Mini 612 Akatsuki: The End

[Megatron]

Alright, I see what I did. When I read that, I interpreted it as "if the town still has the kill, they can use it silently after 7 days..." ...which actually left me wondering what happened if the scum had it, but I sort of assumed that they could just hold it forever.

Bleh. The two biggest scum tells (or, as I thought at the time, blatant outright lies) I've caught so far in the game are now attributed to bad quote tags and my own misunderstanding of the rules... way to go mega...

Anyway, enough of that.

> MoS, Battousai

Not sure what to make of this, after reviewing the mistake I made with Bat. MoS is extremely defensive, and Battousai doesn't seem to want to contribute much besides defending himself and talking about setup. I really want to say there's scum here somewhere... but for some reason I don't think it's both of them.

>> L, andersonw, Tom

L makes a strong case for the SSK kill, and comes off mostly pro-town to me even in the earlier phases. The "post X from your role PM" routine, while against the spirit of the game, doesn't give me any scum flares.

andersonw seems constructive and pro-town, but has suddenly re-ordered his suspect list almost completely, and I can't seem to find anything to point out why.

Tom came in at the last minute and got SSK (but I can only give so much +town credit for this since he was likely to die anyway)... it could still be a bus, but his posting so far looks good, now that I see where he's coming from.

...and Claus, well, I believe the claim, the flavor is well backed up, and it fits the character perfectly. I just hope that he didn't figure out a really good way to bullshit us.

[L]

Okay:
btw, if you are The Jester, then you should be experienced enough not to ask about win conditions. Could I ask why you did that?

I made that post when it was between midnight-three am. I lost internet, and I was thinking of what to do next. I thought to do a re-read and do a list. So I did a list, but I realized I wasn't too sure about half the people. I was still thinking about a mafia game on another forum in which confirming via role pm happens sometimes. Because we haven't fixed the mafia rules, we still have those moments, and I not being as awake as I should have been, thought I'd try it here. Completely forgetting that you don't do that here, because it ruins the game.

I didn't get sleep that night, and I woke up realizing why. I felt very stupid.

I did not change my mind once when I said I think MafiaSSK is rebel. He said he lurked because he's lazy, and he said he is bad at mafia. I explained what I think would be good for him so he doesn't think that. It did not change that my suspicions, it was advice.

It's 2am, so I will stop now before I do something else stupid. If I missed anything, remind me.

I'm debating another re-read.

[Battousai]

I already said who I felt was the most suspicious at one time, MoS. I also felt Megatron was also suspicious, but I waiting for him to do something while not under the microscope to out his partner.

Attack: Megatron

I don't really like to give a town list, but since there will probably be only one actual night, I don't see the harm anymore.

L- Wasn't too supicious of him at all, until he asked those questions which, to me, knocks him down a few pegs on the scumdar.

Tom/Ghostwriter- Didn't get too much of a read on him from his lack of posts, then Tom comes in and kills MafiaSSK which was either an obv buss or a good kill. I'm leaning towards the latter just by who he suspects right now (2 good candidates)
Well, I used the attack power. This is really bad for town, because if I accidentally kill a loyalist 20:1 odds I'll be lynched and we lose.

Tom- With 12 players, I would say 3 scum 9 players. But with claus I would guess 3 scum, 8 players and 1 third party. I don't think ABR would remove a scum.

[Tom]

Okay, Claus, I now see how Battousai's actions are scummy -- its not necessarily that he was debating the setup and said something that was scummy, but that he was only "active" in that he was discussing the setup and defending himself from accusations about the setup. So the next step is just to wait until Battousai gives us a list of scum accusations or whatnot. =/

Megatron, I understand where you made the mistake. Oh wells.

n) Battousai.
First off, let me remind you, a vote or accusation against Battousai due to his questioning of the game mechanics or setup is not legitimate. Those now alive who had the hardest time not jumping all over Battousai for this are MoS, Megatron, and L. He simply was open to interpretation of the phrase "the Akatsuki, the followers, and the rebels." The followers could be assumed as either an appositive for Akatsuki or a separate entity from it, because the grammar is confusing. The Akatsuki could involve both the followers and the rebels, or it could involve the followers, or it could involve neither. The truth is that we are all Akatsuki, and that the usual "town" are the followers, the "mafia" are the rebels, and there seems to be at least one independent in Claus. Battousai suffered from a lot of harangue from the town because of this, but after all of my read throughs, he does not seem scummy because of this confusion at all. In fact, anyone who legitimately still believes that Battousai is scum should ask themselves why, and if it is because of this setup argument, then you should reasses the situation. I see that both Megatron and MoS have admitted to currently understanding the misinterpretation, though MoS seemed very determined to make Battousai suffer for it (#172, one liner accusation).

This is a misleading post. You're saying that I seemed "very determined", and you're quoting the very first post of my attack on Battousai. Your turn of phrase makes it sound like post 172 was part of a continuing attack on him, like he had posted some sort of defense and I'd stubbornly ignored it. That post was the first thing I'd said about suspecting Battousai, so I can hardly see how you can interpret it as you have.

Well, you're right in that post 172 was your one liner accusation that started it, but your description of a continuing attack is sort of true. You had multiple posts arguing with Battousai about it, not just one.

n) MoS.
Was not very active for a while, and was extremely vehement against Battousai concerning the setup discussion. Post #172 by MoS seems to be especially dumb. I know that by "slip" MoS means Battousai's misunderstanding or inquiry into the setup, but MoS implied that Battousai was a third party or a scum party because of this slip. I see a very shallow correlation.

I fail to see what is "dumb" about 172, when I didn't even say anything in that post. I voted him and hadn't fully explained the vote yet, but you call it dumb. That makes no sense whatsoever. By "slip" I meant that I felt he had slipped up, that he had revealed himself as not protown. I feel like it was very obvious to those of us that are protown that the Akatsuki is the town, and the rebels are the scum. For him to ask that question implied to me that he did not have this information, which would make him scum or some third party.

The fact that you didn't say anything in the post was exactly what I found dumb... you seemed to be jumping on him for a reason that, through my readthroughs, I found illegitimate. But I understand what you mean

Starting around #174, MoS had a scuffle with SleepyPanda (now SP) over Claus's kill of Ashmite, defending Claus's actions. That is neither respectable nor deplorable in my view, because although Ashmite flipped town and its sad that he died, what Claus did was arguably necessary to establish order. In post #206, MoS voted and assassination-voted Battousai STILL about set-up problems, only to unvote and unassassination-vote after hearing the explanation. Overall sort of scummy in my opinion.

I voted Battousai "STILL"???? What are you trying to pull? He hadn't adequately explained the situation yet, so OF COURSE I'm going to vote him. "only to unvote after hearing the explanation."???? What the hell does that mean? Are you saying that it was unreasonable or scummy of me to unvote once Battousai defended himself appropriately?

Battousai had asked you what you meant by "slip," and you didn't respond. Just as he hadn't adequately explained his misunderstanding of the setup, you hadn't adequately explained what his "slip" was. =/ And I'm not saying that it was unreasonable or scummy of you to unvote him, I'm saying that it was the appropriate action.

[Tom]

Wait, Battousai, what was your reasoning for attacking Megatron? I don't quite understand. I know Claus' reasoning for suspecting him and I know mine, but you didn't state yours. It probably would have been better to do before you attacked him, because you are not in a very flattering position with the town. You even said it yourself that it was probably a bad action for the town... so why did you do it? =/

[Battousai]

I meant to put in why, must have forgot. Not feeling to well today, my hands are kind of shaking and I'm a little light headed. I'm going to the doctor soon so, after he is killed or blocks it or whatever please don't kill me until I at least get back and defend better.

Megatron was always on my suspicion list, I was only waiting for him to slip up and out his partner. He really hasn't done it yet, but I got the kill and I wanted to use it. I was debating on whether or not to use it on MoS, but I was just too unsure and the risk wasn't worth it.

What megatron has done: Goes easily onto bandwagons- followed MoS onto mine, farside's. He attacked tom for no good reason.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Battousai attacks Megatron, using his secret mangekyou eye technique, and Megatron explodes into pieces.

Batt returns into hiding, thinking he succeeded, but finds Megatron healthy and hale at the meeting.

Megatron has blocked Battousai's attack.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Kill reset.

Extract attempts reset.

Votes reset.

Its now 8AM.

[Tom]

Battousai is either Madara (Tobi) or Itachi =/ I'm not sure what that means, if anything, for his allegiance, I'm just putting the information out there.

[Tom]

Actually, Tobi is dead, he was MafiaSSK. So that means Battousai has to be Itachi Sasuke. They are the only two who should have the mangekyou eye technique in this game, because the third would be Kakashi Hatake and he is NOT in Akatsuki.

[Tom]

god damn it so many mistakes

EBWOP: not itachi sasuke, he is Itachi Uchiha. stupid names.

[Megatron]

I meant to put in why, must have forgot. Not feeling to well today, my hands are kind of shaking and I'm a little light headed. I'm going to the doctor soon so, after he is killed or blocks it or whatever please don't kill me until I at least get back and defend better.

Megatron was always on my suspicion list, I was only waiting for him to slip up and out his partner. He really hasn't done it yet, but I got the kill and I wanted to use it. I was debating on whether or not to use it on MoS, but I was just too unsure and the risk wasn't worth it.

What megatron has done: Goes easily onto bandwagons- followed MoS onto mine, farside's. He attacked tom for no good reason.

If you re-read where I mentioned Tom, you'll see quite obviously that I made a mistake regarding the "silent kill" explanation.

I never followed MoS onto any bandwagon, I called you out, because I misread something you typed (and used poor quote tagging on, so it looked like a NEW POST) - you did this while accusing MoS of lying about what you'd posted.

I read the same thing he did, it looked like the same lie, I wasn't aware at the time that you were (badly) quoting pre-game posts.

Now you're definitely at the top of my list, for completely disregarding the system in place for kills and trying to take me out on your own.

Ass: Battousai

[Megatron]

Also, as far as the farside wagon goes, I was only the second one on it because I wasn't online when he posted that crap about wanting people to post their alerts.

While I'm at it,

Vote: Battousai

[Battousai]

My kill may not have gotten through, but it PROVES me to be a loyalist. Kisame, Itachi's partner and close ally in the manga was a loyalist. Itachi must be a loyalist, as Itachi wouldn't want to kill Kisame.

[Megatron]

god damn it so many mistakes

EBWOP: not itachi sasuke, he is Itachi Uchiha. stupid names.

Either you read this stuff or you did a lot of wiki studying... I have no idea what you're even talking about

[Megatron]

My kill may not have gotten through, but it PROVES me to be a loyalist. Kisame, Itachi's partner and close ally in the manga was a loyalist. Itachi must be a loyalist, as Itachi wouldn't want to kill Kisame.

Then why did you completely jump the process and try to off me?

[Battousai]

Because I'm SO sure you're scum, and I felt no one else was going to go after you until it was too late. I was willing to take the risk for the rest of us loyalists.

[Megatron]

Riiiiight, opportunist much? If I remember correctly, the last person to jump the gun like that had a win condition that had nothing to do with the loyalists...

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'd like Battousai to explain why he not only disregarded the voting system but also made a kill so early into the "hour". We just had a kill like 2 pages ago, and you killed someone already. This doesn't really sit well with me.

Suspicion list:

Scummy -

Battousai - I don't hold the whole alignment thing against him anymore, just to be clear. But that doesn't mean he's not suspicious. He hasn't done much ELSE besides talk about the setup and defend himself/omgus against me/Megatron. I'm also very unhappy with this post:

You missed mine, I voted MoS and req assassination for him also.

Voting deadline is coming up in 4 days, so I think we should narrow down to the people with votes on them: Myself, MafiaSSK, MoS, plus No Lynch. Of the three, who does everyone feel is most likely scum or should we go for a no lynch and just assassinate like always (I feel that we should at least lynch, that way in case the rebels have the kill power and it goes silent the loyalists will have the most say)? My votes on MoS cause that's who I feel is the scummiest.

It's always a subliminal strategy to try to narrow down the "allowed" suspects for voting. People will naturally gravitate towards vote leaders if they find them acceptable, but it is not acceptable to force people to vote for a limited list if they think someone else is scum and none of those people should die yet. It's a classic scum manipulation. Even with himself on the list, he puts himself up against 2 leading suspects for the town and tries to focus everyone's votes onto that group.

Possibly scummy -

Claus - His claim fits, but I'm still wary of him being scum that's playing us. At the very least we know he's NOT working for us. Got my eye on him.

Neutral -

andersonw - I almost forgot he was playing. He hasn't really said much, hasn't committed to any strong positions that would stick his neck out. Playing it safe as scum, or just an inactive townie? Only time will tell.

Possibly Town -

Megatron - Believe it or not, I think Megatron is probably town, and I'm not happy with the kill attempt on him. Megatron has strongly stated his feelings when he posted, something that scum are wary to do. He's committed to bad positions that were proved wrong, but he stuck by them while they seemed correct. That kind of conviction doesn't strike me as scum trying to manipulate people into following bad ideas.
Tom - The MafiaSSK kill gives some brownie points, but I think it was only a matter of time until MafiaSSK was going to die, so it's an easy bus. I know if I was scum and had the kill, I would've killed him as well.

Town -

L - I think he's been pretty helpful so far this game, and all his actions point to protown in my book

Vote, Ass: Battousai

[Battousai]

I'm a loyalist, me being a rebel or third party doesn't fit in with the flavor if Kisame is a loyalist, which he was.

[Mastermind of Sin]

My kill may not have gotten through, but it PROVES me to be a loyalist. Kisame, Itachi's partner and close ally in the manga was a loyalist. Itachi must be a loyalist, as Itachi wouldn't want to kill Kisame.

I don't think the flavor in the manga will match up exactly with the game. Otherwise one could make the argument that Itachi is one of the *most* likely to be a rebel, despite Kisame being a close ally.

[Megatron]

Because I'm SO sure you're scum, and I felt no one else was going to go after you until it was too late. I was willing to take the risk for the rest of us loyalists.

Also, where the hell is this coming from? I went after some things I saw as either outright lies or slips, and, well, I got proven wrong. Would you rather I chase after something even after it's been thrown back at my face?

I'm doing a whole lot more toward the scumhunting than you are. The only time you've pointed fingers in this whole game was when MoS called you out for endless, redundant setup discussion, and when you put together a couple mistakes I made and try to speed kill me for it.

Both of them involve attacks directly made on you. You've not looked anywhere else.

Basically, all you've done is setup discussion and a huge pile of OMGUS.

[Megatron]

Also, I may not know the story, maybe that hinders me... but it could actually help, because either way, I'm not buying how your flavor text automatically excuses you from being scum, despite nothing BUT scummy behaviour.

[Tom]

Itachi could go either way with the flavor. He could be a loyalist because he is Kisame's partner and that he always wanted to kill Tobi, the now confirmed leader of the rebels. Or he could be a rebel because he was always a follower of the Konoha village -- he was a mole for the elders of Konoha while in Akatsuki, am I correct?

---

Was anyone else in a two man mason group besides me? I immediately assumed that every two man pair in the show was in a mason group except for the 2 scum. But then Claus' independence from the town would mean there would be another person not in a group... I was in a mason group with one of the now dead people, but they were never able to capitalize on it because of GW's inactivity it seems. =/

[Claus]

ATTACK: Battousai

For killing before I blew this whistle. You're not supposed to do it. Even, and pay close attention, even if I do say Jehovah.