Pick your Poison 3 (Game Over)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Incognito (2) -- Sarcastro, Ether
Ether (1) -- armlx

Not voting: Incognito, DrippingGoofball, farside22, Elmo, Gorrad, Flameaxe, Coron, scotmany12
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Incognito]

Meh. Fine.

What does "meh. fine." mean? Do you really believe I'm scum or are you just going along with Sarcastro's vote for the hell of it?

Not to get all WIFOM-y BUT the fact that Xtoxm ended up being just a Mafia Goon instead of that scum power role that you theorized about might just indicate that I'm not scum in this game. I mean, looking back on earlier play, ashmite84 (the person Xtoxm replaced) actually placed me at L-2 while QFT-ing Dave. Also, the fact that ashmite84 was given the role of Mafia Goon by the scum might just be suggestive that the rest of the scum are experienced players. Thus, I think Dave/Gorrad is town (he seems like he might be a good choice for being given the role of Mafia Goon, if you think about it). Marmalade/DGB might be town for the same reasons.

[Incognito]

Actually, the same might not be as true for Marmalade/DGB as it is for Dave/Gorrad. No offense to Dave, but he wasn't exactly the best of players, and I think ashmite might have actually been a better player than Dave was so Dave might have been a better person to receive the role of Goon than ashmite if Dave was scum. The scum may have figured that Marmalade was better than ashmite or something along those lines and may have given him a power role instead of the Goon role.

[Ether]

Not to get all WIFOM-y BUT the fact that Xtoxm ended up being just a Mafia Goon instead of that scum power role that you theorized about might just indicate that I'm not scum in this game.

That's exactly what I've been going back and forth on. I still have a lot of problems with you independently of that, though, and I could see your Day 1 wagon taking you by surprise.

With a few exceptions that don't apply here, I won't give a person credit for putting someone at -2.

I don't trust the goon approach to clearing people--PYP2 had Ckillor as the encryptor over Jordan-goon. I don't consider this specifically a strike against you.

[elvis_knits]

GO TOWN!

[farside22]

Near the end of day Ether's comments were bothering me. I looked back and noticed that she was riding hard against xtoxm from day 1 to the next, however when close to lynch she states the following:

For all I say about {Xtoxmscum, Incogscum, Armlxscum in that order}, Farside makes me very uneasy.

Unvote

--we're not ending the day just yet.

She goes on to say how scummy I look and then votes armix. Now she is just following sacrostro. I'm not liking her play. She could have been looking like bussing then she decides to see if she can derail the votes to someone else.

vote: Ether

[Ether]

Bullshit. I singlehandedly started the Xtoxmwagon on Day 1, and removed him from -1 because the day was moving so quickly. I never revoted, or made the slightest attempt to deflect the Xtoxmwagon.

Just so we're clear, we're not gonna hammer Xtoxm until everyone checks in. I see no evidence that {DGB, Farside, Gorrad} have actually read the thread, Elmo mentioned he'd reread, and Sarcastro is wasting so much potential. (I'd mention Flameaxe, but he's not

worth

mentioning.)

I'm not following Sarcastro; I've pushed the Incogwagon harder and with far more reasoning than he ever has.

[farside22]

You came off the wagon and then just started asking others. You stated:

I agree with Elvis. Note that he put all those fancy colors onto his own wagon, which certainly isn't a proof. Worse, he doesn't take playstyles into account--using

bandwagoning

as a point against someone like Sarc or Flameaxe is absolutely ridiculous even when you're working on more than 2 (or 3) wagons; he should certainly know better.

Yawn.

I don't really trust Farside's excuse, though I haven't thoroughly checked it.

Tempted to vote Xtoxm, but I want to wait for Gorrad. DGB, who's scum? Elvis, what do you think of Armlx? Come to think of it, what do you currently think of

me?

Tempted to vote him and carried a case, but never voted for him again. Why did you wait. Did you gather any information from your questions?

[Elmo]

Vote

:

DrippingGoofball

FoS

:

Sarcastro

[Coron]

Out of town for the next 3 days.

[Ether]

I singlehandedly started the Xtoxmwagon on Day 1,

*Day 2.

Tempted to vote him and carried a case, but never voted for him again. Why did you wait. Did you gather any information from your questions?

Because Day 3 felt empty; not really, no one new ever did jump in and I was too lazy to do much prying on my own.

How are you arguing that I aided Xtoxm?

[farside22]

I singlehandedly started the Xtoxmwagon on Day 1,

*Day 2.

Tempted to vote him and carried a case, but never voted for him again. Why did you wait. Did you gather any information from your questions?

Because Day 3 felt empty; not really, no one new ever did jump in and I was too lazy to do much prying on my own.

How are you arguing that I aided Xtoxm?

I felt that your unvote and lets look over at someone else odd after your push for him. Why push and push and when he comes close to lynch say, well I find "x" scummy and get bad vibes?

[Ether]

So?

I already took it for granted that Xtoxm would die; I think this is obvious from my posts. I was moving beyond him.

[Elmo]

Town - town argument.

[DrippingGoofball]

I really want to vote for Coron. I really didn't like to way he positioned himself yesterday.

vote: Coron

[Incognito]

You guys want a really, really, really good bandwagon?

Vote: Sarcastro

This early exchange between ashmite and Sarcastro reeks of scum attempting to link his scumbuddy with town:

I'm keen to see how the Sarcastro / Incognito exchange plays out before I comment.

Translation: you're his scumbuddy and you'll only bus him if you're sure that I can convince the town. Good to know.

I'm keen to see how the Sarcastro / Incognito exchange plays out before I comment.

Translation: you're his scumbuddy and you'll only bus him if you're sure that I can convince the town. Good to know.

Nah, just trying to decide if it's some grade A distancing, a misunderstandng between 2 townies, you've got his number or you're trying to start a wagon. And besides which it's very entertaining

Sarcastro even took this idea further when Xtoxm replaced in suggesting along with Ether that Xtoxm might be a scum power role here after Ether explained it to him:

Sarcastro, can we deal with him later? Xtoxm is much more likely to hold a power role.

Hm, perhaps. Why do you think he's more likely to be a power role, though?

The above post almost seems like Sarcastro knew that Xtoxm actually

didn't

have a scum power role. Then there was this post from Sarc directly afterwards:

Oh no! He's onto us, Ether! I knew we shouldn't have conspired to lynch power roles in the thread!

Anyway, I guess I'm okay with a Xtoxm lynch. If a bandwagon on him gets going, I'll switch over.

Want a real translation? "I will only bus my buddy if a good, solid bandwagon gets going on him otherwise I'd rather keep my vote on Incog-town. Then when Incog is lynched and shows up town, Xtoxm might be cleared."

And now that Xtoxm was revealed to not have a scum power role, Sarcastro is still attempting to push for my lynch without even considering all of the facts. Let's also not forget the fact that Sarcastro has been active lurking all game and has had a VERY strong tendency to push the bandwagons of people who have shown up as town.

[Elmo]

Unvote

:

DrippingGoofball

,

FoS

:

DrippingGoofball

,

vote

:

Sarcastro

. Easier and decidedly necessary wagon; I have had similar thoughts. Gogo.

[Gorrad]

Oi vey, I'm REALLY sorry y'all. I do have a read on the way but I have been SWAMPED as of late. It's coming, really : P.

[scotmany12]

And now that Xtoxm was revealed to not have a scum power role, Sarcastro is still attempting to push for my lynch without even considering all of the facts.

I'll probably find an answer to this in my reread, but what does xtoxm not being a power role have anything to do with it? Sarc found you scummy from the very beginning, why would xtoxm showing up as a goon change anything?

[scotmany12]

Sorry for the double post, I had to posts open at once an accidently hit submit on one before combining them.

Ugh, I need to reread this game. A few questions though.

I really want to vote for Coron. I really didn't like to way he positioned himself yesterday.

vote: Coron

Can you explain in more detail?

[farside22]

I haven't trusted incog, but his points about sarc and xtoxm are intresting. Question is don't most scum distance?
Also why Elmo do you believe Sarc and DGB to be scum?

[Incognito]

And now that Xtoxm was revealed to not have a scum power role, Sarcastro is still attempting to push for my lynch without even considering all of the facts.

I'll probably find an answer to this in my reread, but what does xtoxm not being a power role have anything to do with it? Sarc found you scummy from the very beginning, why would xtoxm showing up as a goon change anything?

Ether found me scummy from the beginning as well, but she's recently mentioned in one of her last posts that she is thinking about what Xtoxm showing up as a Goon and not a power role might entail with respect to my alignment.

The point I'm getting at is Ether suggested that I might have been siding/defending Xtoxm because he and I were scum with one another, and he held a power role -> hence Incog-scum wanted to protect him. And Sarcastro happily agreed with Ether's deduction. The fact that Xtoxm came up as a Goon instead of a mafia power role though should at least suggest that my defense of Xtoxm was genuine and actually related to how I was reading him, i.e. I defended him because I simply didn't think he was scum in this game and not because I am scum and he was a scum power role. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Anyway, more Sarcastro votes, plx!!!

[scotmany12]

Him showing up as a goon changes nothing in my eyes. I don't think it suggests anything about your defense of xtoxm. You could easily be a power role that defended xtoxm-goon. I don't agree with your assessment.

[Sarcastro]

Incognito, your arguments are downright ridiculous. First of all, the first thing you quote is still a perfectly good argument that

you're

scum. Ashmite's response was typical of scum trying to avoid commenting on an argument against his buddy (coincidentally, the same thing you accuse me of doing later on). I'm not sure how it "reeks of trying to link my scumbuddy with town", though - I'm linking too people who look like they could be scum together. And what do you know, I was right about one of them. But obviously being right about one means that I'm wrong about the other... somehow? Yeah, you work on that.

Moving on... way to completely misrepresent me. I didn't "suggest along with Ether", I asked Ether why she was saying it. Yes, I suppose it could be scum asking the question knowing that Xtoxm doesn't have a power role... or it could be town (or scum, for that matter)

genuinely wondering why Ether thought that

. Given that I know I'm not completely retarded and so would not blatantly

give away

that I knew Xtoxm was not a power role if were I scum, I'm leaning towards the latter interpretation.

Want a real translation? "I will only bus my buddy if a good, solid bandwagon gets going on him otherwise I'd rather keep my vote on Incog-town. Then when Incog is lynched and shows up town, Xtoxm might be cleared."

Now this is just bizarre. I understand the first part, and I admit that it can be seen as scummy, assuming you're not actually scum (which is not an assumption I'd make at this point). All I can say is that I have lower standards for lynching than most people do (mostly because having ridiculously high standards kills games), and you were my first choice, but Xtoxm was still acceptable.

As for the second part, it doesn't even make sense. Why would you coming up town clear Xtoxm? His scuminess was not contigent upon yours, and vice versa.

The point I'm getting at is Ether suggested that I might have been siding/defending Xtoxm because he and I were scum with one another, and he held a power role -> hence Incog-scum wanted to protect him. And Sarcastro happily agreed with Ether's deduction. The fact that Xtoxm came up as a Goon instead of a mafia power role though should at least suggest that my defense of Xtoxm was genuine and actually related to how I was reading him, i.e. I defended him because I simply didn't think he was scum in this game and not because I am scum and he was a scum power role. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Now you're just blatantly lying. Where did I "happily" agree? Nowhere. I never agreed. I never even found it particularly convincing. But the Xtoxm wagon was large enough and he was scummy enough. I was not at all surprised that Xtoxm was a goon rather than a power role.

I'm not sure why you think that it somehow clears you because you defended a goon rather than a power role. Three of the mafia are effectively goons at this point. And, oh yeah, mafiosi want to keep each other alive regardless of their powers. So you're not making a hell of a lot of sense here (this is also why I didn't consider Ether's "power role" argument particularly convincing).

As for lurking, I'm sorry. I haven't been contributing as much as I should, but it has nothing to do with my role in this game. I've been doing it everywhere. It's not a scumtell unless you think I'm scum in all of my games (including Mish-Mash games that don't have scum roles).

Incognito is still scum, people, and I'm suspicious of anyone who actually gives his poorly thought-out arguments credence.

[armlx]

Incognito is still scum, people, and I'm suspicious of anyone who actually gives his poorly thought-out arguments credence.

This made me lol.