know that lynching Xtoxm is suboptimal. Also a SK investigator without a SK could make sense in this particular game.
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Post Post #790 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 2:53 pm

Post by Gorrad »

If we lynch Xtoxm I'm free to kill Tar, and vice-versa.

Also, I disagree with you that it makes sense. If he did put it there, it was just to screw with the town (making y'all think I'm the SK, given the limits of my role). It's a possibility, but this is meta-breaking mafia, not screw-the-town mafia.

On that note, I would like to claim screw-the-town mafia for me to mod at a later point.
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Post Post #791 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 3:23 pm

Post by Kison »

I'm inclined to agree with Gorrad on this. Unless people can provide examples of where there's been an SK investigator in a game without an SK, I do see it as more of a bastard mod move rather than meta-breaking. Which would make Gorrad's level of confidence a rather gutsy move.

Gorrad : how confident are you that Xtoxm is lying? I would say it would look pretty bad for you if you wind up being wrong about this. If he winds up being what he claims to be, then I'm going to have a hard time coming to grips with you being Town.

That is, unless someone can show me an instance where there's been an SK investigator without an SK. Personally I have never been in such a game(unless my memory is failing horribly).

Unvote

Vote : Xtoxm
(pending response)
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Post Post #792 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Post by Gorrad »

I'd give him an 88% chance of being scum.
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Post Post #793 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 3:31 pm

Post by Tarhalindur »

Gorrad wrote:L-2 = claim time. I'm an overeager vig. Must kill every night, cannot target self. I killed Adel. I stated much suspicion of her before night, and it payed off. That's why I don't believe Xtoxm. It's possible that there's a SK, but I highly doubt it. Scum would see that kill, assume SK, and claim accordingly. Simple, neh?

The fact that I'm claiming this also negates any allegations of my being partnered with Adel. If I was, then I could be counter-claimed. I won't be, therefore that bit of suspicion should be dropped immeadiately, thank you Tar.

Tar and Xtoxm are top of my list. If I survive today, I'll gaurantee one dead tomorrow (so you can be assured it's not a one-shot ability). Now, can we lynch Xtoxm please?
I have some difficulty buying this, but it is *potentially* consistent with what I know.

Regardless, I think it's time for my claim (mainly because if Gorrad is telling the truth and alive tonight he needs to know just how stupid his idea is). I'm a Cop (sanity currently unknown). I investigated ABR N1 (because he's ABR); despite ABR's death, I found that he was specifically not a member of the Mafia (so I'm either Sane or Naive, and I can apparently only find Mafia). This suggests to me that there is a second scumgroup in the game; if so, Gorrad is almost certainly the SK.

I think I know what should be done here. We keep myself, Gorrad, and Xtoxm alive today. Tonight, Gorrad targets Xtoxm. If Xtoxm comes up scum, Gorrad is mostly clear; if Gorrad kills a different player or if Xtoxm is an FBI Agent, Gorrad gets lynched tomorrow (or left alive for a bit if I survive with a guilty).

As for who should be lynched at deadline... my best candidate is shaft.ed. After my reread here, his play looks much, much more like his play in Open 57 and House Mafia (where he was scum) than his play in Mini 492 and Mini 495 (where he was town). Note the short posts, Mafia theory, and lack of long analysis posts - coming from shaft.ed, that's remarkably scummy.

Unvote, Vote: shaft.ed
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Post Post #794 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 3:53 pm

Post by Surye »

I've been constantly saying I don't like Xtoxm, but have been reluctant to discount his claim without something substantial.

This is substantial. It's a multi-person, multi-angle ordeal.

However Tar's claim was a bit early, and it quite dangerous for town I think, if the next series of lynches and actions don't play out right we can loose two very valuable power roles.

Tar's plan seems solid, should clear all 3, and Xtoxm dies in all situations he deserves it.

Unvote
I'll figure out where my vote goes tonight, I need to think about this.
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Post Post #795 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 3:58 pm

Post by the silent speaker »

I endorse that Gorrad plan, with the proviso that Xtoxm also targets Gorrad. However, I'd caution you that some cops get "he's dead, Jim" when true regardless of sanity, as a safeguard against using the nightkill to determine sanity (intentionally or otherwise); so until you build up some living results, and then one of tose dies, don't rule out the possibility of insane and paranoid just yet.

I believe that he did kill Adel, and thus is not mafia (of her faction), pending a counterclaim.
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Post Post #796 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 3:59 pm

Post by Elias_the_thief »

Nothing about shafted rings scum to me...these new claims mean i need to reread. but yeah this game is getting a lot better.
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Post Post #797 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 4:00 pm

Post by Elias_the_thief »

Nothing about shafted rings scum to me...these new claims mean i need to reread. but yeah this game is getting a lot bette now
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Post Post #798 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 4:03 pm

Post by Elias_the_thief »

Nothing about shafted rings scum to me...these new claims mean i need to reread. but yeah this game is getting a lot better now
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Post Post #799 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 4:05 pm

Post by Gorrad »

WOW! Grats on managing a tri-post with each slightly different. Quite a feat.
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