Mini #597 - Swift speed: Werewolves (Game over)

[Johoohno]

Vote count

(9 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(3) Shy Guy – SleepyPanda, Korts, Jenter Brolincani

(1) No lynch – Grimmy

Not voting:

donkeyz12212, killa seven, Shy Guy, water_foul, Xanatos Roulette

Deadline:

Sunday 25 May 6:00 AM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Korts]

12 HOURS REMAINING

I may be able to check in an hour before deadline, but I'm content with my vote.

[Korts]

Wait, no. 13 hours. Damn. Got it wrong again. Fsckin' GMT -5.

[SleepyPanda]

Haha, for some reason, the forum doesn't display GMT -5 correctly. It's suppose to be 6:38 now, but it says 5:38. o_o

[Shy Guy]

I am a mason, my partner can confirm if necessary, lynching me today would be 3 town power role lynches in a row so let's not....

I'd respond substantively, but we have 12 hours, so I'm not going to be able to convince you in time. I've been busy. (shrug)

I'm going to re-read the game now and place a vote.

[Shy Guy]

post 7: sg saying he's very disappointed with clammy lynch. says he had questions for clammy to answer. says donkey's hammer was bad play, not scum play. again, hinting towards sg-donkey connection. says donkey's hammer allowed scum not to get nk in. however, seeing as how we had a doctor, i think this point is moot. sg-donkey connection. says he finds water+blonde more town for their near-end votes, again moot because we had doctor. possible buddying towards two townies? first to vote phoebus, for voting donkey. sg-donkey connection. says donkey is MOST town. solely because of hammering clammy/no night kill. again, doctor makes it invalid. sg-donkey connection.

If there is such a donkey connection, why me over donkey?

post 11: says phoebus' case against korts weak. asks if he supports grimmy wagon. why does he ask this when he suspects phoebus? if he thinks phoebus is scum, then why would he ask for his support on another wagon? perhaps trying to gain his trust so they can vote same person (as we can see later, phoebus ALSO jumps on the grimmy wagon, for the sole purpose of survival so if this was what sg was trying to do, it worked). says he re-read grimmy, doesn't think agreeing once is scum-tell. says grimmy avoids responsibility by following, which is suspicious. but in your previous post, you said followers are necessary. contradiction.

You're inaccurately describing my actions here.

Changing one's mind is a healthy, good thing, in mafia....

Yelling "CONTRADICTION" whenever someone re-reads, and re-evaluates, is a highly misguided and suspicious line of thought.

post 13: now i think this is the most suspicious post he has made, and assuming he is scum, his connection to donkey, and phoebus' consequently saying he finds donkey in the clear, he takes his vote off phoebus and places it on grimmy. phoebus saying he no longer finds donkey suspicious means that they both him and his scum partner, donkey, are in the clear. this would explain why he unvotes phoebus, then goes on to vote grimmy. as many has found this move to have been HIGHLY suspicious and his reasons for doing so to be very weak. but if assuming he is scum and donkey is his partner, it would make a very GOOD reason to vote grimmy as he has a townie on his side now.

This doesn't make any sense, and you're lying. People said they would have found it suspicious if Phoebus was scum. He wasn't.

post 14: says he cannot decide who is more suspicious, grimmy or phoebus. but since all this time, he has been asking phoebus if he supports a grimmy wagon, i don't buy it. if he even found phoebus SLIGHTLY suspicious, he wouldn't be taking the word of a scum and asking him to form a wagon on grimmy.

Again this doesn't make sense and is suspicious. I don't KNOW anyone's alignment (except my partner's). So YES, I LISTEN TO OTHER PLAYERS AND ASK THEIR OPINIONS. Saying that doing so is SUSPICIOUS is ludicrous.

WHAT? he's now trying to completely side with grimmy after urging people to vote grimmy. HUGE CONTRADICTION IN HIS PLAY.

Again, finding poeple suspicious for changing their minds is foolhardy.

i know this is somewhat of a lengthy post, but please read it thoroughly as i believe this make total sense for his actions.

I encourage everyone to read this thouroughly too, because Panda is either very misguided or trying to mislynch me.

Anyways, I'm saddened this is the case that you guys bought into that caused me to be the leading wagon. Re-read commencing.

[Shy Guy]

Grimmy - could be scum. solid lurking.
water_foul - probably not scum.
Shy Guy - mason.
Jenter Brolincani - likely scum. votes very opportunistically. "Me too" on all major bandwagons, including mine right now.
killa seven - could be scum, lurker.
donkeyz12212 - probably not scum, unless he is scum and both partners didn't read the rules.
Korts - probably town.
Xanatos Roulette - lurker. opportunistic. easily scum.
SleepyPanda - contrived case on me. could just be very misguided.

I'd be willing to lynch any of Jenter, Xanatos, Sleepy, or Grimmy.

I think Jenter is the best bet, reading over this posts. If I had to bet, Jenter, Xanatos, Sleepy, as the scum, but time will tell.

vote: Jenter Brolincani

I'll check in in a few hours to see if there is a non Jenter wagon I need to vote for, but I think Jenter's the best bet for today.

[killa seven]

so shy guy ur claimin mason?

[Shy Guy]

Yes...

Checking in and NOT voting someone with less than 12 hours to deadline is suspicious and bad play, killa.

[SleepyPanda]

You still haven't answered most of the questions I have.

I am a mason, my partner can confirm if necessary, lynching me today would be 3 town power role lynches in a row so let's not....

You're saying your partner can prove your mason? I still don't know the roles, but reading on the wiki, it says masons can not reveal each other. How convenient. So then actually he can't prove anything at all. Or am I mistaken? Can he claim and prove that you're innocent? If so, then why won't he, seeing as how you're the leading lynch today. Or better yet, why don't you reveal who he is and see what he says.

What are your basis for finding donkey innocent?

Because he hammered and there was no night kill, right? Phoebus was doctor.

Are you saying there is no chance for him to have guarded the right person?

Look at your post after Phoebus was lynched:

As I said yesterday, I thought Phoebus was less likely to be scum than Grimmy; I don't really think Grimmy is that likely to be scum.

You first voted Grimmy. Then here, you changed your mind immediately after the lynch and said he's not likely to be scum. But what's this now? You've changed your mind and consider him to possibly be scum now?

What makes Grimmy suspicious? Why did you think he was innocent when Phoebus was lynched?

Onto Korts:

Phoebus seems to be stretching on korts, reading back over I find korts more town-like than I had previously.

am suspicious of Phoebus. I think he was stretching to make a case on korts

Now this was your original position on Korts. You found Phoebus' case weak, yes?

Now this is what you ask Phoebus,

2) What did I miss about korts? Why is korts suspicious?

And his response,

2) I am not you. I cannot tell what you perceive. I cannot say. Korts is suspicious because of the way he's been behaving. My perception. Gut feeling. Cannot elaborate.

Then after his lynch,

I find Korts fairly suspicious, both for his ill founded reasons for finding me suspicious just now, and his play as a whole; in part I unvoted Phoebus because I agreed with him about Korts.

So what part of Phoebus' argument did you agree with to make you think Korts was suspicious? His gut feeling? Oh yeah, I'm convinced too. How did I miss that. But once again, you've changed your mind. You think Korts is innocent now.

Why did you think Korts was innocent after Phoebus was lynched? What changed to make you think he's innocent now?

All that I've seen Korts do since then was vote you. Getting nervous are you?

If there is such a donkey connection, why me over donkey?

Because you're more obvious than him. I haven't done a thorough read through on him yet.

SleepyPanda wrote:
post 13: now i think this is the most suspicious post he has made, and assuming he is scum, his connection to donkey, and phoebus' consequently saying he finds donkey in the clear, he takes his vote off phoebus and places it on grimmy. phoebus saying he no longer finds donkey suspicious means that they both him and his scum partner, donkey, are in the clear. this would explain why he unvotes phoebus, then goes on to vote grimmy. as many has found this move to have been HIGHLY suspicious and his reasons for doing so to be very weak. but if assuming he is scum and donkey is his partner, it would make a very GOOD reason to vote grimmy as he has a townie on his side now.
This doesn't make any sense, and you're lying. People said they would have found it suspicious if Phoebus was scum. He wasn't.

What am I lying about? Yes, you would've been suspicious if Phoebus was guilty. So you're saying since you moved your vote to Grimmy, you're cleared?

Yeah, changing your mind this much is healthy for town. You never gave reasons for constantly going back and forth on your stand on who you thought to be scum or town, just stating that you think he is. Reasons please.

[SleepyPanda]

I also bolded questions for you to answer.

[SleepyPanda]

The first question on Korts was suppose to be, why did you think Korts was suspicious after Phoebus was lynched?

You change your mind so much I can't even keep track anymore.

[SleepyPanda]

Also, out of the 9 people still alive, you find 5 suspicious, 4 you're willing to lynch? That's more than half the people. I don't think this town has that many werewolves.

[SleepyPanda]

Lalala~

Since you're probably still trying to make up answers that sound believable, I have some more for you. Yay!

What happened with your close examination of Jenter, killa, and Xanatos? I see nothing more than your short, few word sentences. Is that all you came up with? That list looks like you didn't look that in-depth on the people you said you would.

Why are you voting Jenter now? Jenter hasn't just been agreeing with wagons, he actually gave reasons for voting clammy AND phoebus. But you on the other hand, haven't. No real reasons as I can see. This is pretty much all you've done thus far, "Him. Suspici...wait, innocent, no suspicious. I vote him." By your own reasoning, you should be voting YOURSELF.

Why are you willing to lynch 4 people? Two of them MUST be innocent. So you're willing to lynch them as well?

I think why you're so hesitant to name your mason partner is because you're scum and you either name a townie, who will know you're lying, or you name your partner, who we'll kill after you come up positive as scum.

Sorry again for all these posts in a row. I suck, I know.

[donkeyz12212]

Wow!

I did not realize that votes were changing that quickly and my goodness at the accusations that are flying around.

SleepyPanda is accusing ShyGuy of being partners with myself because he defended me?

says donkey is MOST town. solely because of hammering clammy/no night kill. again, doctor makes it invalid. sg-donkey connection.

Mr. Blonde already pointed it out and Shy Guy responded in his earlier posts. You just simply reiterrated what has already been known.

I don't find Shy Guy suspicious at all but of course people think we are linked. I just don't see that connection.

vote: Jenter Brolincani

His posts are lackluster and I think he just follows more than anything else. He was one of the lead on the clammy bandwagon and I just think something's up with him.

[SleepyPanda]

Can't say I am surprised.

So you don't find Shy Guy's inability to make up his mind on who is town or scum not even a tad suspicious?

How does Jenter leading clammy wagon make any difference at all? His reasons were exactly the same as your reason for hammering clammy.

His posts are lackluster and I think he just follows more than anything else.

Shy Guy already pointed this out. You're just simply reiterating what is already known.

FOS donkey

[Shy Guy]

You still haven't answered most of the questions I have.

I am a mason, my partner can confirm if necessary, lynching me today would be 3 town power role lynches in a row so let's not....

You're saying your partner can prove your mason? I still don't know the roles, but reading on the wiki, it says masons can not reveal each other. How convenient. So then actually he can't prove anything at all. Or am I mistaken? Can he claim and prove that you're innocent? If so, then why won't he, seeing as how you're the leading lynch today. Or better yet, why don't you reveal who he is and see what he says.

Yes, you are mistaken. I have a PM outstanding to my mason.

Maybe he hasn't showed up because I checked the thread 3 hours ago, and only you and donkey have posted since then (neither of you is my mason partner).

How about you NOT lynch a power role for the third consecutive day Panda -- or do you want to?

Most of your cases against me are fallacious, and I cannot determine if you are terribly confused or if you are trying to mislynch me and then say "oh MY goodness, how did that HAPPEN??? Shy Guy was so SUSPICIOUS!" But I really have not been objectively.

My mason, once he gets the PM, can come and defend me, and clear me.

It is water_foul. I voted Winter! in the first post to prove this. Winter! left the game because he thought my distancing with him was silly.

For proof water_foul is my partner: he voted Grimmy day 2 because I sent a PM to him that asked him to. That's why he suddenly "lost his town read on Phoebus", and when I changed my mind and voted Grimmy, so did he.

What are your basis for finding donkey innocent?

Because he hammered and there was no night kill, right? Phoebus was doctor.

Are you saying there is no chance for him to have guarded the right person?

Yes. No, I'm not, it would be amazingly incompetent of you to think I am saying that. What I AM saying is that it is FAR MORE LIKELY that the scum missed sending in a kill. Based on the speed of the lynch, I think the scum were caught unawares, something FAR MORE LIKELY than a doctor guessing which person the mafia decided to target.

Look at your post after Phoebus was lynched:

As I said yesterday, I thought Phoebus was less likely to be scum than Grimmy; I don't really think Grimmy is that likely to be scum.

You first voted Grimmy. Then here, you changed your mind immediately after the lynch and said he's not likely to be scum. But what's this now? You've changed your mind and consider him to possibly be scum now?

What makes Grimmy suspicious? Why did you think he was innocent when Phoebus was lynched?

Grimmy was only more suspicious than Phoebus. Comparatively, he was not that suspicious, just more suspicious than Phoebus.

Why are you boldings things?

Is it just to make it appear as if I haven't already answered these questions? Because I have. Panda, I think you are scum, but if you are town, you are doing your damndedest to lose us the game.

Really, I can't see you doing this as town.

If I am lynched, lynch Jenter, then Panda, consecutively. Don't listen to whatever pathetic excuses they make for their actions.

Onto Korts:

Phoebus seems to be stretching on korts, reading back over I find korts more town-like than I had previously.

am suspicious of Phoebus. I think he was stretching to make a case on korts

Now this was your original position on Korts. You found Phoebus' case weak, yes?

Now this is what you ask Phoebus,

2) What did I miss about korts? Why is korts suspicious?

And his response,

2) I am not you. I cannot tell what you perceive. I cannot say. Korts is suspicious because of the way he's been behaving. My perception. Gut feeling. Cannot elaborate.

Then after his lynch,

I find Korts fairly suspicious, both for his ill founded reasons for finding me suspicious just now, and his play as a whole; in part I unvoted Phoebus because I agreed with him about Korts.

So what part of Phoebus' argument did you agree with to make you think Korts was suspicious? His gut feeling? Oh yeah, I'm convinced too. How did I miss that. But once again, you've changed your mind. You think Korts is innocent now.

Why did you think Korts was innocent after Phoebus was lynched? What changed to make you think he's innocent now?

All that I've seen Korts do since then was vote you. Getting nervous are you?

This is all rhetoric and nothing substantive.

If there is such a donkey connection, why me over donkey?

Because you're more obvious than him. I haven't done a thorough read through on him yet.

Because I was conveniently absent, more like?

SleepyPanda wrote:
post 13: now i think this is the most suspicious post he has made, and assuming he is scum, his connection to donkey, and phoebus' consequently saying he finds donkey in the clear, he takes his vote off phoebus and places it on grimmy. phoebus saying he no longer finds donkey suspicious means that they both him and his scum partner, donkey, are in the clear. this would explain why he unvotes phoebus, then goes on to vote grimmy. as many has found this move to have been HIGHLY suspicious and his reasons for doing so to be very weak. but if assuming he is scum and donkey is his partner, it would make a very GOOD reason to vote grimmy as he has a townie on his side now.
This doesn't make any sense, and you're lying. People said they would have found it suspicious if Phoebus was scum. He wasn't.

What am I lying about? Yes, you would've been suspicious if Phoebus was guilty. So you're saying since you moved your vote to Grimmy, you're cleared?

No, I'm saying that Korts 'case' on me for moving my vote to Grimmy is invalid.

Yeah, changing your mind this much is healthy for town. You never gave reasons for constantly going back and forth on your stand on who you thought to be scum or town, just stating that you think he is. Reasons please.

I've already answered most of your questions that you posed here.

The rest of your posts seem just like more rhetoric.

Anyone reading the thread: you must vote Jenter, to prevent my lynch. I am yet another conformable power role, and I would be confirmed if water_foul just checked in and said I was. He is my mason partner.

If I am unfortunately lynched, lynch Jenter, then Panda. Jenter I've explained why he is scum, I am 99% sure his opportunism is scum motivated, and that he should be lynched.

If Panda does not come and unvote me, do not listen to his lies about how he was unconvinced or doesn't believe me about how masons work. water_foul can confirm me if we just give him time.

Again,

vote: Jenter Brolincani

[Shy Guy]

killa seven may easily round out the scum group -- his checking the thread but not voting anyone earlier with deadline so close is suspect. First Jenter, then Panda, though.

[Shy Guy]

I'll be damned if I let Panda-scum win this because he yelled louder.

If he does not show up and unvote, he almost surely is scum.

Some of his arguments against me, like "how I have 5 suspects, and there probably aren't that many werewolves" are just ludicrous.

It makes sense to have more suspects than there are scum. I don't know for a fact who the scum are... obviously. Throwing a wide net and seeing how people respond is good scum-hunting, not suspicious activity.

Again, Jenter and Panda almost surely scum, possibly with killa seven or Xanatos rounding out the group. Panda could *possibly* save himself in my eyes if he came and vote Jenter. Jenter, on the other hand, is almost definitely scum.

[Shy Guy]

Well, no one's checked in, so apparently we're lynching a confirmable power role for the third day in a row.

Likely this will be a loss because of town inactivity, sigh. I think I won't join 3 day deadline games ever again. I enjoy a fast game, but not one so fast that power rolls don't get to claim and not be lynched. 3 days, I think, has been shown to be too fast because of this game. A week might be fun. 3 days just isn't enough time, unless there are more strict activity requirements. Some people are posting once every 3/4 days, and with 3 day deadlines that just ruins the game...

Back to analysis:
I cannot emphasize enough: if you don't lynch Jenter tomorrow, you are very, very, very foolish. He is almost surely scum.

Panda is also likely scum.

No matter how much he tries to convince you to the contrary, his arguments against me were ludicrous. His checking in to respond to my claim, but NOT checking in to vote Jenter is highly suspicious.

water_foul, and donkeyz should NOT be lynched. Jenter and Panda should.

I have no solid idea who the would-be third scum is. Could be killa seven, no good reasons for checking in and not voting. Could be Xanatos, lurking. Could be Korts -- I find it hard to believe

anyone

bought into Panda's case. I doubt all three scum decided to wagon me, though, so if I am right about Jenter and Xanatos, Korts is mostly clear.

Good luck guys... you'll need it.

Goodnight.

[SleepyPanda]

This is all rhetoric and nothing substantive.

You are still avoiding most of the questions I have asked, mainly directing questions back to me, or just determining by yourself that they are not substantial and not answer them completely.

Because I was conveniently absent, more like?

You weren't more absent than donkey. You have posted more consistently than him the entire game.

I've already answered most of your questions that you posed here.

Sorry, still don't see them.

I'll be damned if I let Panda-scum

I'm not unvoting you because I don't feel like you are telling the truth. You constantly calling me scum for no reason besides the basis of accusing you with points that you haven't actually refuted is suspicious in itself. OMGUS much?

Well, no one's checked in, so apparently we're lynching a confirmable power role for the third day in a row.

Likely this will be a loss because of town inactivity, sigh. I think I won't join 3 day deadline games ever again. I enjoy a fast game, but not one so fast that power rolls don't get to claim and not be lynched. 3 days, I think, has been shown to be too fast because of this game. A week might be fun. 3 days just isn't enough time, unless there are more strict activity requirements. Some people are posting once every 3/4 days, and with 3 day deadlines that just ruins the game...

Seems like you're just trying to buy the last votes now. Constantly mentioning over and over you're a power role doesn't really convince me.

I also still like how you're completely convinced that donkey is cleared regardless of the fact that we had a doctor.

Did either clammy or Phoebus fight this much even though they were power roles? Tracker and doctor seem a whole lot more useful than a mason. Obvious scum's last desperate plea.

For the people who haven't voted, if you are going to, the case against Shy Guy is stronger than the case against Jenter, no matter how you look at it.

[Shy Guy]

You are conveniently IGNORING how if I am scum, water_foul won't CONFIRM me whenever he gets to check in.

If you are town, and you don't unvote me and vote Jenter, you are incompetent and costing us the game.

Lynching confirmable power roles is something only scum or idiots do.

If you are somehow town, and you can't get it through your thick skull that voting Jenter is the right play, you are going to get more than an earful about if from me after the game.

Your not voting Jenter *means that you are scum*.

WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR CASE AND MY PLAY, I AM CONFIRMABLE TOWN. IF water_foul FAILS TO CONFIRM ME TOMORROW, LYNCH ME THEN, AS I'D BE A LIAR. LACKING THAT, I MUST BE TELLING THE TRUTH, AND LYNCHING ME IS EITHER SCUM PLAY, OR UNBRIDLED IDIOCY THAT SHOULD BE TREATED AS SCUM PLAY.

Again, goodnight.

[SleepyPanda]

Whether or not water claims that he is your partner, we do not know his alignment either. How do we know that water is not your scum partner as well?

IT CONFIRMS NOTHING.

That's why I think you claiming to be mason is beneficial as scum; hard to confirm and that it's a power role, so people are less likely to lynch you.

Still not changing my vote.

[Shy Guy]

Did either clammy or Phoebus fight this much even though they were power roles? Tracker and doctor seem a whole lot more useful than a mason. Obvious scum's last desperate plea.

Gah. I am literally shaking with frustration at the possibility that you are this wrong, and town.

Everyone was disappointed with Phoebus and clammy in that they didn't get to claim. Power roles claiming and preventing their being lynched is PRO-TOWN. It has nothing to do with how useful the roles are, and everything to do with that my role is 100% provable if we give water_foul more than 6 hours in which to come and confirm me.

I am doing everything right in claiming and calling the case bad.

You are doing everything wrong by continuing to vote me and pressing the case.

Again, you are either scum, or town whose play is completely indicative of being scum. If you are not an alternate account, and this is one of your first games of mafia... don't worry about it, you just have much to learn... and sorry for my frustration.

From your use of bbcode, though, it seems like you are an experienced player. If that is the case, as it seems to me... then yeah, I'm sorely disappointed, and am even more sure that you are scum.

[Shy Guy]

Whether or not water claims that he is your partner, we do not know his alignment either. How do we know that water is not your scum partner as well?

IT CONFIRMS NOTHING.

It confirms that either water is my scum partner, or is my mason partner.

If you'd like I can quote all the communication I've had with him and Winter?