Dichotomafia- Games Over

[Talitha]

- We don't know PB is innocent (although he's looking pretty good). We know that Uraj has confirmed being blocked. This could mean that PB is a pro-town role blocker. But it could also mean that PB is an anti-town roleblocker, or that Uraj lied.

- If you want to see the clever kind of play that Nanook is capable of as scum, check out Newbie 41 (that I modded). See if you can spot the lynch-bait and how Nanook used it to his advantage in that game.

[Wacky]

I'm not convinced Talitha is scum, because this is day 1, and sanities are unknown. If the votes were based on Talitha being suspicious, I would accept, but
that some people are using MMCL's result as the sole reason I find suspicious.

Thus I shall

Unvote

(Actually, I don't think I'm voting for anyone thatI remember) and

Vote: mgm

[Wacky]

I should also add that I don't think the wolf wagon is enough to go on at the moment. For good or for ill, at least he put new ideas forward and committed to it. Even if he turns out to be mafia later on, that provides information we can use.

[Norinel]

Hmm, no posts in 24+ hours.

In light of discussion in MD, I'll probably change the twilight rules in this game to either not bother with twilight or require the final vote to be of a different format (Perhaps Lynch: IS or Final vote: IS) Which way I'll go depends on how that discussion happens and if any of you have any significant objections.

[willows_weep]

We can't confirm the innocence or lack of it of Uraj or PeaceB. through what we've learned so far.

I'm going to go look in the MD to see what Norinel is talking about.

Because had PB been scum, we would be praising Nanook. It kind of seems to me that people are punishing him because PB is innocent

I really don't get this STD. Can you explain it a bit so I can?
Dunno when I read it it feels to be missing something.
:shrug:

[MMCL]

Nothing new to add... Tally is my main suspicion still

[Talitha]

And you, my friend, are insane.

[silgado106]

We don't know PB is innocent

(although he's looking pretty good)

.

I know in the same post with this you posted the different possibilities between PB and Uraj, but this line right here kind of jumped out at me (my bolding). It is as if you are trying to get on PB's good side because you know he's innocent (meaning you are scum), hoping he would stick with you or at least he would (even in the back of his mind) lean towards your innocence if the time for that should arise. Trying to buddy up with an innocent by siding with him?

FOS: Tally

[Save The Dragons]

I'm saying, that hypothetically, if PB were guilty, and Nanook found him out, we obviously wouldn't be bandwagoning him.

But Nanook. Nanook's bandwagon started, and worked. It was extremely effective at getting at a townie. The scum-bait theory is sound and if Nanook is scum, it makes a wise move for him.
Furthermore, back to logic, Nanook said that he was well aware of PB's style. And that moves into my core belief. If someone plays consistently a prticular way, whether scum or not, how can this be an indication of scuminess? It can't. And i dont understand why a protown nanook would think that.

Vote: Nanook

I got the impression that Uraj was at first talking from the point of view that Nanook was scum. He does mention the protown example, but Nanook could just be a townie looking at PB's posts, finding them scummy.

Am I sure of Nanook's innocence? Of course not. But Nanook's posts seem to be commenting on PB's actions, not on his generic play style. That is why I think the votes are unjustified. And that is why I see it as people punishing him.

[Talitha]

Silgado: When I'm innocent I try to protect others who I think are innocent, and attack those who I think are scum. I said he's looking pretty good because he claimed a testable role and had his claim confirmed by another player.

Your whole post is strange.. you start with the assumption that I'm scum and then use your conclusion to say that my behaviour was scummy. (Rather than looking objectively at what I did). I'm going to have to throw out a

FOS: Silgado

in your direction.

---

STD: I can see your point. Generally I wouldn't vote for a player for doing what Nanook did. I voted for him because I know him a little, and I've seen him play before, and I suspect he is scum.

[silgado106]

Talitha: Of course, town always has to be skeptical about everyone, one way to do that is by assuming someone is scum, and then thinking how that person would react to things if they actually were scum. This is always good to do, because if you assume everyone is scum, and you look at their posts/reactions/etc, you can verify many of their actions and you can also prove (at least to yourself) when someone might be innocent according to the way they acted during a certain situation, for example if you know that if they were scum they would have undoubtely done something different than what they actually did. I'm really bad at explaining what I mean, but I guess it would be some sort of strategy. Assume they are scum, and see if their actions go along with your assumption. You know what I mean? I think I want to keep my FOS for you actually not seeing this when reading my post. If you are town, wouldn't you have to agree with someone that is skeptical about everyone else (even if it's you they are skeptical about)?

[Wacky]

I'm not sure if bandwagoning anyone is going to get much more information.

As for what Talitha said, it's difficult to tell whether its scum-siding or town-I-believe-you. Personally I do both (though more of the first one than the second one).

I really have no idea who to go after because at this point I probably should be seeking the lynch of them.

So,

unvote: mgm

,

Tentative Revote: Tally

. It really bugs me that she seems to have a very good idea about what she's doing. I hope I know what I'm doing, but I don't think I do. Make up your own minds.

[silgado106]

Oh and by agree I don't mean agree that someone is scummy but agree with the fact that they are being skeptical about everyone. I don't think that seemed cleared now that I read it again lol.

[Talitha]

It really bugs me that she seems to have a very good idea about what she's doing.

Could you make this a bit clearer please? I don't quite understand what you're getting at.


Silgado: It's fine that you're skeptical about me, but I would expect a pro-town player to be trying to be objective, not one-eyed. And the fact that you're FOSing me but not voting for me, just makes me wonder what's up with you...

[silgado106]

I think your comment, the one I said I was suspicious of, and your reply only deserve a FOS for now. I would have placed a vote if it was something much more substantial, but for now I think the FOS is enough. And about being objective, I think that me being skeptical about you, yet saying that a FOS is enough for now kind of shows that I am not sure if you are scum or not, which essentially means I am being objective.

[silgado106]

Sorry for double posting...

With "for now" I mean until there are solid signs that show you are much more likely to be scum than there are now.

[Talitha]

Well let's look at what there is against me.

- MMCL says he has information that points to me being scum
- I got all defensive after he called me lurky-tally-scum over and over
- I attacked Nanook because I suspected his motives for going after Peacebringer
- I said Peacebringer looked pretty good (trying to make an ally?)

Have I forgotten anything? Because I'm sure you could put all that together and form a decent sounding reason to vote for me. That's if you really believe that any or all of those points have any merit. The fact that you're waiting around for some "solid signs" of my scumminess makes me think that you know I'm innocent, and don't want to have to answer for it tomorrow.

And your FOS appears to be intended to encourage others to vote for me, while not getting your hands dirty yourself.

I think I'd be voting for you by now if I didn't have my vote on another worthy candidate.

(BTW - I think the only good point against me is the first one - but that is negated by the fact that if you wait until tomorrow, MMCL will realise that he's insane.)

[silgado106]

C'mon Talitha you said it yourself. Of all of those points I have only said one of them really has some merit, which is why I had earlier kept by vote on you, the fact that MMCL said "Among other things". Once MMCL stated the reasons he thought you were scum I unvoted because I didn't agree, and he wasn't very clear about what "among other things" meant. So now, if you put those 4 points together, then subtract two of them, I am left with this information from someone that I have no idea if is telling the truth or not, and the statement which I said I saw suspicious. Those two things, in my opinion, are not enough to garner you a vote right now.

You say that my FOS appears to be intended to encourage others to vote for you, yet I had voted for you early on, and later unvoted because I didn't see much from MMCL's points, or your posts. Then I had nothing else to add as you had not done anything else to raise your scumminess until your statement which I referred to, when I brought you to light again, which was good because it made you post quite a lot, 3 posts in fact.

[Talitha]

You keep making me scratch my head silgado.. I want to believe that you have the town's best interests at heart.. but I'm not sure.
I'll unFOS: you for now though

[Wacky]

Actually, I'm voting for Talitha because Silgado106 FOSed you.

On further reflection, that doesn't make much sense, but I've done the same sort of thing in the past, so....

But they didn't work out well, did they?...

I think I'll

unvote: Talitha, Vote: silgado

And fos: STD, MGM, Talitha - (there was some strange voting and unvoting around you) just because.

[Norinel]

Hmm, no posts in 24+ hours. Again. So as little as I like deadlines:

Retractable deadline: 7 days from this post

. Half majority (4) or more lynches at deadline, most votes or longest at at least that number of votes.

Prodding lulu muumuu, NanookTheWolf, and ralphmerridew. Fuldu, PeaceBringer, Fishbulb, and Uraj45 will be prodded today if they don't post.

Vote Count:

Talitha- 3 (MMCL, Fishbulb, Save The Dragons)
NanookTheWolf- 3 (PeaceBringer, Talitha, Uraj45)
PeaceBringer- 1 (NanookTheWolf)
lulu muumuu- 1 (willows_weep)
Silgado106- 1 (Wacky)

Not voting (6) - Flying Dutchman, Fuldu, lulu muumuu, Mgm, ralphmerridew, Silgado106

8 to lynch, 4 at deadline.

[Fuldu]

Well, I'm disinclined toward posting without anything to add, but it does sometimes have to be done. Of the two bandwagons we have, I'm more inclined to vote NanookTheWolf than Talitha, but that's not based on anything other than gut feel and a sense for where we're going to gain the most information. So, no vote at this point, but if my vote is necessary to produce a lynch rather than no lynch, I will before the deadline.

[Fishbulb]

I'm following along, and if I had anything to add, I would. But I still think Talitha is our best lynch today.

[PeaceBringer]

LOL- first time mentioned on a prod list... nothing new to say at the moent.

[Norinel]

Just Uraj, then.

*ponders adding a Top 10 Ways Not To Get A Deadline Extension list to the deathscenes along with Dichotomafia != Tuthreded*