Mini 588: Achewood Mafia - Game Over!

[OG Smokedank]

support for a "good name" theory is that alabaska had a fakeclaim that wasnt in the game, he could have gotten lucky guessing but i doubt it

Do you realize that he actually claimed Cipher's (scum) role?

oh what.

well so much for that theory

[lulu muumuu]

okay... check this out guys-- now if you go back and read, when OG claimed "cop" able to see if someone drinks or not, MAFIA scrambled to say they drink or don't drink. many townspeople (or at least who i am assuming are townspeople) say it's mentioned (but offhandedly to the point where they didn't think it was important) or not even mentioned at all.

why would there be a flavor cop around whose results can't accurately indicate alignment?
also:

vote alabaska j

guess who doesnt drink!

vote OG Smokedank

because the real cop would have been roleblocked! And I strongly believe the mafia has a roleblocker if we have a cop (balance reasons). If anyone can give information that can refute my theory, I will immediately recede my vote, but until then, nice fakeclaim, buddy!

hahaha listen to this scum telling us what scum should have or would have done.

Actually, it is the only reason I can think of why a "Cop" would post a guilty result on a townie. Unless you are dumb enough to be roleblocked and post anyway…

hmmmm mafia certainly DID have a roleblocker (alabaska)!
and i think it's pretty obvious that alabaska was trying to tell us who he tried to roleblock.
show of hands: who else thinks alabaska tried to role block OG N1?
*raises hand*

by that logic, does that mean that OG is our SK and that's why we had only one kill that night?

vote: OG Smokedank

[Musher333]

okay... check this out guys-- now if you go back and read, when OG claimed "cop" able to see if someone drinks or not, MAFIA scrambled to say they drink or don't drink. many townspeople (or at least who i am assuming are townspeople) say it's mentioned (but offhandedly to the point where they didn't think it was important) or not even mentioned at all.

why would there be a flavor cop around whose results can't accurately indicate alignment?
also:

vote alabaska j

guess who doesnt drink!

vote OG Smokedank

because the real cop would have been roleblocked! And I strongly believe the mafia has a roleblocker if we have a cop (balance reasons). If anyone can give information that can refute my theory, I will immediately recede my vote, but until then, nice fakeclaim, buddy!

hahaha listen to this scum telling us what scum should have or would have done.

Actually, it is the only reason I can think of why a "Cop" would post a guilty result on a townie. Unless you are dumb enough to be roleblocked and post anyway…

hmmmm mafia certainly DID have a roleblocker (alabaska)!
and i think it's pretty obvious that alabaska was trying to tell us who he tried to roleblock.
show of hands: who else thinks alabaska tried to role block OG N1?
*raises hand*

by that logic, does that mean that OG is our SK and that's why we had only one kill that night?

vote: OG Smokedank

Its plausible i suppose but at the same time if we have a doctor they could have protected her and the SK was stupid enough to try and kill the person who was most likely to be protected due to a unchallenged claim.

[lulu muumuu]

Its plausible i suppose but at the same time if we have a doctor they could have protected her and the SK was stupid enough to try and kill the person who was most likely to be protected due to a unchallenged claim.

who do you think that protected person was? and so far we have no claimed doc. unless emeril (thinktank) or teodor (greasy spot) is our doc, as everyone else has claimed vanilla townie.

i still think alabaska was trying to tell us he'd blocked OG. alabaska had a good reason to want to try and block OG, and i feel it's a lot less likely OG and the doc targeted the same person.

[Musher333]

Its plausible i suppose but at the same time if we have a doctor they could have protected her and the SK was stupid enough to try and kill the person who was most likely to be protected due to a unchallenged claim.

who do you think that protected person was? and so far we have no claimed doc. unless emeril (thinktank) or teodor (greasy spot) is our doc, as everyone else has claimed vanilla townie.

i still think alabaska was trying to tell us he'd blocked OG. alabaska had a good reason to want to try and block OG, and i feel it's a lot less likely OG and the doc targeted the same person.

No i mean its possible that OG is a cop-like person and the doctor protected her, the SK'er then tried to kill her (which to me is stupid as she is the obvious person to protect).

Either of these 2 things could be true though or neither, we won't know.

[mustafa15]

The doctor would be foolish to claim right now, because then he/she would be killed by the mafia while protecting OG.

Would it be possible that both the sk and the mafia both tried to kill the same person the first night? Or would they like, cancel eachother out or something? I think that this is pretty likely because PBuG was a pretty logical choice to kill.

I seriously doubt that OG is scum becuase nobody has counter-claimed the role of Cornelius and Cornelius wouldn't be scum.

[thinktank]

Considering that we know now that Dragons was actually a cop and wasn't trying to counterclaim, that could potentially put Og's claim at risk because its usually unlikely that there are two cops in a single game without good reasoning. That being said, if indeed OG is Sk, then it is plausible that Alabaska roleblocked OG, as he was leaning on that pretty heavily last day.

Chances are that scum didn't question Dragon's claim yesterday because they pretty much knew it to be confirmed, so I guess I'll have to do a re-read of last day and try to find these signals.

In the meanwhile, calling people out on craptastic logic doesn't make you scum. I don't know who any of these characters are as I'm not even remotely familiar with the flavour of this game, other than what I've picked up in this game. All I know is, my name is Emiril, my role says I'm a townie. Not a vanilla townie as some others have claimed and apparently my character drinks, smokes and has job trashspotting? . How about making assertions on who is scum based on factual evidence, rather than self deemed probabilities which are meaningless.

[mustafa15]

In the meanwhile, calling people out on craptastic logic doesn't make you scum. I don't know who any of these characters are as I'm not even remotely familiar with the flavour of this game, other than what I've picked up in this game. All I know is, my name is Emiril, my role says I'm a townie. Not a vanilla townie as some others have claimed and apparently my character drinks, smokes and has job trashspotting? . How about making assertions on who is scum based on factual evidence, rather than self deemed probabilities which are meaningless.

Have you even read our arguments? Our evidence is about as factual as it gets.

FACT #1: Roast Beef is a very important character in Achewood

FACT #2: There are some characters in the game (Todd, possibly Emiril,O possible Phillippe's mom, possibly Tina) that are far far less important that Roast Beef

FACT #3: Our mod is familiar with achewood

CONCLUSION #1: Roast Beef must be a character in the game.

FACT #4: Musher333 has claimed Roast Beef

FACT #5: Everybody else has claimed, and nobody else has claimed Roast Beef

CONCLUSION #2: Musher333=Roast Beef

FACT #6: Roast Beef is a protagonist.

CONCLUSION #3: Musher333 is probably innocent

(Repeat for lulu muumuu, Greasy Spot, and OG Smokedank)

FACT #7: Emeril is not a main character

FACT #7a: He appears in the comic once or twice a year

CONCLUSION #4: He is not necessarily in the game, although it is possible

CONCLUSION #5: Emeril would be a logical scum-claim

DISCLAIMER: It is possible that Emeril is in fact in the game, but it is less likely that Emeril would be in the game than any of the following (Roast Beef, Cornelius, Molly, Teodor, Phillippe, Pat, Todd, Lie Bot, Chris Onstead,

Nice Pete, Lyle

)

FACT #8: Two people died last night

CONCLUSION #6: We have two scum groups

FACT #9: There is a serial killer in the comic achewood, Nice Pete

CONCLUSION #7: There is a serial killer in the game as well as the mafia group

FACT #10: Lyle is a far more important character than Emeril

CONCLUSION #8: If Emeril is in the game, Lyle is in the game

FACT #11: Lyle is an asshole, at least as much of an asshole as Todd was

FACT #12: We have killed goons, but no godfather

CONCLUSION #9: Lyle is the mafia godfather

(Repeating for populartajo and mustafa)

CONCLUSION #10: One or two of [mustafa, populartajo, thinktank] are scum

I know that I am not scum, so I'm obviously not voting for myself. Between populartajo and thinktank, I think that populartajo is less scummy, (see my post 222 for proof that I'm not just making this up now, I realize that I have no real proof, but I've been getting good vibes from populartajo). This is why I voted thinktank. If thinktank is lynched and the game is not over, then tonight OG should investigate either me or populartajo.

[OG Smokedank]

okay sounds reasonable

vote thinktank

[OG Smokedank]

Its plausible i suppose but at the same time if we have a doctor they could have protected her and the SK was stupid enough to try and kill the person who was most likely to be protected due to a unchallenged claim.

who do you think that protected person was? and so far we have no claimed doc. unless emeril (thinktank) or teodor (greasy spot) is our doc, as everyone else has claimed vanilla townie.

i still think alabaska was trying to tell us he'd blocked OG. alabaska had a good reason to want to try and block OG, and i feel it's a lot less likely OG and the doc targeted the same person.

hey guess what though, my investigation result was still right about alabaska who tried to deny it. now maybe i'm a really lucky guesser that happened to guess scum as a serial killer and risked my own life in claiming to get someone who was a possible townie lynched. but i think that'd be really stupid of me to do if i was sk; i wouldnt even have claimed cop.

[populartajo]

Call me dumb but I dont get how people can think OG is faking her claim. She basically claimed cop knowing there could be a conterclaim. Thats a bad play for a SK.
OG Smokedank. Lulu. Greasy and Musher. 90% confirmed. Nuff said.
Mustafa is making too sense for my taste, lol, he got it totally, but I agree with his last post except the part where there are two scum groups or a Godfather. Dont you think this would be a little unbalanced for town? I think a SK makes more sense with last night results and the flavor of Achewood. Thinktank has dissapointed me BTW.

Vote: thinktank

Thats L-1.
Dont hammer him yet. Let him speak.

[lulu muumuu]

@musher: i get what you're saying now about SK trying to kill OG and doc protecting OG.

The doctor would be foolish to claim right now, because then he/she would be killed by the mafia while protecting OG.

Would it be possible that both the sk and the mafia both tried to kill the same person the first night? Or would they like, cancel eachother out or something? I think that this is pretty likely because PBuG was a pretty logical choice to kill.

I seriously doubt that OG is scum becuase nobody has counter-claimed the role of Cornelius and Cornelius wouldn't be scum.

i agree that it usually isn't a good idea for doc to reveal but we have a chance to get the SK. if the doc thinks he has info that will help lynch the SK today, revealing will not be a bad thing.

i also agree that it could be possible that both groups tried to kill pbug. normally i would probably defer to this reasoning, or the reasoning that SK forgot to send in a choice, or that doc protected the SK kill.

but here is my reasoning: after going back to the beginning of day two, IMO it seems like alabaska tried to block someone, and in re-reading it looks like he tried to block OG. the whole OG/alabaska thing day 2 was weird to me; i thought his post 232 was really strange, and also led me to believe he was scum, since it sounded like he had extra information on the setup (so did a few others of you if i recall correctly). at first it just seemed like alabaska was trying to get OG lynched by

insinuating

that mafia had a roleblocker that had targeted OG, and alabaska was now calling her bluff. when he died we found out HE was the mafia roleblocker, and after all that, it makes me think he was trying to hint that OG was his roleblock target N1. this makes the most sense (to me) as to why we were missing a kill that night.

i also agree that cornelius would most likely not be scum, but i've seen it before, and it is possible that the mod included claimable roles and left out more important characters for this purpose. additionally, my role PM states simply that i am a townie, but the rest leads me to believe i am a

vanilla

townie.

the argument right now on thinktank is that his claim sucks based on the fact that his character is a minor one. emeril is another cat character and actually has his own blog on trashspotting. you also forget (if PT isn't lying) that philippe's mom, also a minor character and one

without

a blog, is in the game. actually, of all the roles claimed, i would think that mustafa (tina) would be the most likely scum based solely on flavor. not defending thinktank, just saying.

what i dislike is OGs vote with absolutely no new insight.

[populartajo]

Thintank get your ass here, ok?

Unvote

It prob will come back, dont feel too safe, but I think we all need to talk more about this OG situation.

lulu, there's no reason to believe Alabaska. I know we can get conclusions of his play but that doesnt mean he always had to be telling the truth.

Anyways Im rereading the game and Ive had this same feeling against OG, if you feel better. It seems too dangerous to claim "cop" as a SK but her "gut" is just simply amazing. I share that feeling that she maybe knows more than us and that she isnt telling us everything.

1. She has been against demonking, alabaska ALL the game since her first post.
2. She has caught three scum in this post.

i think you are scum, alabaska j is scum and if i had to pick a third scum i'd go with lemming based on gut
again i will bold this: both alabaska j and malthius are MAKING SHIT UP to get you to vote me, neither one has actually given truthful reasons for why i am scummy

Wow, simply wow.

However Musher, PbUG and DOS also attacked her for the same reasons, yet I dont see any post where they could be scum. The best part is where she calls PbUg and illiterate and that he should quit mafia and where musher can suck a big dick (sic). This post should bring more light.

musher33 has also thrown a vote on me because i'm swearing and insulting people. well he can suck a big dick because thats a stupid reason to lynch someone unless swearing and insulting is a scumtell here. musher who do you think is SCUM and not just rude?

pbug i think is town. he has pushed for me with reasoning that again has little to do with what my alignment might be and more to do with my playskill but he has pushed with conviction and genuinely seems to be scumhunting.

hopefully if i get lynched he will start hounding alabaska/malthisus/lemming.

This was a post before she was almost lynched and before she suggested that she could claim.

BONUS FACT : She didnt mention Lemming or Cipher for all D2.

3. The drinking/not drinking thing is pretty much a weird thing.
OG told us Alabaska didnt drink but he suggested he indeed drank. No problm here, becuase I believe Alabaska was lying here. The problem here is that she went from "basically cop" to "flavor investigator".
DOS drank according OG, but our cop told us that his PM didnt mention drinking. This is an interesting point that OG has failed explaining (why would Chris Onstead go to your bar?) but I guess its OK for her as "possible cop" to "confirm" another one.

Lulu, my point is this, assuming she knew the allignments, why would a SK or another mafioso tell us all this information about scum in D1 and before her claim?

The only possible reason is that she's town knowing more than she should or that she's simply awesome.

[NabakovNabakov]

Vote Count as of Post 462

thinktank (2):

mustafa15, OG Smokedank

OG Smokedank (1):

lulu muumuu

Not Voting (4):

thinktank, Musher333, Greasy Spot, populartajo

4 to lynch

[OG Smokedank]

all of lulu's points against me are wifom, and one of them:

i also agree that cornelius would most likely not be scum, but i've seen it before, and it is possible that the mod included claimable roles and left out more important characters for this purpose. additionally, my role PM states simply that i am a townie, but the rest leads me to believe i am a vanilla townie.

is baseless wifom, with evidence that suggests scum dont have fakeclaims. so the evidence doesnt even support that wifom point.

populartajo i'm glad you think i'm town and yeah i really am that good

[quote3. The drinking/not drinking thing is pretty much a weird thing.
OG told us Alabaska didnt drink but he suggested he indeed drank. No problm here, becuase I believe Alabaska was lying here. The problem here is that she went from "basically cop" to "flavor investigator".
DOS drank according OG, but our cop told us that his PM didnt mention drinking. This is an interesting point that OG has failed explaining (why would Chris Onstead go to your bar?) but I guess its OK for her as "possible cop" to "confirm" another one. [/quote]

this is more wifom. not all pms mention drinking but why would that matter investigation-wise? also why wouldnt chris onstead be a drinker considering he wrote the comic? ask the mod of the game not me, also i went from cop to flavor investigator becuase how the fuck am i supposed to know i wasnt cop, my pm implies i am.

[OG Smokedank]

i even investigated the cop to make sure he was really the cop for fucks sake

[lulu muumuu]

my argument is going to get a little meta here... i know if i were given an anti-town role, the best strategy to take would be to play really pro-town-- track down scum, give good arguments, play

as town

.
and really, a SK has every reason to act pro-town, as their win condition necessitates that mafia are dead too. i mean, i guess you could play and get townies lynched left and right, since i think if the SK is left with just mafia, the SK wins (but i'm not sure); however, this obviously isn't the SK's best strategy and is likely to get one lynched really quickly.

as for alabaska-- the reason i voted for him was because his drinking claim directly contradicted OGs "result" on him. someone had to be lying. however, the reason i suspected him in the first place was his mention of the roleblocker. IMO, at that point in time he would have no reason to offer that information other than to suggest that there was a roleblocker that had targeted OG and thus, she had to be lying about him being scum. he was really really gunning for an OG lynch and probably figured that bit of information would get her voted. in other words, i feel like alabaska wasn't saying "she's still trying to go after me even though she could have been roleblocked", so much as he was trying to say "i roleblocked her, there's no way she could have gotten any result".

i also think it's fishy that people's drinking habits are ambiguous in role PMs. cipher even came to the conclusion (though he was mafia, but i think most of you agree) that whether someone drinks or not is most likely not connected to alignment. i would just think that it would be more concrete, like, if you're investigating as a cop, you'd learn guilty or innocent, and role PMs would reflect that plainly. plus i think way back, OGs explanation of her role was that she was a cop that got to see who drank at cornelius' pub because drinking = town. based on that, i would think todd and pat would not be mafia (todd gets drunk and crashes his mini-van) and philippe would (i haven't seen him drink yet, though i think he gets high on... something). i also feel like OG has

let us

come to the conclusion that she is a flavor cop

is baseless wifom, with evidence that suggests scum dont have fakeclaims. so the evidence doesnt even support that wifom point.

what evidence does OG have that the mod

didn't

include fakeclaims?
i think it is entirely possible, even appropriate that a mod would include fakeclaims to keep the game from being broken, especially in a game where a lot of characters are easily distinguished as "good" or "bad". in any case, why should we believe any of OGs investigations when they have been of no use to us? she could easily say someone "drinks" and no one would be able to contest it.

if i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but no one has given me PROOF that i'm wrong, on any of my points.

[OG Smokedank]

as for alabaska-- the reason i voted for him was because his drinking claim directly contradicted OGs "result" on him. someone had to be lying. however, the reason i suspected him in the first place was his mention of the roleblocker. IMO, at that point in time he would have no reason to offer that information other than to suggest that there was a roleblocker that had targeted OG and thus, she had to be lying about him being scum. he was really really gunning for an OG lynch and probably figured that bit of information would get her voted. in other words, i feel like alabaska wasn't saying "she's still trying to go after me even though she could have been roleblocked", so much as he was trying to say "i roleblocked her, there's no way she could have gotten any result".

scum lie all the time. if you listened to everything alabaska said you never would have lynched him. whatever his goals were, it certainly wasnt to help the town out.

i also think it's fishy that people's drinking habits are ambiguous in role PMs. cipher even came to the conclusion (though he was mafia, but i think most of you agree) that whether someone drinks or not is most likely not connected to alignment. i would just think that it would be more concrete, like, if you're investigating as a cop, you'd learn guilty or innocent, and role PMs would reflect that plainly. plus i think way back, OGs explanation of her role was that she was a cop that got to see who drank at cornelius' pub because drinking = town. based on that, i would think todd and pat would not be mafia (todd gets drunk and crashes his mini-van) and philippe would (i haven't seen him drink yet, though i think he gets high on... something). i also feel like OG has let us come to the conclusion that she is a flavor cop

youre a fucking idiot. did i ever contradict myself in my claim? i believed i was cop because my role fucking implies it, and when a cop countercialmed i re-evaluated it, but NEVER said i wasnt a cop, just that the main issue was alabaska lying about his results or not. how dare you pin shit on me that i never fucking said. i get that this is mafia but dont fucking insult me like that, not even if you are scum. have a little fucking humility you fucking piece of shit. go cry about it to mith if you dont like this but i refuse to let you get away with this shit.

what evidence does OG have that the mod didn't include fakeclaims?
i think it is entirely possible, even appropriate that a mod would include fakeclaims to keep the game from being broken, especially in a game where a lot of characters are easily distinguished as "good" or "bad". in any case, why should we believe any of OGs investigations when they have been of no use to us? she could easily say someone "drinks" and no one would be able to contest it.

alabaska claimed his buddy's role, if there were fakeclaims he would have just used that.

[mustafa15]

OG, what is your role name?

[lulu muumuu]

well fuck it and fuck this game. i'm cornelius the bartender, my role is basically cop, every night i get to see if someone is a drinker there or not. maybe now some of you will be forced to look at more than one player this entire game.

but what does being a drinker have to do with being scum?

drinkers are townies, people from the town that go in the bar a lot. i'm guessing scum is outoftowners but i dont know achewood flavor

we're actually saying the same thing. you are saying you are a cop. drinkers=town. you've never gone back on that. what i'm saying is that your results and people's role claims don't seem to match up with your "cop" abilities. and i wasn't trying to say that you told us you're a flavor cop, but i know that's what i think you are now (don't know about anyone else). i think the chances are really slim there're two sane/real cops in a mini and DoS is our confirmed, sane cop.

also, i'm not saying alabaska was trying to help the town out, i'm saying he was trying to get you lynched. he was trying to imply the roleblock and stuck head out too far. and yeah, his drinking claim contradicted yours so someone had to die. it doesn't mean you're not lying. and just because alabaska couldn't come up with a decent fakeclaim doesn't mean you couldn't have gotten one.

and please, get away with what shit? i am being humble, mr. "fuck you, you're a fucking idiot for fucking thinking that you fucking fuck". calling people names and making personal attacks doesn't help your cause.

do you even have a better choice for a lynch or are you just going to agree with everyone else about thinktank

with no new insight

[mustafa15]

we're actually saying the same thing. you are saying you are a cop. drinkers=town. you've never gone back on that. what i'm saying is that your results and people's role claims don't seem to match up with your "cop" abilities. and i wasn't trying to say that you told us you're a flavor cop, but i know that's what i think you are now (don't know about anyone else). i think the chances are really slim there're two sane/real cops in a mini and DoS is our confirmed, sane cop.

I don't see how DoS is any more confirmed to be sane than OG is. OG has correctly found alabaska to be scum, and also correctly found DoS to be innocent, so if he really is a cop, then he really is sane. I realize that it would normally be odd to have two cops, but keep in mind that there are two different scum groups, for a total of 4 or 5 scum. The game would feel a bit too stacked against the town unless the town had some other advantage, such as two cops.[/sup]

[populartajo]

where did we get the conclusion that there were two different scum groups?

[OG Smokedank]

OG, what is your role name?

read the fucking thread

[mustafa15]

OG, what is your role name?

read the fucking thread

You have said both that your pm says that you are a cop, and that it implies that you are a cop. Does it actually say cop in it, or does it have some other name?

[populartajo]

OG, what is your role name?

read the fucking thread

You have said both that your pm says that you are a cop, and that it implies that you are a cop. Does it actually say cop in it, or does it have some other name?

In other words, what is the name of your role?