Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Then don't be surprised.

[Claus]

Am I forgetting something? Oh yeah:

Vote Count!

Yosarian2 3 - Guardian, Joudas, ABR

Not Voting:

Macavenger, MBF, PyroDwarf, Yosarian2

With 7 players alive, it is 4 to lynch!

[mikeburnfire]

- imagining the Coron wagon day 1 as all townies is just painful, and he's the only one left to be scum on it.

Actually, because the Coron wagon was so quickly and illogically produced, scum are less likely to be on it, especially if you consider that the other wagons on DBE (proven town) and ABR (you believe to be town). Why would scum want to quickly jump on a speedlynch like that and risk looking suspicious when they're already voting town?

- I read Joudas as town Day 1.

Really? I don't have much of a read on Joudas Day 1 (I might once I reread). What's your reasoning?

- Still feel like Yos2 came out better in their argument Day 2, although this means little now that Yos2 is very likely scum.

I disagree, obviously. I still feel like most of the attack on me were easily refuted.

- Refusal to claim at L-1 was kinda odd.

If I claimed townie, the mafia would have that information, and the town would have nothing new, except more indifference to my death. By not claiming and instead arguing against my lynch, I prevented the mafia from getting that information. I also caught PyroDwarf trying to rolefish, but that was just a bonus.

It seems that Yosarian is one vote away from being lynched. So be it. But I won't be on it. It's too easy. Scum are definitely on this wagon. And they're either trying to speedlynch a townie, or trying to sacrificing him to look better.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Boo-hoo. Pussy.

[mikeburnfire]

Nope. I'm through acting on emotions.

[Guardian]

unvote

?

no way albert + joudas = scum though... HM..

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote

What now. Macavenger ?

[Guardian]

Nah still Yos2, just, the quick timing on the votes makes me :X.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's the problem with folks nowadays. No decisiveness.

[mikeburnfire]

I dunno about you, ABR, but I'm playing to win, not to be headstrong.

Since the pressure's off, I'll go through and do my read. Probably tomorrow morning since I get out of work early.

[PyroDwarf]

damn ABR, didn't your daddy talk to you about your attitude problem? Seriously, with the way you are acting, I'm inclined to think that you are scum with joudas/mac and yos, and you are trying to kill him to maintain your "7for7" of course you want to kill him. after he dies, you can just say: "see, now im 8for8, i cant be wrong! kill Pyro or MBF! "

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pyro I think you're town. Always have.

[mikeburnfire]

I have done my read and agree with Joudas that Yos, Pyro, and Mac are our scum.

Pyrodwarf has been stingy with his votes and only vote for people who are now confirmed or essentially confirmed town.
Several times he agreed with Macavenger, but never addressed him directly. He only mentioned Yosarian two times offhandedly as a possible scum, never addressing him directly. He talked to Joudas three times and ABR twice. This leads me to believe he is not scum with Joudas or ABR, and that he, Mac, and Yosarian are the scum.

Macavenger has not addressed Yosarian directly either. Mac addressed Pyro twice--once in regards to a page 2 action, pointless, and again when Pyro made a post about "like the cop for scum". He interrogated him lightly and never followed up. Getting closer to LyLo, he starts throwing him under the bus. All of a sudden he agrees with all the previous points against him. He rehashes the doc-fishing, Guardian-voting, MBF-Omgus-voting. He attempts to pursuade ABR to be more suspicious of Pyrodwarf than Yosarian. I guess he figured out that Pyro was a liability and that keeping the clever Yosarian alive increased the scum's chances of winning. The brief moments of sacrificing Pyro are short, though. When SL dies, Mac suggests that Pyrodwarf's lurking could be evidence of town. If you review his posts, Mac tries to avoid suspecting Pyro, but when he does he also tries to defend him at the same time.
But now that we've all decided that Yosarian and Pyro are scum, Mac just goes with the flow and tries to tie Joudas and me to the scumteam.

Yosarian isn't so easily tackled. He'll try to distance himself from his scummates more, but not by much. He fos'd three people all game. James, who eventually voted for, and Mac and pyro, which he never followed up on. Ignoring the early votes and lurker votes, he's voted for me and DBE all game, so he has a 0/2 vote record (0/4 if you consider he voted me twice and his early Near vote). And only two people get his vote the entire game? That's a problem. Yosarian has been playing very carefully because he's scum. He's content to sitting back and letting the town destroy itself (which was easy given Coron's odd play, DBE's weak claim, Guardian's odd choices, my bad play, ABR's erratic play, etc)

Now, ABR is difficult to pin down, considering his erratic play. He's been very defensive of Pyrodwarf all of the game. And he's been theorizing a DBE-Dasq-Yos scumteam and forcing it down our throats, with particular emphasis on DBE or Dasquian, who, upon being revealed as town, would allow him to rethink his suspicions. Given this evidence, you can see how heavily he is linked as a possible scum. However, his interactions with Yosarian and his unrelenting attacks on him make it incredibly unlikely that they are on the same team. Also, Near was pretty pro-town back before he was replaced, as has been stated before.

Joudas. Well, he didn't suspect Yosarian at all until recently. Same thing on Mac, although he started suspecting him earlier. Argued with ABR a few times. Overall, not much of a read, strange considering his participation. I get the feeling that the scum see him as easily manipulated and that's why he's still alive.

I tried to read through evilgorillaz's posts to find some information, but all his posts are garbage. They give absolutely no information. SingingLibrarian I tried to analyze. One of the last things he said was

"I still don't get it, and I'm still not willing to vote for [Dasquian]. PyroDwarf, absolutely. DBE, if we go back there, maybe. Dasquian? Barring some sort of major new information, no way."

Him, Yosarian and Dasquian were the only ones not on Dasquian's lynchwagon, and two of those three were voting for Pyrodwarf (Yosarian was still voting the watcher). SL got axed because, given how he was going to be proven right on a lot of things, he was bound to seem pro-town.

I've said my peace.

Vote: Yosarian

[Albert B. Rampage]

Okay here we go again

Vote Yosarian

[Albert B. Rampage]

(which was easy given Coron's odd play, DBE's weak claim, Guardian's odd choices, my bad play, ABR's erratic play, etc)

Well said Mike

[Claus]

Are things slowing down?

Vote Count!

Yosarian2 3 - Joudas, MBF, ABR

Not Voting:

Guardian, Macavenger, PyroDwarf, Yosarian2

With 7 players alive, it is 4 to lynch!

[Guardian]

No instant hammer.

I'd like to see what Yos2 says now, if anything .

Like I said yesterday I'm 95% sure he's scum... but waiting a day to hammer doesn't hurt.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Anything Yos says will be interpreted as WIFOM from this point on. We're better off just lynching him on the spot.

[Macavenger]

I'm willing ot hammer Yos at this point if people are done discussing, but want to put out a few things here first.

MBF, could you please produce a full case against me for me to argue against? Right now all I really see is that I was uncertain about PyroDwarf for most of the game. I can see where you get lack of interaction with him much as scummy given that we're now nearly certain he's scum, but you have to admit there hasn't been a ton to interact with. I disagreed with Guardian's case on him Day 1, started to dislike him later, and now believe he pretty much has to be scum based on a couple tells and process of elimination.

The time you cite of me defending him on the no lynch day wasn't really a defense, it was a question.

I've heard a theory elsewhere that scum offing lurkers tends to imply scum are not lurking. What do you guys here think of that idea? If true, it would tend towards PyroDwarf being town.

Realize that I asked this one time and never pushed the idea at all, and also that I asked it on the no lynch day, at a time when it was still conceivable DBE and Guardian could be scum (which looked kinda likely at the time, given how crazy scummy DBE was), so there wasn't much of an elimination case for PyroDwarf at that point.

Also look over my post about you and Joudas again. I'm not trying to link you to the scumteam there; quite the opposite. Walking through my logic today again for you: Day dawns, seven alive. I know I'm town; Guardian and ABR are basically cleared. This leaves PD, Yos, MBF, and Joudas as possible scum. Yos2 and PD float to the top of the list, leaving one of the remaining 2 as scum. Joudas asks me why I think you're scum. I think about it for a minute, realize you probably aren't, and make that post. The point of that was to show that my thoughts about why you could be scum basically sucked, and that as a result it was probably Joudas. Pulling a couple points in that post where I said that:

Actualy the more I think about it, the less I suspect him

I'd probably have to reread 56 pages to get much more detail, ugh. Basically as I really lay it out and look at it, the case for MBF being scum is pretty weak, so the scum is most likely Yos2, Pyrodwarf, Joudas.

If you've got anything else, please show me. I'd like to avoid being responsible for a town loss if at all possible.

I'll try to reread and get a case against Joudas up sometime soon, since it looks like he and I are probably going to be in the final three at this point.

[mikeburnfire]

I wasn't looking for evidence against you for you to refute it. I was looking for evidence to determine who the scum were. The lack of interaction between you and PyroDwarf, along with the way all three of you ignored each other all game, is damning. I've made up my mind and it'll be pretty difficult to change it.

[Macavenger]

Can I have a chance anyway? I mean, if I'm right and you're town, we're both going to lose. Can't really say I deserve to win this game, but still.

I didn't interact with Yos much because I didn't see anything scummy from him the first couple days. I understand his "Most Cunning Manipulator" bit a lot better now.

[mikeburnfire]

You can try. ABR is the only one I really feel is town. The other four suspects have voted for nobody except now-confirmed innocents or likely-innocents (Me, Guardian, Near).

[mikeburnfire]

Besides, Joudas doesn't look like scum with pyro. Pyro seemed to feel threatened by Joudas's allegations when he went after Guardian. He also tried to discredit Guardian's innocent results, by suggesting calling his sanity into question and allowing for possibility of a godfather.

[mikeburnfire]

The time you cite of me defending him on the no lynch day wasn't really a defense, it was a question. Realize that I asked this one time and never pushed the idea at all, and also that I asked it on the no lynch day, at a time when it was still conceivable DBE and Guardian could be scum (which looked kinda likely at the time, given how crazy scummy DBE was), so there wasn't much of an elimination case for PyroDwarf at that point.

You say it wasn't really a defense, it was a question. That's an awfully nice way to say that it was a leading defense that you can't be held accountable for. And you may have asked it on the no lynch day, but he was still under heavy suspicion. You made your 'question' post immediately after suspecting him for a few posts. You couldn't defend him suddenly because that would be suspicious. That's why you took the "Is is possible he's town based on this?" approach.

Here are your posts on Pyro:
13 - "He may be agreeable, but he presents original arguments"
19 - "Coron, why is Pyro scummiest?"
20 - "Coron, Pyro's post makes sense with the rest of his posts. Also, his lynch seems easy. I think he's town"
22 - "Pyro, a third vote on a player page 2 isn't really suspicious." <- weak
32 - "Guardian, why do you suspect Pyro? He wasn't scummy to you a few days ago"
34 - "I don't think Pyro's a good lynch. Maybe I'll pressure him in future days"
44 - "Yos and Pyro look town to me"
92 - "Pyro, I don't like your post. Explain yourself" <- kinda~weak
103 - "Pyro looks scummy to me." <- This post is the only time you really heavily lay into him, but it's also a post where you defend Yosarian a lot.
110 - I'd prefer to lynch Dasq or DBE, then pyro. <- pyro is the least of the three
112 - I'll vote either DBE or Pyro. <- Pyro comes closer to being voted
113 - I'm voting Dasquian, because DBW claimed watcher and Pyro's death gives us less leads. Also he could be newbie.
114 - "I heard a theory that would make Pyro town. What do you guys think?"

[Yosarian2]

Ignoring the early votes and lurker votes, he's voted for me and DBE all game, so he has a 0/2 vote record (0/4 if you consider he voted me twice and his early Near vote).

(shrug) If I think I've found scum, why should I vote-hop? And 0/2, if that is true (I like how you just act like we should all assume you're town) is still better then most people in this game. Considering we haven't lynched scum all game, pretty much everyone's voting record is bad, by definition...

And only two people get his vote the entire game? That's a problem.

Eh? Why's that a problem? Again, if I'm suspicicious of someone, why should I vote hop and vote for other people?

Yosarian has been playing very carefully because he's scum. He's content to sitting back and letting the town destroy itself (which was easy given Coron's odd play, DBE's weak claim, Guardian's odd choices, my bad play, ABR's erratic play, etc)

I've been pretty clearly trying to STOP the town from destroying itself all game. If people had freaking listened to me, we never would have done the dumb Coron lynch or the illogical Dasquin lynch.