Dichotomafia- Games Over

[Fuldu]

the PeaceBringer day one train starts yet again...I am far from impressed

I don't follow the crowd, I play the way I play. If "mafiescum" players try and force everyone to play the same way by pushing to lynch day one of folks they don't like the play style then that is sad.

PB, I would think you would have realized by now that the reason you get bandwagoned in every game you play is because your style of play looks scummy. We're not trying to force you to play "our" way; there isn't one style of play that individuals here use. But, if you continue to play your style of game, you're going to continue to get lynched.

Imagine for a moment that I began every game (regardless of my role) by claiming cop and fingering a randomly chosen player as guilty. I might get away with it on Day One, but unless I was lucky and hit scum, I'd get lynched on Day Two. Over time, as people became accustomed to my style of play, I might get lynched right off on Day One, or else people would start ignoring me. That's where you're headed.

Your play style (and not just in this game) screams "I don't care who we lynch, just kill somebody!" To many people on this site, that looks scummy, so you're getting lynched. Surely you can see why that might appear a scummy attitude to take. Eventually people might get used to it, but what that's going to mean is that townies will stop paying attention to you altogether and scum will try to use you to get other innocents lynched. That isn't a strategy designed to help town win, and I would think you would want to change a play style with those sorts of results.

This, of course, is all premised on the idea that you are who you say you are. As for your claim, my vote stays where it is. Roleblocker is a common enough scum claim, especially as it means someone with a useful role has to come out in order to contradict it. And the odds are in your favor that Uraj45 can't contradict it.

[Wacky]

Oh yay, another IS!

Do we always lynch IS on day 1? I'd prefer we did, but that wouldn't be a good play.
So,

Unvote: MMCL

,

Vote: NanooktheWolf

.

Though come to think of it, those who just agreed with him seem more suspicious.

[MMCL]

Unvote: Nanook

I was all ready to jump on the PB bandwagon - and then Tally does something suspicious in my eyes... she votes Nanook because he votes PB and suggests that PB is 'lynch-bait'...

Tally - if PB is 'bait' (to use your term, and one which I have never heard either), it is his own fault. I have seen countless games, where people have suggested his posting style makes him look scummy. In every single game I have seen with PB, he has ended up having to defend his posting style. Does that make him scum? NO. But does it mean that Nanook is right to be suspicious? Yes, in my eyes, anyway.

I don't want to turn this into an analysis of PB's posting style - but jumping votes like he has, would suggest he is following the bandwagon with most steam to me. All-in-all, we need to end this day to get information.

As a result - I am going with what I know - there is a good chance Tally is scum (my information) and the vote of Nanook (jumping on PBs and my votes in the third position) suggest further scumminess to me - especially with the accusation that Nanook is using PB as 'bait'.
As I promised - I said I would unvote Tally and let her play and judge her by her actions -

Vote: Talitha

. Of course, this could change given Uraj's comments - but for now, I am happy

[ralphmerridew]

MMCL, you didn't answer my question. Which of these is the case:

a) Your information marks Talitha as definitely being scum, but your information could be wrong (i.e., you are a cop, but you could be insane).

b) It is possible that Talitha is innocent but your information is correct (i.e., you are a tracker who followed Talitha to tss).

Also, is your information binary (you get one of two results, guilty / innocent) or not?

[Flying Dutchman]

PeaceBringer, could you at least tell us who you blocked? It can confirm your role, and won't harm anyone......

[ralphmerridew]

To FD:

But fair enough once again you push me to claim my Role-

I am a roleblocker---I obviously do not know for fact wether the person I blocked or not is scum. I had hoped time to figure it out but alas no such luck.

The person I blocked was Uraj45

- I mentioned him once when he jumped on Talitha but actually hope to just mull around with my vote and figure it out. But know once again a diversion toward me worked and you out a role player.... HAPPY?

(Bolding mine, all else PB's.)

[Flying Dutchman]

You didn't bold a thing, but I see what you mean.

[MMCL]

B cannot be correct ralph... I am not saying if A is...

[PeaceBringer]

Your play style (and not just in this game) screams "I don't care who we lynch, just kill somebody!" To many people on this site, that looks scummy, so you're getting lynched. Surely you can see why that might appear a scummy attitude to take. Eventually people might get used to it, but what that's going to mean is that townies will stop paying attention to you altogether and scum will try to use you to get other innocents lynched. That isn't a strategy designed to help town win, and I would think you would want to change a play style with those sorts of results.

That is a key misunderstanding of how I play. I use votes as a tool. To cast a vote on someone doesn't mean that you are looking to get that person lynched. There are many reasons to caste a vote. When I shift a vote on day one for me it is about gathering information and reactions. When I don't shift a vote day one I am still watching.

[Fuldu]

I didn't misunderstand how you play, PB; I'm suggesting that you misunderstand how how you play

looks

. I'm not saying that there aren't good reasons for voting someone, even if you don't intend to get them lynched. But that can't apply to a situation in which others are also voting the same person and you just say "I'll play along," as with your vote on Talitha. Furthermore, when you do it three to four times in a single day, it looks like you're just itching to lynch somebody, regardless of whether that's the case or not. I'm merely suggesting that you'll likely get attacked less frequently on Day One if you dial back the volume on your strategy some. I'd also point out that you get better reactions from people when you put more thought into a stated reason to vote for them than "as good a target as any."

[Uraj45]

unvote Talitha

I can confirm that I was roleblocked last night. Just for the purposes of anylyzing though, I'm going to include PB in my following thoughts.
Now this is whole thing is probably going to sound odd but:
I can see the logic in PB's actions. Since town mostly dont have any solid information on someone, they don't really know for sure who to vote for. A vote expresses who you are currently most suspicious of based on what little you have. It's better to switch around then to sit constantly on one person. The experienced players have adopted this strategy at times.
At the same time, I can see the logic in Nanook's vote on PB. Switching often can be an issue of not caring rather than a process of trying to reasess thoughts. In this case it could indicate scuminess.
Also at the same time, I can see the logic for Talitha to vote for Nanook. Mafia uses whatever momentum they can get, and if they can find "lynch-bait" from someone who just pops right out of the crowd, it's a wise tactic for them to go for it. Once the suggestion is there, it get other people to think "hmmm. . .that is odd. . .", and a mountain is made out of a molehill.
Finally, I can see the logic in MMCL voting for Talitha. Of course, if you find an action scummy, you should have a right to vote for it and the term lynch-bait, does indicate there are actions that look scummy.
So i can see the logic, but of course scum allways wants you to think they're being logical. But if I you look at it from the other perspective, and loog for motive:
I cannot find any motive whatsoever in PB's actions. It's not likely to get people lynched very effectively at all. The votes seem genuine to me. Talitha's motives . . .i cant particularly see them leaning hugely in either direction. And MMCL is really sticking his neck out for little gain if he's scum.
But Nanook. Nanook's bandwagon started, and worked. It was extremely effective at getting at a townie. The scum-bait theory is sound and if Nanook is scum, it makes a wise move for him.
Furthermore, back to logic, Nanook said that he was well aware of PB's style. And that moves into my core belief. If someone plays consistently a prticular way, whether scum or not, how can this be an indication of scuminess? It can't. And i dont understand why a protown nanook would think that.

Vote: Nanook

[willows_weep]

:cries:
If no one is going to change can this all just be what it is? hip with the moot point?

Everyones making valid points, no one is going to back off, no one sees reason to...so no headway is going to be made right?
Its a personal choice PB has made and PB has experienced the consequences good and bad. Has had people giving their personal viewpoints on it, and so then has been given constructive feedback.

PB has also given PBs personal viewpoint , explained stuff, and now everyone has feedback regardless of them wanting it or not.

This doesn't look changeable (on either side in any degree), so uhm...yea this is old.

Is there like a thread in the GD for where players can comment on other players?
Polite stuff of course.

[Save The Dragons]

unvote PB

Just because someone is supposedly "lynch-bait" does not make them immune to lynch.

After Zelda mafia, I got a strong dose of how PB plays. His arrogence ticks me off, that's no secret. Just because he plays a certain way and now an 'easy target' doesn't mean people are going to come after him because of that.

But if Uraj was roleblocked, then I'll accept it now.

unvote: lulu, vote: nanook

- for going after the lynch bait, rather than hunting scum.

However, I will

Fos: Talitha

for that statement; how do you know the "lynch bait" aren't scum?

To me MMCL still is looking suspicious for not giving us a straight answer. I'm thinking it's possible he's keeping information hidden so he can be protected if we were to lynch tally and she turns up innocent.

But if MMCL really is a cop, and he has some information on Tally, maybe we should lynch her...I dunno.

Anyway, I'm considering voting Nanook, but I'm not 100% his actions were scummy.

And sorry for bringing up old stuff it's the weekend and I can think more.

[Fuldu]

Well, given Uraj's confirmation of PB's role-block, I'll

unvote: PeaceBringer

. That also neatly dulls my other suspicion, on Uraj45, because I can't think of any reason for scum to do anything but to say he can't confirm anything based on his role (unless they're working together, and it's too early for a gambit like that). My biggest concern at this stage is with lulu muumuu's claim that she knew what Talitha was trying to claim, something Talitha has denied. Somebody else said it, too, but I can't find their post.

[MMCL]

That would be me...Fuldu.

[Fishbulb]

I'm not going to get involved in another PeaceBringer discussion. I've said it too many times before, so there's no use in going through that again.

Vote: Talitha

Like I said before, it's the best lead we got. It's Day 1, and no one has came forth with any better information. My only reservation is MMCL's play. He has thoroughly confused me all game. But I am pretty sure that he is indeed innocent. I can't imagine scum coming up with a plan like that, it would be suicidal. He has set himself up to be the main topic of conversation every day until he is dead.

[Talitha]

After much thought I've decided that under no circumstances will I claim. So if you're voting for me, consider it a vote to lynch. (Make of that what you will, especially you, MMCL).

I will Fos: Talitha for that statement; how do you know the "lynch bait" aren't scum?

I don't know that PB isn't scum. I suspect he's not scum, (and it appears that I'm probably right). I know

for a fact

that he's lynch bait*

And I still don't think that Nanook's suspicion of PB is genuine. I could be wrong, but that's my position.

(*It's not really relevant whether you've heard of the term "lynch bait" or not. It's possible that Yaw and I made it up when chatting. But you all should recognise the style of play that it describes.)

[Flying Dutchman]

Unvote PeaceBringer

Not sure whether to vote Talitha or Nanook.

[Mgm]

PeaceBringer, could you at least tell us who you blocked? It can confirm your role, and won't harm anyone......

No, it just outs an important role.

FOS: FD

With all the recent changes, could we get a vote count please?

[silgado106]

MGM, PB

did

tell us who he blocked, and that person confirmed it.

I also don't know if I should put a vote on Nanook or Talitha. Talitha does seem to have more going against her, with MMCL's "info" and all, but she seems so darn sure about her role being important. I think I might just be too gullible. On the other hand, Nanook took PB's style to throw it against him, which I did agree with, but now he has turned out to be innocent. I think Nanook might have just being trying to look for scum, and placed his suspicions on the person he found most suspicious (well duh). So I am going to wait for a bit before I place any votes I think.

[Mgm]

FD said giving that information wouldn't hurt anyone, but doesn't admitting to being blocked say: "Kill me, I have a night choice." to the mafia?

It could be in PB's best interest to reveal, but FD was wrong in saying it wouldn't hurt anyone. It caused unneccesary outing of part of Uraj's role. That's why I'm FOSsing him.

[Flying Dutchman]

There are a lot of games where you get to know that you're blocked even if you have no night choice, and there are a lot of night choices that are not important or sometimes even harmful to the town, I fail to see your point.

[Mgm]

Yes, but you just forgot to mention that Uraj might have an important role. That's a valid option, just like any other.

[Norinel]

I'll make a vote count somewhere near the top of the page one of these days!

Vote Count:

NanookTheWolf- 4 (PeaceBringer, Talitha, Wacky, Uraj45)
Talitha- 2 (MMCL, Fishbulb)
PeaceBringer- 1 (NanookTheWolf)
lulu muumuu- 1 (willows_weep)

Not voting (7) - Flying Dutchman, Fuldu, lulu muumuu, Mgm, ralphmerridew, Save The Dragons, Silgado106

8 to lynch.

(FD wasn't voting for PeaceBringer, but I took his vote off Mgm anyway).

[Save The Dragons]

The more I think about it, the more I think Talitha is scum.

Because had PB been scum, we would be praising Nanook. It kind of seems to me that people are punishing him because PB is innocent.

Vote Tally