Normal 222: Black Versus White Mafia (Endgame)

[The Fonz]

SS, claim immediately. We've massclaimed and you're the last one outstanding.

[Chickadee]

We have indeed mass claimed, this isn't a replace-in trick

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I saw

I'm a macho tracker enabler.

[Something_Smart]

Don't really get why the massclaim was done so soon, but ok.

[Vorkuta]

The game was dead and we were confused by 20 things including a potential mod error

[Darth Baker]

I sense something, a presence I have not felt since...

[Something_Smart]

I was in a game where a Mafioso claimed to be Informed out of the gate. They either claimed scum had a Strongman or a Ninja ability (I don't remember which). Scum did have two of them in fact iirc (either 2 Strongman roles or 2 NinJa roles).

Oh hey, I modded this game. It was two strongmen, and the guy who claimed it was one of them. He got caught because his dayplay was awful, but I actually was really impressed by that claim.

There's also the time that Boon claimed informed miller as scum.

[Mumble]

Prod received.

[PMysterious]

Keep in mind, you said you were visitor in this post. Now, regardless if VD is Ascetic or not, there's no way to confirm his claim that he killed ethos, the only reason you claimed Tracker would be to get some information out of him that he wouldn't otherwise give. Now the Scum KNOW that VD can not be bodyguarded or saved by a doctor, information that he wouldn't have given otherwise. On top of that, he hasn't even used his JK 1-shot according to his claim, which could be lost if not used tonight. You basically put a bullet on VD's head by forcing out the claim.

This is also incorrect.

He already claimed, I had no way of knowing he had more to his role.

Wanna know how this is a perspective slip?

You specifically stated that I put a bullet on his head, implying that you know I’m not scum because it isn’t a bullet on him if I’m scum, it would be me outing a role, one which I would have had zero way of knowing he had anything else.

The track comment on Ethos is something he had already claimed.

You scum slipped in this post by implying that I am town, which proves your post is you pushing a mislynch on me not pushing me as scum.

I said you put a bullet on his head, because again, anyone in the Mafia can perform the Night Kill. So by pulling out the Ascetic, the scum team now can kill him, and since you have the Tracker asking you to prove your claim, you can literally do ANYTHING ELSE and the rest of the scum will not be tracked. You can for instance, be a Mafia tracker, and you can move around, not performing the Night Kill, and giving a result to the Tracker that you visited someone.

I want to ask, yes, it was your second post, but why. Why did you put that out there at all? There is legitimately NO REASON to put out there that Scum has a Ninja on the first day of the game.

Yet you said it with confidence, that is why I'm thinking you are the Ninja. Yes, it may only be the second post, but for what reason would you even think that Scum has a Ninja, if say, you are the visitor.

False.

I always put my Informed early on, that’s common etiquette.

I also have enough clout on site where I can true claim something like that and people think it’s not.

Almost50 and I real claimed masons in a gamenwhere we masons and nobody believed us because of the style of game we play.

This is yet another incorrect post.

I said it with confidence because it’s my role.

Actually, there’s not a single situation where I don’t say that with confidence, so this is just an entirely irrelevant case.

And also, if you think i’m The ninja, then why did the push on me start after I brought up Chickadee could confirm me?

You don’t want me as confirmed town, so you had to push me.

This is implying that I am scum, which I'm not. The claim was brought up not because of the timing, but because of the inconsistencies that were brought up. Claiming to be Tracker, then claiming Visitor as soon as Vault claimed he was Ascetic, and as mentioned later on, you claimed Tracker on Day 1, bringing another issue. The Informed, I'll get to another case.

That’s actually the main reason why you’re scum here.

I’m literally able to become confirmed town after tonight and you’re pushing me after the way that got brought up immediately after.

Again, it wasn't a timing issue. It was an inconsistency issue.

You act like I’m “assuming” there are ninjas when I straight up know, because it’s part of my role that tells me.

Do you not know what Informed means?

Admittedly, I had to look it up, but being Informed AND having another Power Role is a rather slippery slope. Keep in mind you initially claimed Tracker, which if we are to assume you are, being a Tracker that's informed of Ninjas is basically two investigative things at once.

I’m also the most consistent scum player on site where I’m known for having everything line up perfectly and never having anything that doesn’t add up, so that push is terrible too.

There’s also zero scum flipped in this game on whatever day this is we’re on, which means if I were scum, I would have an entire team able to make sure that all the tracks are covered, which proves your crap reasoning incorrect again.

This is based on your past play. For all we know, you could be saying this to just get people off of your case. However, it is entirely possible to change your playstyle if you need to.

I also claimed Tracker Day 1.

So literally your entire post is flat out wrong and misrepping.

It's not necessarily wrong. You claimed Tracker, then you later claimed Visitor when you found out you couldn't get a result on Vault because of his Ascetic. So, that makes it even worse. You back pedaled on a claim that you made 2 in game days before this event. Also, if you made the claim of Tracker on Day 1, then how come the Mafia has never killed you yet, regardless if there are Ninjas in the game or not? Considering that you claimed Tracker on Night 1, then why did you not check anyone on Night 1? If you were Visitor, okay, whatever, but as TRACKER!? You could have easily proven someone innocent on Night 1, yet you didn't. So, what was even the point of claiming Tracker at all when you wouldn't even use the Tracker's abilities on the night after? If you are Town, then why did you mislead everyone into thinking you were Tracker? If you are Tracker, then why did you not use your ability on the first night, even if there were Ninjas?

There are so many issues with your Tracker claim and when you realized that, you backpedaled into Visitor. The way you would be informed of a Ninja, is if either you are a Ninja or if your partner is a Ninja. My problem is the fact that everything here is inconsistent, and you have given no reason for your claims to be trustworthy. I called you an enigma earlier, and this is why. There is no way I can trust your words, because you've given no reason for me to do so. All I ask is a reason to trust you now, and not later.

[The Fonz]

I have fairly extensive thoughts coming soon. First, I want Rick to put his justification for not acting night one on record.

[Something_Smart]

There are so many issues with your Tracker claim and when you realized that, you backpedaled into Visitor.

Do you think that the tracker claim was meant to be a serious claim?

[Chickadee]

I don't really want to check Rick tonight for reasons. But we can talk about it after he comes in and says why he didn't act N1.

[Rick Dalton]

I’m a visitor. It was a mix of “oh, I’ll get to it before the night, and not really caring who i target”.

So it was like subconsciously active of me not acting, but it probably looked like i forgot to send it in.

My role is literally there for false positives.

[Rick Dalton]

being Informed AND having another Power Role is a rather slippery slope. Keep in mind you initially claimed Tracker, which if we are to assume you are, being a Tracker that's informed of Ninjas is basically two investigative things at once.

All this makes anything you say irrelevant, tbh.

Informed is usually with a PR, usually a lot more than just visitor.

Also, i had this claim before, and you pushed Fonz for pushing at me. This is a load of crap.

Something Smart here can confirm that I claim all the time like that as town, and he should be able to see I’m town at this point.

[Rick Dalton]

My problem is the fact that everything here is inconsistent,

Stop being surface level. This is what confirms me as town.

I’m the most consistent scum player on site.

[Rick Dalton]

So I gather that Boon claimed tracker who tracked someone who then claimed ascetic, causing him to backpedal into the visitor claim.

If he thought the claim would be taken seriously, then he's scum. If not, it's NAI.

I backpedaled immediately after VD posted because it was a VD reaction test.

[Something_Smart]

Why reaction test a vig claim?

[Something_Smart]

Something Smart here can confirm that I claim all the time like that as town

Yes.

and he should be able to see I’m town at this point.

No.

I don't think you could have reasonably expected that tracker claim to be believed, meaning it was just a dumb Boon gambit and not indicative of your alignment.

[Almost50]

Yeah, I saw

I'm a macho tracker enabler.

*Sigh*

The good news is Chicka's confirmed. The bad news is she's effectively a VT.

And my VT claim stands, but I'm completely lost. Visitor is the Miller for the Tracker, but we also have an Ascetic and 2 Commuters. That doesn't look likely to me. It thus follows there's one scum in VD/RD.

Next, we have a whole lot of VT claims and a Vanilla Cop, so it looks like the rest of the Mafia are Goons.

I think Mumble should be on Chicka tonight with his BG shot (at least I hope he is reading the thread).

I cannot decide whether RD made that move as scum trying to confirm himself or as town who tried to gambit and scum RD saw the opportunity to mislynch him.

I am leaning the former though, because if I was scum I'd know RD was BS'ing so I would let him cause more havoc to town. I also have doubts about Town!RD doing this when he claims to have been informed scum are Ninja (or rather have a Ninja modifier?).

I am contemplating with the idea of voting RD here. Can anyone talk me out of it?

[Almost50]

And if you want to lynch outside of the RD/VD pool I'd go for Croag >> Darth for now, but I want to make sure everyone sees that VD/RD having one scum between them is more likely than not.. unless RD town!bluffed and VD town!reacted and then we can all blame Boons for the loss here!

[Something_Smart]

I cannot decide whether RD made that move as scum trying to confirm himself or as town who tried to gambit and scum RD saw the opportunity to mislynch him.

I mean if he's scum his team has a ninja which means he must have known there was a tracker. I hardly think he'd make that claim and have it be serious.

[Almost50]

@S_S: Had I been in your shoes I'd have claimed something useless but likely town. I dunno.. Nurse would have been a good one. There is no Doctor, so you are just a named townie, which explains why the VC gets a Not Vanilla on you, but you imply there is a Doctor among the VT claims, so it confuses the Mafia. I get that it could still make you a target for the NK, but not as high as a Tracker Enabler for sure. I also considered PGO but that almost always gets lynched before LyLo.

P-edit: And he did it to draw the CC??? Why not that?

[Almost50]

Like, if the whole team is Goons it is reasonable to assume Tracker is the strongest role we have

[Almost50]

And who better than FL to fake claim and can get away with it?

[Something_Smart]

And he did it to draw the CC??? Why not that?

Well yeah, that's what I'm thinking about. That seems to be the most obvious scum motivation for it.

That seems like a super weak play, though. Like, if they do have a ninja, what are they so scared of a tracker for?