Mini 2110: I hate Mafia (Day 8)

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This game is good, because now you win if you get lynched, and if you lose, you get to play a lot more of the game!

On a completely unrelated note, I'm a Mime, please don't lynch me.

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I very much intend to make it to the end of the game without being lynched, don't worry about trying to sort me, please.

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VOTE: Farkran

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@Mod: Can the day-vig self-target?

p-edit
Not self-voting because self-voting doesn't tell anyone anything?

That's pretty wasteful of the shot, I think.

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It guarantees the shot happens on town though. At LYLO the mimes will control almost half of the votes, so it might become necessary to use it in that way.

I see what you mean.

I am vanilla townie

This is probably town.

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I am vanilla townie

Actually, I'm gonna say this feels gut townie, but it's not mechanically AI, I don't think.

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LYWIN?

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This game is good, because now you win if you get lynched, and if you lose, you get to play a lot more of the game!

On a completely unrelated note, I'm a Mime, please don't lynch me.

I am vanilla townie

We have two opposite claims here, one is obviously "stupid" (not in its offensive meaning, just that it makes no sense to scumclaim, so i assume the poster is either lying on purpose or being wifomy about it), the other is "lamisty".

I think this calls for the question: how do you think you should play pro-town in this game?

I think we need some of each.
I think narrowing down the pool of players open for a lynch is very beneficial for town, so both of these claims are pro-town, in my opinion.

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...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?

probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?

highly sus the way this post was made

What agenda does this push?

How does this oppose a town win-con?

In what way is this scummy? Like, what do the Mimes get out of this post that town doesn't?

So, change of plans, we'll lynch the vig on LYWIN. We could also have three other players to volunteer to never get lynched as long as a mime isn't killed. I guess I'll be one of them so I can explain how that works later on in the game.

Also, I think I just figured out how to break the setup.

I get the lywin vig lynch, but i don't get the other part. I think you mean we get to lywin with 1 vig + 3 volunteers + 3 other people. What if a mime volunteers?

There are three mimes, so if a mime volunteers, then at least one of the three other people is town.

...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?

probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?

highly sus the way this post was made

It's also in the best interest of town, though? Anyways i was more wondering why no one thought of that, rather than suggesting everyone should

Right.

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@farkran; yeah but if its in the best interest of both alignments then its a pointless gesture and doesn't prove anything other than getting townie points by trying to point it out

I am vanilla townie

This is probably town.

why not vote him then, do you actually think farkran is town?

I did?

also rautherdir is town imo based on gut and how hes conducting himself,

vote: rautherdir

for now

This is a bad vote, regardless of what alignment you think Rautherdir is.

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Wait no I voted Farkran. Nvm.

No, I'm not moving my vote from Farkran to Gyro, Farkran seems townier based off first impressions.

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...why didn't anyone selfvote yet?

probably because it's in the mime's interest to be lynched? its how they win?

highly sus the way this post was made

What agenda does this push?

How does this oppose a town win-con?

In what way is this scummy? Like, what do the Mimes get out of this post that town doesn't?

its kind of pointless to use the "what do mimes get out of this post that town doesn't" because the way this game works means town and mimes will be acting virtually the same in their goals since its the goal of both to get lynched. fundamentally, pushing a town win-con is also pushing a mime win-con when that goal is getting lynched. so everything we do will benefit both.

therefore its more productive to look at the context of how someone acts instead rather than the action itself. in this case i think farkran trying to make voting for oneself look like a townie thing to do feels more like a mime trying to find a reason to look townie, rather than a townie trying to do the same. by comparison, i think rautherdir's approach has been more townie thinking than farkran since he's trying to plan out the game rather than find a way to make easy actions look inherently townie or mimey.

I think you're either just attracted to one playstyle over another when we definitely need both, or you're intentionally trying to twist Farkran's NAI play into something AI. There is nothing in this post that makes Farkran's post look scummier (although you trying to push a post that's NAI certainly makes it look like you're trying to do so).

Wait no I voted Farkran. Nvm.

No, I'm not moving my vote from Farkran to Gyro, Farkran seems townier based off first impressions.

was farkran townier than gyro when you made your farkran vote?

...

Well, considering Gyro hadn't posted when I voted Farkran, yes.

How is the game only two pages and you still haven't caught up yet?

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Venmar is making a terrible first impression.

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But seriously, we need 4 other people (but not the vig) to volunteer to not get lynched today, and then I'll explain how this will work. I'm assuming Enter volunteered.

Yes. I nominate Venmar to also be part of that group.

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I think you're either just attracted to one playstyle over another when we definitely need both, or you're intentionally trying to twist Farkran's NAI play into something AI. There is nothing in this post that makes Farkran's post look scummier (although you trying to push a post that's NAI certainly makes it look like you're trying to do so).

this is basically just you disagreeing with how im reading the game. you think farkran's post wasn't AI, which is dumb, whereas i think it was. pushing a playstyle/tactic while trying to imply that such an action would be AI, should tell you something about the player.

not to mention that you clearly think farkran is townie, so you thinking his first post being NAI doesn't make much sense, otherwise why would you vote him?

i've also already specified im focusing on the context behind the playstyle, not the playstyle or action itself. if you want to be dumb, then go for it.

There's a difference between me having a gut town read on Farkran, and there being a logical reason his post is AI or not.

You failing to present any form of solid argument why Farkran's post is AI doesn't make me dumb, though.

Well, considering Gyro hadn't posted when I voted Farkran, yes.

this was actually poor wording by me, i apologize, but my intention was to point out that farkran had only made one post by the time gyro made his "townie" post. i was trying to gleam if you thought farkran's one singular post at the time was still townier than the gyro post you heralded as probably town.

I see...

Venmar is making a terrible first impression.

lol it sucks to be you huh

Why would it suck to be me? I'm doing great.

You seem to be taking this all very hard, probably a bit harder than you should, and that's interesting to me.

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I'm not disagreeing with how you're reading the game, BTW, I'm disagreeing with how you're presenting the game. You're implying that Farkran's post is mechanically AI, and it isn't. You're trying to frame Farkran as scummy with no reason other than you twisting the context.

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I think Venmar's process is flawed at the very best, lacking at its worst. His reasons for his reads seem artificial and he seems to be looking for reasons to have reads on me and other players.

I'm not convinced Fakran is town. I don't feel particularly strongly about the matter. Just because I oppose a stupid argument that someone is scum does not mean I think that person is really strong town.

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By lacking I mean completely absent

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I could see paranoid townie, maybe.

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Your argument that I'm a mime is stupid, because I'm already a mime. And I'm not defending Farkran, I'm attacking you.

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You should hard scum read and that shouldn't excuse bad arguments for why a player is scum.

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I think seeing the attacks on the relatively ridiculous case from Venmar aren't a defense of you so much as they're an attack on one of the cases against you.

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It doesn't make you not town, just not scum at least in the way he seems to be trying to be accusing you of.

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I don't think anyone is anywhere near obvtown, FTR

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@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

eh i'd lean not

for the record i don't actually mind volunteering to being part of the no-lynch group as long as enter is in it.

Considering that I was the very first person to come up with the idea
as well as the first person to volunteer

this is remarkably petty

but also kinda funny in a not laugh out loud kinda way.

alright whatever i see this isn't actually all that helpful.

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Just posting here because Venmar has absolutely no control over what I do. I'm staying until end game because I want to not because anyone else is trying to make me. So there. I can be petty too.

Actually I'm kinda pissed that he said that as if I didn't come up with the idea or volunteer myself to be the first one. I don't know why. It really doesn't matter, but I've been thinking about it for hours and I'm still mad about it.

Wow I hate this game so much.

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I'm probably one of the pettiest people alive.

I don't know how on earth it escalated from me asking how does Farkran's vote push a mime Wincon into Venmar making claims left and right out his rear about "people should have a read on both me and Enter right now" "I have reads on Enter, Farkran, etc" right now. Oh wait, yes I do.

Venmar, dude, I asked you a question. You don't have to make stuff up to justify your reasoning, you can just say "I just didn't like it."

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VOTE: Venmar

I actually don't care what his alignment is, I think everyone else in this game I either know or has been relatively agreeable so far, and I find I usually only have difficulties with one or two players a game anyways, so I'm gonna push this for a bit until we work things out or he gets lynched. I think the odds are in our favor that he's town and if he's a mime then we can afford to take one hit. It should become pretty obvious who his buddies are anyways if he's a mime, but I kinda doubt it and I really don't care long run. We're gonna win this game anyways, so. *shrug*

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No. No reads right now. Nothing's strong enough yet for me to share really, it's just gonna be a bunch of fence-sitting.

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I'll give you more as far as reads later, probably. Oh darn we're on 6 pages already. Alright well it's time for me to head out. I'm probably going to be significantly less spammy in days to come, unless someone wants to pick a fight with me again in which case I will be very involved.

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Last post for now, I promise, unless someone asks me a question in the next like... five minutes or so.

No. No reads right now. Nothing's strong enough yet for me to share really, it's just gonna be a bunch of fence-sitting.

By fence-sitty here I mean that I haven't seen anything from anyone that makes me feel particularly stable in my read of them, and I've found that sharing reads early, quickly, and often leads to vertigo because they're often really weak and then I get stuck pushing a lynch I don't really believe in -- nobody likes that, so I stopped doing it. In theory. There are a couple other pro-town reasons for this, too, but I don't like sharing some of them in the open particularly because it makes their effect somewhat weaker. This being said I will probably try and be more deliberate about trying not to reveal what my instantaneous read is on any particular player at any particular moment - questions that might seem to give that away should not be taken as indicative of my read on said player.

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i think you need to take a step back enter. i wasn't personally attacking you, and i'm not making things up out of malice or just to spite you. last thing i want is for you to be unduly upset. but you came at me pretty hard and as far as i can tell, you really blew my read out of proportion and now became upset over it. i was content to leave my initial read of farkran as the slight sus ping it was, and it was just a ping, i've already said that farkrans more recent posting is a lot better, you're the one that really wanted to hammer me down to a hard scum read. i gave you my reasoning, which fine, you disagree with, but it's unfair to say that i am "making things up", which i'm not, and then throw a tantrum as if i attacked you personally, which i didn't, and it's childish to put the burden of that tantrum on the game.

I think you're reading things that aren't there, and that's fine cuz I might have been doing a little of that, too.

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enter are you genuine about your mime claim? are you actually claiming mime? because i've been reading this game as of so far just entirely ignoring that as a joke

Let's pretend for this game that I'm a mime -> my alignment is not in question. I think this makes it somewhat easier to figure the game out due to the smaller pool of players to read and the fewer possible vanity wagons.

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also, enter, for the record, if you're going to be upset about me wanting you to be a volunteer alongside me, just remember you did the same thing first to me:

Pretending that me calling you out as someone who should stay behind when you had made no move to do so on your own prior is the same as you saying you will only stay behind if I do when I had made it very clear in my first couple posts of the game that was the only thing I was going to do is ridiculous on a whole nother scale. I was trying to make sure a very slight scum read didn't get lynched, you were trying to make it seem like you had any sort of control over what I do.

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also

big lol

@gamma for coming out of the gates only shading me

this is dismissive and presents gamma as doing something he's not.

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I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.

Ah yes, my favorite - mod confirmed town players are the only players with reads worth having.

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I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.

What? Why do you put more weight on lynching your strongest TR on day 1? It would seem it would be more important in future days, policy lynching seems like it's probably better earlier in the game than later.

And I am very much for policy lynching. I think policy lynches have won games before, and they're undervalued and underappreciated ways to better manage the game from a town perspective.

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I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.

Hardly.

I'm ConfTown, not informed.

+1
I'm townreading this guy.

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I feel like a winning strategy would be for Vig (Wake) to just choose someone who we randomlynch.

Hardly.

I'm ConfTown, not informed.

+1
I'm townreading this guy.

I'd shoot you if you didn't after my uncontested reveal.

I thought the goal for most people in this game was to get shot.

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I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.

What? Why do you put more weight on lynching your strongest TR on day 1? It would seem it would be more important in future days, policy lynching seems like it's probably better earlier in the game than later.

And I am very much for policy lynching. I think policy lynches have won games before, and they're undervalued and underappreciated ways to better manage the game from a town perspective.

Well, I’m not a fan of pls as you know, unless very extreme circumstances and I don’t really see what Venmar has done to even warrant a policy lynch?

Have you ever experienced a policy lynch before, or is this merely a theoretical opposition?

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I think you should always lynch your strongest tr, especially on D1.

What? Why do you put more weight on lynching your strongest TR on day 1? It would seem it would be more important in future days, policy lynching seems like it's probably better earlier in the game than later.

And I am very much for policy lynching. I think policy lynches have won games before, and they're undervalued and underappreciated ways to better manage the game from a town perspective.

Well, I’m not a fan of pls as you know, unless very extreme circumstances and I don’t really see what Venmar has done to even warrant a policy lynch?

Have you ever experienced a policy lynch before, or is this merely a theoretical opposition?

I was in a game where a player literally refused to ever vote but nevertheless continued to prod dodge, so we lynched him because the mechanics were votes heavy and a non-voting slot was a threat to the game - which is as close as I’ve ever gotten. Like I said, I’m not a fan without a damn good reason and you still haven’t explained why Venmar would even be deserving of one.

I see. I think you should try it. I have done so recently and I think games are so much better when you don't stress the whole time about only lynching purely because a player must be scum.

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VOTE: Rau

I support this plan. Also I'm a mime, so don't shoot or lynch me unless it's a last resort sort of deal.

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People leaving Rau wagon make me nervous.

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I don't want Farkran dead. They're probably town and I'd rather have them around because I work well with them, I think, and I'd rather have town that is more obviously town for later when lynching is slightly more difficult.

Rau's contribution is purely mechanical. I don't expect to see any addition as far as solving from that slot later in the game - he seems like the type of player to have a solid mechanics based understanding of the game but I'm not certain about his ability to read people. In addition, I fear that he will likely get shaded later due to this fact, his style seems very much to be one that would be easy to come off as scummy due to his tone, so this is a good day 1 lynch.

Venmar is also a good lynch because I don't trust him. We can bite a mime bullet early easier than a mime bullet later, and I don't want him getting in the way. I don't like his process and I think regardless of his alignment he could be dangerous to town later.

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It's important to remember that lynches on players of the correct alignment will be significantly easier this game than they will in other games because a majority of players someone would pick are likely to be town.

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Rautherdir's plan is good because if all the mimes stuck together we now have a 100% chance of winning the game. If the mimes are split, I'm pretty sure we still have a pretty solid chance to win (although I don't know if it's any better than the one we have before his plan. This is another point towards lynching him first - if he flips mime, we know there are mimes in both groups and his plan is dumpstered. If he flips town, I think it's relatively likely that we manage to win this following his plan (or slightly altered versions of it depending on the situation).

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I'm a mime traitor, so I'm really not sure who the other mime partners are right now, but I have a few guesses and I'll out them when I figure it out.

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I really wish someone was here to talk to, but I guess it's ok that there isn't?

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354 is a big commitment and im not sure that mimes would do that

Right.

So killing Rau is a pretty solid choice at this point.

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VOTE: Hectic I think this is the next best place to go, but I'm pretty ok with pretty much anyone except myself in the second group (Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, and DrDolittle) for varying reasons. I'd rather keep Farkran with me for a while longer if people are ok with that, but that's kind of selfish of me so I don't really care all that much

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democratic vig?

what are your thoughts on who should be voted?

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just so we can see where everyone stands, I'd like everyone to, in their next post, point out the next player they'd like to see lynched from this list: (Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, and DrDolittle) or vote for siad player with maybe a little short blurb on why

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I'd also prefer it if we waited at least 48 hours before hammering just so we can discuss a little bit (i know this is pretty unlikely, but I think preparation will help us quite a bit in the long run)

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like ideally we get input from everyone before hammering

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my only issue today is that from scum pov if we follow rauth, the game is deterministic, and the fact that they are not swarming out veto-ing the plan suggests that there is mime in the volunteer group.

but it does not mean that we still shouldn't follow the plan, so shrug.

well considering we've only had 4 people total post since the flip, they didn't necessarily know which side we would choose.

that said i don't think i intend to follow the plan in it's entirety. even if we lynch all of the other four players from rauth's list on this side, i don't want myself lynched. don't worry we won't follow blindly - most of us are capable human beings taht will appply thought

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like the only person opposing the plan right now, ironically, is you.

i know that's one of the weird catch-22s of mafia (of which there are many - "i resist this lynch because there hasn't been any resistance to this lynch", etc) but i do want to say that it's quite possible that you and I are both mimes

i intend to play my mime like i want town to win, so it makes sense that you would be the only person opposing this

all i'm saying is it seems rather foolish of you to only bring this up now, and i do want to point out that you also refused to point out the reason you voted farkran - you've been talking about how to treat the vig and the amount of resistance the plan is getting, neither of which are specific reads on players, and tbh that doesn't look all too good on your part

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why dont you want yourself lynched?

i'm a mime

also if i die right now i don't get to enjoy any of the mafia game and i really just wanna be part of the whole solving process and everything

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ok i'm not actually a mime, but like it's fun to say that i am and in the end it doesn't really matter because i shouldn't be a topic of lynching anyways

because one less person in the lynch pool makes this just slightly easier for towna nyways, i think

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like let's say that people wanted me lynched right now

and let's say that there was another town wagon

now there's a question about whether or not one of us is scum and it gives scum an opportunity to push a third vote or soemthing stupid like that
and because town can't decide between two town members, now we lynch scum instead because scum was easier to lynch

i'd like to avoid situations like that i think it's just optimal if i stay out of the lynch pool

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at least that's how i see it

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that's a lot of "why"

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...not

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eh i guess that's fair
gamma didn't really talk about why farkran was their town read either so i can't get too uppity

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why aren't you voting yourself?

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Still think we should've kept Rau around and treated him as a semi-confirmed town.

grumble grumble
I don't want to be lynched yet.

@Pyrrha: Why did Ray flipping town better your read on Venmar? Rau was a consensus townread, does this mean his flip has bettered your read on everyone then?

Happy to lynch Farkran but he could be useful to keep around. Venmar's probably fine but I'll ISO him again to double check.

Because he correctly tr Rauth.

You mean like literally everyone else in the game? The difference being that Venmar tried to say LAMIST because of it but no one else did

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Venmars approach is self contradictory

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I was just thinking that if Rau was scum than Venmar would be as well but I could see it as a possible TMI too, I suppose.

So, you still think Hectic is the most optimal lynch today?

I had the same thought, actually, lemme see where I got that from, cuz I dismissed it recently as only being gut but I might have been wrong.

Of the players in the current list, Hectic is probably the best as far as lynching strong town reads first. Farkran I think is possibly the only person I think more likely to flip town in our group (although I think I'm somewhat town reading DDL as well).

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So I think my number one scum read if Rau had flipped scum would be Farkran, TBH

I think my Venmar read was mostly gut

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I just skimmed both ISOs and I didn't see anything that made one largely likely scum over the other other than the fact that Venmar is pushing Rau as a lunch earlier.

Hectic recently became a better lynch, though, because I think they're likely town, and because if the flip scum, I think we avoid Venmar, but if they flip town we should flip Venmar next, because I think a town Hectic means Venmar is also town

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I'm not all too strong on the logic in my last post, like I said earlier, Venmars approach doesn't really make sense from town, but pushing hectic right now mostly makes sense if he's town, I think. There are some small cases where he does it as scum and it wouldn't surprise me if he did, but I'd feel more comfortable with his alignment of Hectic flips town

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alright i'll be honest i think venmar has the most mime equity of anyone in the game

his posts are remarkably omgus-y - he attacks and shades me multiple times this game (which is specifically what i was trying to avoid by claiming mime) without real discourse or reason and while simultaneously agreeing with me

his actions seem directly contrary to what he is saying

hectic flipping town would make me feel slightly more comfortable with him being town but i'd still scum read him. i'm willing to lynch him because i think a lot of people disagree with me on my read of him and i'd rather get him over with sooner rather than flip him late and then realize the whole read on the game is wrong or no lynch because we tried to push elsewhere and people were insistent that we flip venmar. i also don't want any of his posts in the thread anymore, i think a large portion of them are largely counter to what is productive and helpful for town, and i can get into this more when i get back from work tonight.

[Enter]

I was just thinking that if Rau was scum than Venmar would be as well but I could see it as a possible TMI too, I suppose.

So, you still think Hectic is the most optimal lynch today?

I had the same thought, actually, lemme see where I got that from, cuz I dismissed it recently as only being gut but I might have been wrong.

Of the players in the current list, Hectic is probably the best as far as lynching strong town reads first. Farkran I think is possibly the only person I think more likely to flip town in our group (although I think I'm somewhat town reading DDL as well).

Yeah, I think Hectic is probably wrong on DDL. Thinking it over, if it’s between those 3, Farkran may be better to keep around longer, so I’m leaning Hectic. It’s too bad there aren’t stumps in this setup, because then we’d just boom, boom, boom, keep lynching the towniest of players without needing to consider a particular player’s utility to town and I think that’s arguably true for all 3.

yeah, i agree.

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I think Venmars push on Hectic is pretty opposite to what he'd want to do based on the post he made right before it. It's weak, I know, I don't feel all that strongly about it

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I'm starting to think all these "i want X alive longer" actually mean "i don't want to lynch there because i know he's town, let's pick a different target until i can find some solid reason to scumread the consensus lynch".

There are several samples of this specific mindset coming from Enter, Pyrrha, Map Wolf and Hectic. Among those, i'm mostly suspicious of Pyrrha and Map Wolf - there's no real reason to wait on Hectic now that he produced reads (which i mostly agree with), and i don't like talking about myself but i also produced a lot of content, although my reads have't been confirmed in any possible way. I mean, there's no reason to say i am better than anyone else, nor Hectic, until our reads flip and we're proven right or wrong. I feel like wanting to stall townread lynches is becoming a mime trend to lead lynches on mimes.

I mean, if we are to follow rauth strat, we need to lynch in {Enter, Hectic, Farkran, DDL, Venmar}. Out of these i'm townreading Enter and Hectic the most, and now that Hectic produced reads i have no reserves in giving him the peace he deserves.

VOTE: Hectic

RIP

I think it can be which is why I'm being careful with it, but notice that I'm pushing Hectic today and as soon as Venmar realized I wasn't ACTUALLY pushing him he started shading me

[Enter]

hectic flipping town would make me feel slightly more comfortable with him being town but i'd still scum read him. i'm willing to lynch him because i think a lot of people disagree with me on my read of him and i'd rather get him over with sooner rather than flip him late and then realize the whole read on the game is wrong or no lynch because we tried to push elsewhere and people were insistent that we flip venmar. i also don't want any of his posts in the thread anymore, i think a large portion of them are largely counter to what is productive and helpful for town, and i can get into this more when i get back from work tonight.

i think what will bother you the most though is that if we actually do lynch me, it's probably going to be with most people thinking i'll flip town, which i will, rather than them agreeing with you, and you'll be even more upset.

i don't know what i did to hurt you to deserve this personal tunneling but hey, i'm getting a kick out of it

I don't know why you think that I want you to flip mime. I want you to flip town.

I just also want you out of the game because I think you're detrimental to it. If you think I'm tunneling you or even personally mad at you, you've got it wrong, but as long as you're getting enjoyment out of it, keep it up!

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Like the only reason I'm even considering pushing you is the fact that I believe I could be wrong on you. If you used even the slightest bit of logic or reasoning in your posts, you'd have come to this realization (along with many others) long ago. But you don't and I can't tell if it's intentional and scummy or unintentional and you're just not helpful.

But either way I don't care. You don't get to me or piss me off. You're just a minor inconvenience.

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Like none of this is personal. I don't want you gone because I don't like you. I want you gone because if you do flip mime then we have to adjust for that very quickly.

[Enter]

hectic flipping town would make me feel slightly more comfortable with him being town but i'd still scum read him. i'm willing to lynch him because i think a lot of people disagree with me on my read of him and i'd rather get him over with sooner rather than flip him late and then realize the whole read on the game is wrong or no lynch because we tried to push elsewhere and people were insistent that we flip venmar. i also don't want any of his posts in the thread anymore, i think a large portion of them are largely counter to what is productive and helpful for town, and i can get into this more when i get back from work tonight.

i think what will bother you the most though is that if we actually do lynch me, it's probably going to be with most people thinking i'll flip town, which i will, rather than them agreeing with you, and you'll be even more upset.

i don't know what i did to hurt you to deserve this personal tunneling but hey, i'm getting a kick out of it

I legitimately dont care what you flip, tbh. you flip mime? good, I was right, and that's one more detriment out of the way. let's adjust our focus and get the rest town

you flip town? good, that's one more town lynch under our belts and one more detriment out of the way. we'll keep our focus like it is and get the rest of town

[Enter]

hey man don't be surprised (which you wont be) if im giving you resistance or think its personal when you spam post calling me detrimental, that i have literally no logic, that i am an inconvenience, and that i am just generally a horrid player or something just looking to ruin your game. you clearly have a vendetta against me, personal or not, and i think you're too thick skulled to see it.

i would point out that your posting style, which is almost entirely focused on me, definitely is tunneling despite you claiming its not, or point out that you definitely do think im mimey so you definitely do want me to flip mime to validate yourself, but you've proven to be too much of a fucking grandstanding twit that throws fucking spam tantrums about me every few pages. consider this the last time i address you in this game. you've been deliberately fucking taunting and insulting me both directly and indirectly for half this game now, and i realize ive been reciprocal in return because of it, especially in this response, but you clearly understand you have a tendency to do this based on your signature, im done indulging you, and you can kindly fuck off with your "oh i want him dead regardless of alignment cause hes useless and the gamestate benefits regardless, i hope he's okay with me demeaning him like that" bullshit.

i think you're projecting and it's funny

[Enter]

this started (at least in my opinion) when you assumed i took a stancce on you that i didn't really have
and then you made posts based on assumptions of my opinoiin of you which were incorrect
and now you're flying into a fit of rage trying to be passive aggressive over literally nothing

if you're so upset just go do something else for a bit, think about it and come back

but you're seriously only gonna make yourself angrier if you keep thinking i'm out to get you

if you for some reason reveal a pretty pro-town attitude that's not just a giant grudge against me based on your bad assumptions and fragile ego, i'll very quickly change my stance on you
you'll find i legitimately do not care much at all about you or your opinion of me, i'll do what i think is optimal to win the game for town, and you haven't shown much capacity for getting over yourself, so you're not doing a lot to help.

[Enter]

don't replace in thread

[Enter]

that's a new rule, btw -- you're supposed to message the mod

also just for future reference (this won't really apply for my good, this is my las game of mafia w/ exception of team mafia) i think you let your emotions get a hold of you. i think you were too worried about making sure you had control of the game and you aligned the people you didn't like and disagreed with as enemies (mimes) and the people you liked as town and i think that's a flaw. i think you care more about feeling good (w/ reference being you want me to feel bad when you flip town) than yo udo winning the game and i think because of that you frequently made your evidence match your conclusion. i also think you believe using big boy words like "tunnel" makes you sound smarter or more persuasive, and i very much think that's not useful. i think at this point words like that have lost almost all of their weight and people are very quickly to fall off. describing exactly what it is that you think is wrong is often more useful because words like that are misused so often that it doesn't make sense anymoree/

btw you misused the word "tunnel"

anyways, good luck out there and have fun. you prolly have potential, i think we just got off to a bad start. it happens

[Enter]

people falling off meaning people not really listen to you when you talk

i guess what i'm saying is i see a lot of people use wrodss that used to mean something (or maybe never REALLY did) like "tunnel" and then other players see that and dismiss it because they've seen words like tunnel describe so many things that it doesn't really mean anything anymore

that said, i hope you get better and your future mafia games are a lot more fun. sorry it went down this way

[Enter]

also, just for the record, i don't have an anger problem, but it's bullshit like in #514, the inability of a person to admit that they helped instigate the rage, that really sets anger-prone people off. your inability to understand that your posting style specifically taunts and baits me, calling me detrimental and dumb, and then not having the foresight to know when to show restraint when someone gets upset, is why i became upset and am content to just replace out rather than play with you.

PEdit: actually fuck you, i hate passive aggressive, self-centered people like you

you're still projecting

also why are you posting after you ask to replace out

[Enter]

like you read me like you would read yourself and i think that's why you're so pissed, lol

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i think you misinterpreted some post of mine as some personal attack and it spiraled. it happens. but you will get a lot better when you realize you're doing all of the things you're accusing me of doing rn

[Enter]

don't get me wrong, i did get kinda personal eventually, but it wassn't until after you had already been doing it, iirc

[Enter]

also i don't think i intentionally instigated anything. if you got mad, that's on you

[Enter]

Stealing page top to post some thoughts.

Ideally the Venmar slot will be more sortable now, but in case he isn't, I'm still in favor of flipping that slot sooner rather than later based on my previous read of the game.
Pyrrha might have me somewhat pocketed, but I've liked her approach a lot this game, so I'm in favor of flipping her at some point.
Creature seems to care mostly about making sure he's flipped, so I'm hesitant to do away with that slot. I did like his reads from earlier, though. This post specifically.

Pine, Phyrra and Gyro seem most likely the mime team

Creature, talk about why Pyrrha?

DDL seems interesting - I've rather gut scum read him, but these posts seem to come from town:

Spoiler:

i don't think ill get enough people townreading me so i don't particularly feel like vanity-ing

My thoughts, I tr both Hectic, DDL but would prefer they stay around awhile longer, DDL more than Hectic, so I guess that would leave Venmar and Farkran, I guess. I had doubts on Venmar but after Rauth flip, I’m leaning town on him. I’m okay with either being the next lynch.

Why do you want me to stay? I'm putting in epsilon effort this game.

i don't feel like responding to all the stuff ive missed so here's my reads list. sheep me


town:

me
wake
hectic
drdolittle

prob town:

pyrrha
gyro (mostly for how he voted for me)

mime:

enter
gamma

needs sorting

farkran (i don't know, i'm leaning both ways)
creature (leaning prob town but could see this being mime)
map wolf (is mostly just fluff. if this is mime its for trying to coast, but could also just be coasting town.)
pine hasn't posted??

I am not mime. If I was, I'd be doing a terrible job. I just have no idea how I want to approach this game.

This is a v v town mentality

I know almost nothing about Gamma, my read on them is effectively null.
Pine won't be lynched as long as he refuses to speak, I think
I admit I've mostly been skimming Farkran's posts, but I do intend to catch up on them at some point.

I think there's honestly a relatively high likelihood there's only one mime on the side of the players that volunteered to stay, so that makes me somewhat hesitant to lynch Farkran and Venmar (the two who seemed most hesitant to join). Venmar, I think, only joined so he could get that passive-aggressive comment in, and he might have been a mime letting his emotions get control of him, but I think there's a lot of support for the argument that if he was a mime he would have been a lot more controlled than he was, so I'm really not sure.

[Enter]

If Venmar and Farkran both flip town, I think we just lynch the rest of my group (excluding me) and then lynch vig and then win

[Enter]

VOTE: gobbledygook

[Enter]

goobles were you town?

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eh nvm i think it's obv from his post then

[Enter]

We can win w/o lynching me.
If we push me or I allow anyone to push me, then I'm no longer confirmed to not be a mime. In this scenario, I could have easily just accounted for the fact that people would push me if I did this and thus played that way, and for these reasons I'm technically a bad lynch (I think).

VOTE: DDL

DDL is likely town but slightly more likely to be a mime than Farkran, and for this reason I'd rather him lynched first just so we can have time to go back, reread, and adjust.
I'm also willing to lynch Farkran today.

[Enter]

@chk

I claimed to be a mime at the beginning of the game and I don't intend to be lynched ever, with the purpose of clearing myself as town so that I can help other lynched along.

Rautherdir was inspired by this and had half of the player base request not to be lynched before revealing the following master plan that we've been following loosely. So far there has been no real resistance to the plan and everyone that has volunteered to not flip has flipped town.

I didn't notice Hectic volunteering. The group is me, Enter, Venmar, Farkran, Hectic, and DrDolittle. There are now four possibilities. Either 0, 1, 2, or 3 mimes are in the group that volunteered. The game is now divided into three groups, the vig, the group that volunteered, and everyone else.

What's going to happen next, is we're going to ignore what I said earlier about not lynching in that group. The vig is going to shoot someone. Anyone except themselves. And as long as there aren't 2 mimes in that group then town wins.

If the vig shoots town, then the lynch will be in the group the vig shot in. If the vig shoots a mime, then the lynch will be in the group the vig didn't shoot.
On every future day, if the previous day's lynch was on town then you'll lynch in the same group that player was in. If the previous day's lynch was on a mime then you'll lynch in the other group.
Once there are the same number of town and mimes, not including the vig, lynch the vig, and get a town victory.

[Enter]

You have to actually read the post I quoted for it to make sense, lol.

[Enter]

Also you shouldn't have to worry about lynching me. As long as DDL, Farkran, and Wake flip town, we just win.

[Enter]

I think if there are no mimes in one of the groups, the one I'm in is the one with the much higher likelihood to have town.

I think it's quite possible that mimes are being patient and waiting for town to start freaking out about how few mimes we're hitting.

[Enter]

I think getting paranoid of the numbers is the enemy of town right now. If you have a legitimate scum read on DDL or Farkran, say so now, but TBH if one of them doesn't flip scum we straight up win.

[Enter]

Sure, sounds good to me. I have absolutely no intention of being lynched regardless of your intention, so this makes no difference - it was likely a waste of time for you to read my ISO. Request you vote DDL, though.

[Enter]

I want to go, but I won't because it violates the integrity of my claim.

Why do you want to know who this girl is?

[Enter]

It's the girl from Twice - What is Love? who plays pretty much all the male roles from the movies referenced in the M/V. This image specifically is when they reference the dance scene from La La Land.

[Enter]

I don't know that I will actually stop laughing if the game was as simple as "have people ask to not be lynched and then lynch those players"

[Enter]

If we lynch town today, Wake just needs to shoot town and then lynch him and we win.

[Enter]

Dude, just vote yourself.

[Enter]

That isn't even close to an argument. If you flip town, the game is over. Wake shoots Farkran or literally just whatever player he believes is the towniest and then we lynch him and win. If you flip town the game is out of my hands.

[Enter]

Paranoia is the enemy of town right now. Players trying to push fear have the highest likelihood to be mimes. If you believe someone we are about to lunch is a mime, make a better argument for a different player, don't just try and fearmonger people out of doing anything -- that's so anti-town.

[Enter]

The third and final hope in the entire lack of argument you're pushing right now is that I won't be lynched. Even if I power lynch mimes after you leave, I will lose if I'm a mime, because even if it gets down to the last three players for lywin, I will not vote for myself and someone else will be lynched in my stead. The stance I'm taking is unwinnable as a mime.

[Enter]

Quit panicking and think this through. I'm not going to lose a game that's practically already won just because everyone decided to second guess themselves

[Enter]

The third and final hole in the entire lack of argument you're pushing right now is that I won't be lynched. Even if I power lynch mimes after you leave, I will lose if I'm a mime, because even if it gets down to the last three players for lywin, I will not vote for myself and someone else will be lynched in my stead. The stance I'm taking is unwinnable as a mime.

Ebwop

[Enter]

Well considering that slot was lynched and flipped town, I think most people are likely to agree with you, but I doubt you'll get very far with that.

[Enter]

If we lynch town today, Wake just needs to shoot town and then lynch him and we win.

Not quite
One more is needed

I see.

[Enter]

I'm ok with being lynched, I guess. It's just that I know myself to be town and I think I'm at least somewhat capable of making sure that we do relatively solid town things the rest of the game if I'm not lynched. Also I prefer to lynch in order from people I think are less likely to be town to people I think are more likely to be town - this leads to lynches staying relatively easy to get through nearer to the end of the game when I expect to see more panic. Also I fear that if I'm lynched now, certain players won't get lynched or shot like DDL, who I'm pretty sure is likely just town. If we lynch him first, I'm pretty certain that between me and Farkran we have no mimes. I could be wrong on Farkran, but I think that possibility is small. If we lynch me right now, people could push Wake to shoot Farkran next and then push for a scummy player to get killed instead of DDL (or DDL could flip scum) and then we have to do a lot more sorting without the help of myself and other players that came off as more strongly town earlier.

For this reason, if you insist on lynching me now, please lynch DDL next, then shoot farkran, and lynch Wake. I think this is the path to winning. If DDL flips scum, be VERY CAREFUL about who you lynch/shoot - there is going to be a very very high proportion of scum to town and some of the more reasonable sounding players will likely be scum (and better at convincing you to lynch their buddy). Sit and think about the arguments made, what people are actually saying, and lynch based on what makes sense, not what feels good. You might have to dig deep, this game has been pretty easy so far, but if DDL flips scum it will get very very difficult very very quickly.

[Enter]

Good luck, guys/

[Enter]

i'm not extending this past what i need to

VOTE: Enter

Now I've self-voted as town. Guess I have to end my campaign against it. :/

TL;DR for last post: Lynch DDL first, then shoot Farkran, lynch Wake. Explanation in my last posts.

[Enter]

if you need another town lynch, Pyrrha is doing a pretty good job as coming off towny, IMO

[Enter]

We've got this in the bag. Just don't panic.

[Enter]

If Enter is town I think:

we lynch someone we're less sure is town (second top remaining townread)
if town, we have Wake88 shoot the one we're most sure is town (top remaining town read)
if town, we lynch Wake88 and win

Enter, give us your:

Top townread (to be shot by Wake88):
Second top townread (to be lynched next):

i'm not extending this past what i need to

VOTE: Enter

Now I've self-voted as town. Guess I have to end my campaign against it. :/

TL;DR for last post: Lynch DDL first, then shoot Farkran, lynch Wake. Explanation in my last posts.

[Enter]

It's not like you're just skimming the early posts and reading the most recent ones, it's like you're absolutely not reading my posts at all, lol.

My post before that one pretty much explains in detail the thought process you used there and why it's a good one to use, lol.

[Enter]

Also just gonna casually state that it's not irregular for scum to not pay attention to what people are actually saying and then just post generally solid town statements like certain unnamed players are doing because it doesn't matter to them, they just need to live and look town.

[Enter]

i mean in general
in this game they want to die and look town

[Enter]

idk, I'm planning to just lynch DDL next and have Wake88 shoot Farkran as Enter told

Idk
The game has been going really well up to here, where’s the resistance?
Also I still want that read on me
Only person exempt is Wake

You, creature, and chk have all provided resistance

[Enter]

It's almost like I said that would happen. Lol

[Enter]

I really wish I hadn't been lynched when I did. I had my doubts about Buki but I didn't want to try and play a game I wasn't alive for, but oh well.

[Enter]

Farkran, my b

[Enter]

Oof. I'm sorry.

[Enter]

Mod will you fix my comment if you get the chance

[Enter]

I really wish I hadn't been lynched when I did. I had my doubts about Buki but I didn't want to try and play a game I wasn't alive for, but oh well.

Aw, why did you doubt me? I mean, were you townreading me less than someone in the non-volunteers group?

Outside of Venmar, you had the shadiest acceptance to the no-lynch list. That's really the biggest reason.