Newbie 621 (Game Over!)

[Gremwell]

EBWOP Just found out I wont have internet for around 24 hours, sorry

[mith]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch.

Thestatusquo: 3 (Battousai, Gremwell, Malex McJokeus)
Mirth: 1 (Thestatusquo)
zeal: 1 (Mirth)

[mith]

Looking for a replacement for TSQ. Prodding kristopf.

[mith]

farside22 replaces Thestatusquo.

[Malex McJokeus]

Replacing TSQ? I would not want to replace a person who at one point was L-1. Then again, as a sign of good faith to farside22,

Unvote.

I only ask in return that you post something of substance. If you read the game to this point you will see that you are replacing someone that has done much to annoy the town, by not doing much at all. So post your thoughts on the game and provided it makes some sense and has logic and I will be satisfied.

[farside22]

Hi all. I'm just starting the read. So far page 3 and yes I see TSQ making no sense. Lovely. I hope to have things to input for you today. If not tomorrow for sure.

[farside22]

Okay I was able to do the read thru. Here is where I'm at:

Maxlex:

I don't get post 25. How do you think you were being clever with your vote? Explains reason for his unvote, but doesn't vote for anyone or add anything to the conversation (post 37) How did Mirth distort your comment? Why FOS Zeal and Kristopf for TSQ comment? Post 70, How did Mirth agree you should be suspicious of her? Keeps on wanting to know what others think. Sounds uncertain (post 87) Why asking mirth what she thinks of you?

Mirth:

OMGUS vote against TSQ. Post 54 strong post. Good points. Attacks Nahraza blah post. (Question do you think newbies who don't play know any better on what to do and does that make them scummy?) Post: 65 A bit harsh on newbies don't you think. Post 176 agree, why didn't you say something to battu for suggesting the idea?

Silenio/ gremwall:

No vote. 2 votes is a small wagon? If you find someone scummy why no vote? (in regards to post 103). Post 106 agree with opinion on Nahraza. How can everyone seem middle of the road excpet one person when a few people posted nothing of substance? quick vote against TSQ without reason. Did you know how many votes were against TSQ before you voted? Post 155 2 votes is all it takes for scum to come in and vote if neither is voting or the person being voted against is scum. post 184 what evidence do you have that TSQ is scum? Post 208 is full of contradictions: states:

I personally am beginning to think less and less that he is scum and more that he just really doesn't care about this game. there is still a chance he may be scum mind you but I doubt that is the cause of his horrible play thus far. I don't think we should let him off the hook and look else where. Maybe a replacement would be best.

Post 224 OMGUS anyone. 4 people find you scummy not all 4 are scum.

Merc:

What makes you think that in one comment and no night action that TSQ found something? Post 41 is really reaching for a way to answer that question. Why worry about a second vote on someone? Post 76 repeat of what everyone else said. the whole FOS/IGMEOY is that a threat. I mean come on. Post 84 seems to want to just skip over nahraza uselessness to bring back TSQ in the picture. Post 101 how was TSQ contradictory? Post 194 how would a TSQ lynch tell you anything about Grem and Batto when they both think TSQ is the top list?

kristopf:

Why do you think an OMGUS vote is a null tell? Post 74 oh Mirth may I kiss your butt please. (sorry I dislike people giving kudos to others I get scum vibes when that happens)

Zeal:

Post 44 where does he get that Mirth was trying to stop votes against TSQ? Post 48 what? This post just confused me. Post 82 still no votes and no suspicions to be found. Page 6 and still no opinion. Post 173 going alone with Battousi's idea on L-1 with no question.

Nahraza:

Post 58. Lots of complaining. Talks about his way of getting a conversation started, but really the best thing is to offer opinion of what is going on in the game instead of off track random crap. Post 81 usless. I mean really I'm trying to be nice, but he is utterly useless in this post. Post 140 ask what is a vanilla townie. Why does Grem and nahr post about not finding each other bad rub me wrong? Post 196 although TSQ more lurking I would say pot this is kettle on the bottom statement. Post 221 hurts my head. States he would lynch TSQ do to lurking (i guess) then say maybe someone who replaced might be more active so lynching a lurker isn't the right play. (did I get that right)

Battousai:

votes for Nahraza for same reason as Mith (isn't that a nice cop out). Votes TSQ for unhelpful. Why did this happen after defending him for so long? Post 160 how do you know the only people not voting are newbie townies? Post 182 not finding anyoe overly scummy in 10 pages (oh really)

I see most of the votes against TSQ were due to him not posting. I will state now I'm am usually very busy on the weekends, but have time during the week to post more often.
That said. Grem is my top suspect. The OMGUS post pulls him out ahead. Nahraza is not helpful. Does this make him scum. Not necessarly, but anti-town (yes there is a difference) Zeal has pinged my scumdar for her lack of participation and votes thus far. Very under the radar type person. Plus when she does place a vote it is to put a person at L-1 based on battousai say so. I sudder at this.

[farside22]

All that and I didn't vote.

unvote:
vote: Gremwell

[kristopf]

Just picking up my prod, I'll make an actual post later today.


Good to see we've got a lively replacement for TSQ.

[mercdaemon]

Merc:

What makes you think that in one comment and no night action that TSQ found something? Post 41 is really reaching for a way to answer that question. Why worry about a second vote on someone? Post 76 repeat of what everyone else said. the whole FOS/IGMEOY is that a threat. I mean come on. Post 84 seems to want to just skip over nahraza uselessness to bring back TSQ in the picture. Post 101 how was TSQ contradictory? Post 194 how would a TSQ lynch tell you anything about Grem and Batto when they both think TSQ is the top list?

TSQ said in post 18 that his vote was not random. I wanted to know what his reasoning was. 76 was me posting without reading the previous 3 or 4 posts, which I should have at least done before hitting submit. After that Mirth actually asked me if I had anything to say which wasn't repeating stuff that other people hadn't said. I read the thread again, and it turned out I did.

Mirth and Malex had already picked apart Nahraza's posts, and anything I said on that topic would have just been going over things they did. I already did and Mirth had called me on it. So I had a look at something I could contribute to the game and found that TSQ seemed to be changing his story. If you want it in B&W, check out post 87 by Malex.

Isn't Scum pointing at each other early game considered to be a fairly standard tactic? I was specifically referring to Batto in 194. My gut feeling at the time was that Batto seemed to be more active when we started talking about TSQ. Since you're replacing, I think a lot of that is going out the window.

Batto: Np, I thought I'd listed my location but obviously I hadn't.

[Malex McJokeus]

Okay I was able to do the read thru. Here is where I'm at:

Maxlex:

I don't get post 25. How do you think you were being clever with your vote? Explains reason for his unvote, but doesn't vote for anyone or add anything to the conversation (post 37) How did Mirth distort your comment? Why FOS Zeal and Kristopf for TSQ comment? Post 70, How did Mirth agree you should be suspicious of her? Keeps on wanting to know what others think. Sounds uncertain (post 87) Why asking mirth what she thinks of you?

First off, wow this is so much better with you participating. Thanks for your post.

Post 25 and my unvote on Post 37: It was a random vote and a bad way to enter a game. I was trying to be clever but clearly failed. I re-read my post before I posted 37 and realized just how lacking in anything of substance it was. So I unvoted and waited for more information.

As for post 50, where I FOS Zeal and Kristopf, if you could not see that was a joke, then I don't know what to tell you. Especially after quoting TSQ on the definition of specious. I think you can tell from my avatar, I am a fan of the Simpsons (just as Kristopf is a fan of Futurama and you are a fan of Evil Monkeys). I didn't think I would have to explain that, and Zeal's OMGUS FOS in the next post showed that she got what I was going for.

Post 70: I felt that Mirth QFT-ing me saying that it is possible she could be up to more than just getting us all to talk was suspicious. I also felt that her reading into what everyone was saying was the act of someone being aggressive, which can be good to stimulate conversation, but can also be used to try to circle the wagons against someone. I have since revised my feelings and said later that she seems to be doing her due diligence as a good scum hunter (post 87). But with that said, Mirth posted in 88 that she does not particularly care either way if I think she is suspicious or not. That seemed a bit more combative, almost like a challenge. I could just be reading into it, but that was my thought.

While we are on the subject of Mirth, in post 114 I explained that if she felt the need to ask others about me, that meant she must have had some opinion. So I asked her what she thought. This connects into answering your question about asking people their opinions. Going back to post 87, I am trying to get others involved in the game. My way of doing that is to state my opinions and ask others what they think of them. I have not figured out a better way to get people involved. I am trying to find a way to get the conversation going.

Once again, thank you for contributing. I hope I answered your questions. And a special

thanks to Mith the Mod for making the executive decision that this game would move along more smoothly without TSQ.

[Battousai]

Battousai: votes for Nahraza for same reason as Mith (isn't that a nice cop out).

I gave my reason later, and why I didn't first tell it (this is my first IC game with such an IC player like Mirth). I actually gave my reasons before Mirth did for his vote.

Votes TSQ for unhelpful. Why did this happen after defending him for so long?

Where have I defended him? At page 4 he as all but disappeared and I asked him to come back and at least play the game and his only posts have been distractionary. I sealed it off with a FOS, now how is that defending him?

Post 160 how do you know the only people not voting are newbie townies?

I was talking about the FORUM as a whole, not this game.... "It would take two more to lynch him and

generally speaking

, newbie townies lately have been hesitating to force the hammer so he is safe from lynch."

Post 182 not finding anyoe overly scummy in 10 pages (oh really)

Let's look at that quote:

"In my opinion,

lynching lurkers

D1

isn't neccessarily bad

, especially if they are picking up their prods and the

lynchers don't have someone they find overly scummy to lynch

. Remember lurking =/= scum, but it doesn't also imply that they are town either.

The reason I support a TSQ

lynch to some degree

is that what if he keeps playing like this into D2? When do you draw the line to actually lynching them, when it's LyLo- would like an answer from EVERYBODY? If he keeps playing like this, it becomes harder and harder to get any real read out of him. I would definately support a replacement, but he's picking up his prods."

Who do you find OVERLY suspicious? I can name a few suspicious people right now, but that doesn't mean I want to lynch them, only 2 are scum.

I'd really wish you wouldn't have posted just yet, I would have like to see how everyone else would first react to there being a replacement. Mine is obv, as I still have my vote on you.





Merc: Distancing is as common a scum tell as, defending, attacking accusers, WIFOM.... the last part is what you started to do, but since you didn't go into much detail I personally see it as ok. Also, this is just my personal preference, but could you add an avatar to your profile? I usually don't pay attention to names, but instead to avatars (in which I've memorized avy to name). You don't have to but it would be nice.

[farside22]

I'd really wish you wouldn't have posted just yet, I would have like to see how everyone else would first react to there being a replacement. Mine is obv, as I still have my vote on you.

Why would I want to wait when most people are voting for TSQ for lurking in the first place? What kind of sense are you making? Also even though it was obvious TSQ was picking up the prod and posting some Mod's will replace people they constantly have to prod as it is annoying and possibly disastrous for the game. I know some mods actually modkill inactive players but that is in more advance games where replacements were one too many.

[Mirth]

Yay! Replacement! I'll respond to stuff soon. I just got home, am very tired, and might not have a chance to be on tomorrow. If I'm not on tomorrow will definitely be on Thurs.

[zeal]

Now we'll never get to hear Status' explanation... But still, instead we have an active (and aggressive) replacement

Zeal: Post 44 where does he get that Mirth was trying to stop votes against TSQ? Post 48 what? This post just confused me. Post 82 still no votes and no suspicions to be found. Page 6 and still no opinion. Post 173 going alone with Battousi's idea on L-1 with no question.

She!

Bah! Anyway, here are your answers.

The bolded part of the qoute in post 44 shows where I got that Mirth was tring to stop votes on Status. Although its weak, as I said in post 48, I don't want to fall for the same trick twice.

The reason I put an L-1 vote on Status was because at that stage we really did need to get the discussion flowing again, and everyone was waiting on his explanation. I hadn't considered him actually getting lynched until Mirth gave me her reasoning in post 176.

Zeal has pinged my scumdar for her lack of participation and votes thus far. Very under the radar type person. Plus when she does place a vote it is to put a person at L-1 based on battousai say so.

I don't see the need to place votes unless they are for a reason, it's easier to just explain my suspicions to everyone. Once I find someone I'm

certain

is scum, or is acting in a way that doesn't benefit us at all, that's when I'll vote for them.

As for post 50, where I FOS Zeal and Kristopf, if you could not see that was a joke, then I don't know what to tell you.

QFT.

[mercdaemon]

Merc: Distancing is as common a scum tell as, defending, attacking accusers, WIFOM.... the last part is what you started to do, but since you didn't go into much detail I personally see it as ok. Also, this is just my personal preference, but could you add an avatar to your profile? I usually don't pay attention to names, but instead to avatars (in which I've memorized avy to name). You don't have to but it would be nice.

Avatar uploaded, I had to find it first (wasn't even sure I had an offline copy to upload). Now you get to pester Mirth about it :p

And now for something completly different:

Which scum tell are you saying I'm exhibiting? WIFOM? Where? It may seem like a stupid question, but this is a newbie game and either I'm reading the wiki on WIFOM incorrectly or maybe I'm bad at saying what's on my mind and it's coming out wrong.

It's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you...

[farside22]

@battousi: Your statement:

In my opinion, lynching lurkers D1 isn't neccessarily bad, especially if they are picking up their prods and the lynchers don't have someone they find overly scummy to lynch.

Yet you voted for TSQ and asked a newb to place a vote against him to put him at L-1. There is an "and" in your statement so to me this means you are not finding anyone overly scummy.
Still waiting for why you think keeping me at L-2 and not responding should be my play.

[farside22]

Zeal has pinged my scumdar for her lack of participation and votes thus far. Very under the radar type person. Plus when she does place a vote it is to put a person at L-1 based on battousai say so.

I don't see the need to place votes unless they are for a reason, it's easier to just explain my suspicions to everyone. Once I find someone I'm

certain

is scum, or is acting in a way that doesn't benefit us at all, that's when I'll vote for them.

Also in regards to this comment. If you believe in not voting someone unless you are certain they are scum why would you blindly follow Battousi?
Sorry about the "he" comment.

[Battousai]

Farside: I really just wanted to see how the others would have reacted FIRST, before you commented. Of course it benefited you to actually talk, but I would have gotten even more information if everyone else spoke sooner.

Merc: "Isn't Scum pointing at each other early game considered to be a fairly standard tactic? I was specifically referring to Batto in 194. My gut feeling at the time was that Batto seemed to be more active when we started talking about TSQ."

Battousai: "Distancing is as common a scum tell as, defending, attacking accusers, WIFOM.... the last part is what you started to do, but since you didn't go into much detail I personally see it as ok. Also, this is just my personal preference, but could you add an avatar to your profile? I usually don't pay attention to names, but instead to avatars (in which I've memorized avy to name). You don't have to but it would be nice."

It wasn't really WIFOM, but if you pursude it further as a reason of guilt, then it could turn that way or at least be bad logic... "Battousai is scum because he distanced himself from TSQ." "Battousai is town because he went after TSQ." You see the same thing could be interpreted differently by my actions. That is why it's bad evidence, UNTIL you have more information to why you think I'm scummy.

What you did wasn't scummy, but saying a possible pair without going into much detail with evidence can be seen as (I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly from brain to keyboard) subtly pushing the town in a direction without them knowing who is actually pushing them if you do it too much.

[kristopf]

kristopf:

Why do you think an OMGUS vote is a null tell? Post 74 oh Mirth may I kiss your butt please. (sorry I dislike people giving kudos to others I get scum vibes when that happens)

Who's OMGUS vote? If you're talking about Mirth's initial vote on tsq - yeah...it's a random vote with pretty much no read. I supose they could have been distancing, but it didn't seem that way - too obvious perhaps?

If you're talking about something TSQ did, then, yeah, I couldn't get a read on that guy.

As to kissing butt in post 74, I was answering the apparently rhetorical "I want to see who else thinks I'm scum first." in the previous post.

...And I've got to run to a meeting. Sorry for my lack of posting in the past few days. I'll be back on within the next 24 hrs, and trying to post more!

[farside22]

My issue with people being all nice, nice to aggressive players is the first newbie game I played I saw someone doing that and they turned out to be scum. IGMEOY kristopf because so far I haven't got anything read wise off you.

[mercdaemon]

Thanks for that Batt, clears things up.

[zeal]

Also in regards to this comment. If you believe in not voting someone unless you are certain they are scum why would you blindly follow Battousi?
Sorry about the "he" comment.

Apology accepted, and:

Once I find someone I'm certain is scum,

or is acting in a way that doesn't benefit us at all,

that's when I'll vote for them.

Status fell into the second category.

[Mirth]

Back now. Mmm concert headache ^_^

Replacing TSQ? I would not want to replace a person who at one point was L-1. Then again, as a sign of good faith to farside22,

Unvote.

I only ask in return that you post something of substance. If you read the game to this point you will see that you are replacing someone that has done much to annoy the town, by not doing much at all. So post your thoughts on the game and provided it makes some sense and has logic and I will be satisfied.

The above post seems superficial. I do not like it.

Farside: Thank you for replacing, I did agree that Malex should be suspicious of me by virtue of the fact that he should be suspicious of everyone. I am included in the set of people called everyone. As to what I think of newbies: If they don't play, it could just be newbiness, but if they continue not to play after being asked direct and specific questions and attribute their nonplaying to laziness, then I'm much less likely to give a newbie leeway for not playing. (Nahraza is only a newbie to this site. She mentioned that she's played on another.) However the thing that most gets me is question dodging and useless answers. Didn't take issue with Batto because I was more interested in how Zeal would react to my criticism, not so much the issue of what number vote she was. (I however don't agree about attacking lurkers unless its really out of hand. Also Zeal was correct on calling me for my defense of TSQ. Again, I don't like lurker lynches unless theyre very bad lurkers and there is no one active who is scummier, but she was right in pointing out that I was defending him.

Isn't Scum pointing at each other early game considered to be a fairly standard tactic? I was specifically referring to Batto in 194. My gut feeling at the time was that Batto seemed to be more active when we started talking about TSQ. Since you're replacing, I think a lot of that is going out the window.

Not necessarily. Depends on the scum. Some will ignore each other, some will bus to distance, some will be friendly with each other. Depends on playstyle and how well they can fake being town. Depends on what metas they do or do not believe in. RVS is RVS. No necessary pattern in it.

I'd really wish you wouldn't have posted just yet, I would have like to see how everyone else would first react to there being a replacement. Mine is obv, as I still have my vote on you.

Why would I want to wait when most people are voting for TSQ for lurking in the first place? What kind of sense are you making? Also even though it was obvious TSQ was picking up the prod and posting some Mod's will replace people they constantly have to prod as it is annoying and possibly disastrous for the game. I know some mods actually modkill inactive players but that is in more advance games where replacements were one too many.

Agreed with the first part.

Zeal: so when you voted for TSQ you were certain he was scum?

Avatar uploaded, I had to find it first (wasn't even sure I had an offline copy to upload). Now you get to pester Mirth about it :p

I don't do avatars. I had one for half of 541, but that was never meant to last.

Zeal: nvm just read your answer...do you think its better to get rid of someone whos not helpful than to look for someone actually hurting town?

My issue with people being all nice, nice to aggressive players is the first newbie game I played I saw someone doing that and they turned out to be scum. IGMEOY kristopf because so far I haven't got anything read wise off you.

Agreed. Don't be nice to anyone. Ever. Don't trust anyone unless your role condition specifically says so. I agree with the no read on Kris too.

[Malex McJokeus]

Mirth: What about post 229 was superficial? Are you telling me that you would like to join a game as a replacement at L-2. Or are you just saying that it is under the heading of "Don't be nice to anyone ever?"

As I made it clear when I first voted for TSQ (post 136), I was trying to get him to participate, because he was hurting the game. To be frank, he was pissing me off. Especially after being prodded and saying "Hi." I was hoping my vote would get him to react. Other than that I had no reason to vote for him because it is hard to get any substance from someone who isn't contributing.

Regardless of whatever farside22 would have posted, it would have been better than antagonizing the room. Do you think if I posted that after she said something, it would not come across as superficial? Would it have been better or worse if I did not explain my thinking at all and just unvoted? Or should I have kept farside22 at L-2 with my biggest reason disappearing?