Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[mastina]

@mastina, Krazy
What are your reads on kat?

Skygazer/Titus
Dannflor
Menalque
xofelf/Something_Smart
GreyIce

Katsuki

Formerfish

Nobody in the top tier is flipping scum.

[Krazy]

If mastina flips town
How do you view pink ball’s posts?

I'd have to reread if that were to happen.

[Krazy]

The difference isn't semantics; it's critical and vital.

[mastina]

mastina basically started this game saying I'm an unlikely pick for Pine:

^So my thoughts on Krazy can be summed up as: If Pine picked Krazy to be scum, it would be a dick move. Pine would know from experience that Krazy is burned out from playing scum and wouldn't have much fun in the role. Pine would know that while Krazy is an amazing town player, he's only so-so as a scum player.

and then has spent the entire rest of the game arguing she's a terrible pick for pine for [reasons] and that somehow, after Vengeful Ghosts, there's a chance in fucking hell Pine picks me

Sorry but your quote saying you're an unlikely pick for Pine is saying something else entirely.

It being a dick move.
And you not having fun.
Doesn't make you an unlikely pick.
Nothing I said in there says as much or implies as much.
And in fact if you continue the quote it explains why it's the fucking opposite:

But the reason I think that Pine could pick Krazy in spite of it being a dick move is a combination of:
1: Pine could feel that, with his involvement in the scum PT, he could revitalize Krazy's scumplay. He could see it as a challenge, to try and make Krazy have fun in a role he currently abhors.
2:

Pine could value Krazy as a player to help balance and round out his scumteam composition.

3: Pine could pick Krazy to deny the town access to one of its better scumhunters, which is especially true if Pine was denied the chance to grab Ankamius. (You don't want Ankamius and Krazy to be able to work together.)
4:

Krazy is not an obvious choice to pick, which means that Pine could get away with it without anybody really thinking about it.

Probably more reasons that I am forgetting about.

So there's a case to be made both ways.

I can see Pine thinking Krazy's a good pick

; I can see Pine not picking Krazy. Heck, I can even see Jingle denying Pine the chance to pick Krazy albeit not as likely as with Ank.

So why is Krazy so low?

Because my stance on him thusfar this game can be summed up as such: I haven't seen anything which makes me particularly townread him, nor have I seen anything which makes me particularly scumread him.

The last time I had that stance on him...he was scum.

So I think that it's more likely that he's scum.

[Alisae]

If mastina flips town
How do you view pink ball’s posts?

I'd have to reread if that were to happen.

you don’t need to reread to look at those Pink Ball posts and go “wow, mastina flipped town? In that case, these are some really bad posts”
Because if mastina flipped town
Those are some really bad posts

[mastina]

It's not that I am a bad pick for Pine in general.

It's that IN THIS SPECIFIC GAME. I am a bad pick for Pine GIVEN WHAT FACTORS ARE IN PLAY.
This is the heart and core. The ESSENCE. Of why to focus on what Pine DID and DIDN'T do, rather than what Pine COULD do.
Pine could pick me, because of my strength as a scum player.
Pine didn't pick me, because IN THIS SPECIFIC GAME, my weaknesses as a scum player would outweigh those strengths.

Like mastina thinks that this means Pine doesn't pick her, but somehow she's willing to put in the mental fucking gymnastics necessary for Pine to pick me after the game where I pretty much exclusively led mislynches?

Yes. Because you are literally my fucking inverse.
In normal circumstances, I might be a good pick to be a scum player.
IN THIS SPECIFIC GAME, my weaknesses as a scum player make me a poor pick.
In normal circumstances, you might be a poor pick to be a scum player.
IN THIS SPECIFIC GAME, you are a godly good pick to be a scum player.

Nice try tho.

[Krazy]

you don’t need to reread to look at those Pink Ball posts and go “wow, mastina flipped town? In that case, these are some really bad posts”
Because if mastina flipped town
Those are some really bad posts

I don't know what you want me to say here Alisae but no those posts don't really jump out at me, PB isn't really a strong townread for me but I feel like I see where PB is coming from with those two posts actually. Maybe I'm biased given mastina is obviously fucking scum this game

[mastina]

The difference isn't semantics; it's critical and vital.

Uh huh.
Yeah.
Sure Krazy.
You fucking know me and you're pretending that I don't make a big fucking deal out of semantics, you're fucking pretending that exact wording isn't something I see as a big fucking deal.
In spite of knowing those are really fucking huge things to me.
Exact words are important.

[Alisae]

you don’t need to reread to look at those Pink Ball posts and go “wow, mastina flipped town? In that case, these are some really bad posts”
Because if mastina flipped town
Those are some really bad posts

I don't know what you want me to say here Alisae but no those posts don't really jump out at me, PB isn't really a strong townread for me but I feel like I see where PB is coming from with those two posts actually. Maybe I'm biased given mastina is obviously fucking scum this game

okay
Let me put it to you this way
Maybe it would be helpful if you just
Forgot
Mastina was scum

You are so deep in this tunnel that any instance of “I want to kill mastina”
Looks good to you.

[Menalque]

Mena, whats your Pink Ball read?

I really want him to be town, but it's pretty much null to null!scum.

I wanna engage with him more before I get a stronger read, but I do remember thinking that his explanation for his progression wrt my slot made sense from town!him more than scum!him as he could prob have just pocketed me if he was scum and I don't really see the benefit from him in making me suspect him? Because I'd suspect him late game either way if we were both there, so why wouldn't he just take the free bonus TR?

On the other hand, I can see scum!PB emulating stuff he did that made me TR him in pfup even if he's not been engaging with me as much here (like the appreciation page) and I also don't like the way he came in with his Mastina posts. If Mastina happens anyway today and flips red then I think he's all good. But if Mastina ever flipped green then I agree that he looks really opportunistic.

@mastina, I meant more like, could you explain your Kats read?

@everyone, I know that I'm as culpable as the rest for yesterday, but y'all did another 10 pages in the 8-9 hours I was a sleep, so maybe bear in mind Jingle's post asking us to slow down a bit?

[Krazy]

Alisae I don't know what to say but if you choke on mastina here you're making a mistake. Now I have some quality vidja game time I gotta get in before I crash. Good night

[Alisae]

Now Krazy
I FEEL like mastina could be town
But I haven’t really made up my mind there
I’m trying to figure things out
Try to understand the bigger picture.

I think Pink Ball’s vote is scummy and opportunistic.
Thats all I am seeing when it comes to that push he’s making.

[Alisae]

Alisae I don't know what to say but if you choke on mastina here you're making a mistake. Now I have some quality vidja game time I gotta get in before I crash. Good night

Mena, whats your Pink Ball read?

I really want him to be town, but it's pretty much null to null!scum.

I wanna engage with him more before I get a stronger read, but I do remember thinking that his explanation for his progression wrt my slot made sense from town!him more than scum!him as he could prob have just pocketed me if he was scum and I don't really see the benefit from him in making me suspect him? Because I'd suspect him late game either way if we were both there, so why wouldn't he just take the free bonus TR?

On the other hand, I can see scum!PB emulating stuff he did that made me TR him in pfup even if he's not been engaging with me as much here (like the appreciation page) and I also don't like the way he came in with his Mastina posts. If Mastina happens anyway today and flips red then I think he's all good. But if Mastina ever flipped green then I agree that he looks really opportunistic.

@mastina, I meant more like, could you explain your Kats read?

@everyone, I know that I'm as culpable as the rest for yesterday, but y'all did another 10 pages in the 8-9 hours I was a sleep, so maybe bear in mind Jingle's post asking us to slow down a bit?

the only same individual involved this time around is me

I have issues controlling myself
Its an addiction
Its not a fun addiction, but I can’t particularly help it?

If anyone is at fault, its me imo.

[Alisae]

Honestly
I’m convinced I’m part of the problem when it comes to that
But not
THE problem.

Because sometimes I am waking up to 10-20 pages sometimes as well.
I just don’t complain about it because 10-20 pages is very easy for me to read.

[Something_Smart]

Personally, I don't mind a lot of pages, I just don't like a lot of pages of people starting shit with each other.

I think it's been mostly scum trying to do that (though not Pine, which is good, because a lot of people in Pine's spot would just be toxic and try to demoralize town).

[Alisae]

SS I am trying to fall asleep but its not really working out
Want to go over some slots with me?

[Something_Smart]

Mastina townreads all my scumreads so either she's scum or one of us (probably me) has their head up their ass.

Pedit: sure, who were you thinking about?

[Alisae]

First, I would like to see what you come up in response to this.
Instead of Gamma I’m addressing this post to you so...

So Gamma
if you were to grade Krazy's ISO with this as your rubric,
what would your read on Krazy be?

I'm more interested in why krazy in particular

Simple.
Exercise.
Take a look at literally any Krazy towngame this year.
What is he doing in those games?

Scumhunting a plenty. Active, giving content, giving reads. Doesn't matter what the pace of the game is, doesn't matter what's happening in his life, doesn't matter how V/LA he is. He has contributed content, reads, reasons, to all of them. Sometimes with a slow start, but he's always giving eventually and it's always good, solid stuff with good reasoning, good logic, sound stances that even if they aren't correct you can follow and understand the logic behind him having taken those stances, and these stances are based around players' content and him commenting on them.

Exercise.
Take a look at the majority of Krazy's scumgames this year.
What is he doing in those games?
Pretty much jackshit. When he does contribute, a lot of his content as scum revolves around mechanics and theorizing about what those mechanics mean for the game.

Now tell me.
Which of those two resembles his play this game?

THAT is why Krazy is scum.

[Something_Smart]

According to that rubric, I'd say he leans scum. Definitely a pretty low ratio of real solving effort.

Do you think the rubric is accurate?

[Something_Smart]

I've never seen scum-Krazy, I don't believe. I've seen him play town on like five different accounts, and I don't really remember that much that was consistent across all those games.

[the worst]

Interestingly I've kinda been wondering why I have so little feelings about Krazzy and then I went looking for his classic scum saltyposting (you can always tell he isn't quite as happy as usual to be here!!) and kinda wondered if he's just having fun because the scumteam is a bbbbblast. idk. need to actually read his ISO later.

pedit: can we keep in mind it's a heavily biased rubric :<

[Alisae]

According to that rubric, I'd say he leans scum. Definitely a pretty low ratio of real solving effort.

Do you think the rubric is accurate?

huh, I think he leans town because I used that rubric and came up with a townread on him because mostly from what I remember, like that post where he comments about mena behind who ank hid behind, seemed really good and would be put under what mastina said Krazy would be doing as town

Also like, I don’t think his push on mastina is bad, I think its alright?
More based on scumhunting then mechanics.

[the worst]

his play around LLD was solid wrt like blatant disregard for her continued existence/good wagon position/iirc he like told people to vote her and actually drew attention to her exploding scumfuckery

[Something_Smart]

pedit: can we keep in mind it's a heavily biased rubric :<

It is kept in mind, I just said I have no idea if it's accurate. Do you think it is?

[Something_Smart]

I don't see Krazy having any difficulty bullshitting ideas about who Ank hid behind as scum.