Mini 626 - Crew vs. Pigs - GAME OVER!!

[Ennui2778]

Soudns true to me.

[Kison]

Dark Dude, can you be killed in the endgame?

[Matin]

As true as it could be it also could be scum trying to gain the towns trust.

I would like to know how everyone feels about the role claim atleast for the time being, opinions are always allowed to be changed on new information.

I will start and say I think its true. Next?

I will also believe him, but it doesn't make sense to me for him to claim it.

Isn't the value of his role the potential wasted night kill? Also, now the cop may be tempted to investigate him sooner rather then later, meaning we just wasted an investigation attempt if he's telling the truth.

On the suspicious side, what if he's some kind godfather character who turns up innocent in an investigation? He could've just created a nice little home for himself where he can't be lynched without calling his bluff and can now muddy the waters if we go a night without a kill. Not to mention that later on down the road he will likely be able to claim his early boldness resulted in an investigation yet no guilty result..

As someone else said, I can't see scum doing something like this right out of the gate, so I'm inclined to believe him, but it seems like we traded a little bit of information (non vanilla roles) for bigger potential downside.

[darkdude]

Rule 10 rejects the use of codes like cryptography to make breadcrumbs, not traditonal breadcrumbs. I'm sorry if that was unclear.

I didn't know what the precise defeinition of breadcrumb was.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... Breadcrumb

The example in there used a simple code, so I thought it was not allowed.

I didn't want to start dropping tells that I'm bulletproof because I find that more often than not tells go either unnoticed or misinterpreted.

Dark Dude, can you be killed in the endgame?

Well it doesn't say any exceptions apply to my ability. of course this doesn't mean there aren't any exceptions, but I assume my power stays the same unless some other role affects it.

Isn't the value of his role the potential wasted night kill? Also, now the cop may be tempted to investigate him sooner rather then later, meaning we just wasted an investigation attempt if he's telling the truth.

To be honest I didn't consider much the other side of investigating. I only thought about possibly dropping cop tells to lure scum into attacking me (which I scrapped because I didn't think tells would be effective unless I was suspiciously blunt). I didn't think about possibly getting a cop to waste an investigation, sorry.

I actually think I have a good chance of soaking up a night kill. When I decided to claim I considered WIFOM as an insentive for scum to still attack.

And if I were godfather...well I don't know, there's always "what if's". I can't really object to that.

[Ghyrt]

As true as it could be it also could be scum trying to gain the towns trust.

I would like to know how everyone feels about the role claim atleast for the time being, opinions are always allowed to be changed on new information.

I will start and say I think its true. Next?

I think its true as well.

I also think you may be feigning comfort. You've made four posts and have tried to facilitate discussion. I think you may be compensating for a tendency to lurk.

FoS: raider8169

[chenhsi]

I think darkdude is probably telling the truth, but I am still suspicous of him.

[cicero]

Day One Vote Count 1

[/b]

raider8169[2] (Matin, Kison)
Cubsfan4ever[1] (raider8169)
Scattered[1] (Ting =))
ting =)[1] (Cass)
Cass[1] (Forbiddenlight)


Not Voting[6] (chenhsi, Cubsfan4ever, Scattered, darkdude, Ghyrt, Ennui2778)

With 12 Alive 7 will lynch

[darkdude]

I also think you may be feigning comfort. You've made four posts and have tried to facilitate discussion. I think you may be compensating for a tendency to lurk.

I think if I were scum his post would have been a common mistake for a partner-crime . Trying to see if everyone could accept something as the truth.

But I don't see anything wrong with his opening posts. How else would you start a game? Assuming people don't jsut start off claiming like I did :p .

[darkdude]

I meant partner-IN-crime.

[raider8169]

As true as it could be it also could be scum trying to gain the towns trust.

I would like to know how everyone feels about the role claim atleast for the time being, opinions are always allowed to be changed on new information.

I will start and say I think its true. Next?

I think its true as well.

I also think you may be feigning comfort. You've made four posts and have tried to facilitate discussion. I think you may be compensating for a tendency to lurk.

FoS: raider8169

A tendency for lurking? If anything I have a problem with posting too much.

Thats cool though. I would like to see you start up some conversations because I am too busy lurking.

[Ghyrt]

I also think you may be feigning comfort. You've made four posts and have tried to facilitate discussion. I think you may be compensating for a tendency to lurk.

I think if I were scum his post would have been a common mistake for a partner-crime . Trying to see if everyone could accept something as the truth.

But I don't see anything wrong with his opening posts. How else would you start a game? Assuming people don't jsut start off claiming like I did :p .

What I left out of my FoS was that he was facilitating discussion

unnecessarily

. With something as significant as your claim, people would have given their opinions without being asked. This was a red flag for me because it reminded me of time when I was scum and did a similar thing. Still, I only think it warranted an FoS, because for all I know, raider8169 might just be that kind of person.

[Ghyrt]

A tendency for lurking? If anything I have a problem with posting too much.

Thats cool though. I would like to see you start up some conversations because I am too busy lurking.

My point was that if you

were

scum, you might be worried that you would have a natural tendency to lay low, and, as a result, compensate by posting too much. Of course, if you post this much in every game, I suppose mine would be a mute point.

[darkdude]

What I left out of my FoS was that he was facilitating discussion unnecessarily.

Wait, are you talking about post #23 or the ones he made before that?

[Ghyrt]

<snip>Wait, are you talking about post #23 or the ones he made before that?

Post #23

[darkdude]

Yes, post #23 was sort of out of place.

Ones before that were perfectly fine IMHO.

[raider8169]

I have never been part of someone claiming this early. I wasnt sure if people would say if they believed it or not.

[darkdude]

I have never been part of someone claiming this early. I wasnt sure if people would say if they believed it or not.

But didn't you think that they would obviously state that eventually?

[raider8169]

I have never been part of someone claiming this early. I wasnt sure if people would say if they believed it or not.

But didn't you think that they would obviously state that eventually?

Eventually, sure. That would of waited until there was a lynch case against you. I just wanted to know now.

[darkdude]

That would of waited until there was a lynch case against you. I just wanted to know now.

If I were about to get lynched then obviously the majority of the players do not believe that it's true then .

[raider8169]

I was leaning more towards one or 2 people started a case hoping to get a bandwagon going.

At least I see your point and agree it wasn't needed.

[Matin]

Isn't the value of his role the potential wasted night kill? Also, now the cop may be tempted to investigate him sooner rather then later, meaning we just wasted an investigation attempt if he's telling the truth.

To be honest I didn't consider much the other side of investigating. I only thought about possibly dropping cop tells to lure scum into attacking me (which I scrapped because I didn't think tells would be effective unless I was suspiciously blunt). I didn't think about possibly getting a cop to waste an investigation, sorry.

I actually think I have a good chance of soaking up a night kill. When I decided to claim I considered WIFOM as an insentive for scum to still attack.

And if I were godfather...well I don't know, there's always "what if's". I can't really object to that.

I don't mind it too much, it's probably better then the usual random voting stage, or at least more interesting. Get the old brain working and all, but I suspect this will end up being worse for the town then better the more I think about it.

You have a role, and it's main benefit to the town appears to be getting the scum to waste a night lynch. At this point, assuming the scum believe you, it's biggest benefit is to you and you alone

As stated, we did learn that the mafia may have some extra powers, but on the down side, in addition to the potential wasted investigation, you just reduced the pool of players the mafia have to target for a power role kill by 1, assuming they believe you and you are telling the truth of course..









If you aren't lieing, they have 1 less person to pcik

[Ghyrt]

It seems there's really not much reason to have made this claim. The more I think about it, the more suspicious it seems, but it smells more like a judgement error than an outright lie. There's also the possibility that he's a doctor, cop or survivor (can there be survivors?) who's lying to protect himself.

[darkdude]

Well see I was inspired by this

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... e19#892328

To me I think I made enough WIFOM for scum to target me anyways. It doesn't really matter whether the scum think it's true or not; the more convincing the more they doubt themselves...it's the trap of WIFOM!

Maybe because in my mind I always think that if I were scum I would defeinitely attack anyways just to probe the possibilities.

In addition I believe not everything is decided by night actions. If we can get good scumhunting going during Day, which I hope my claim helps with, then it also increases our chances. Not everything relies on "Oh scum has X% chance to kill power role now". Albeit the chances are a factor. I don't think my claiming would be that negative to town. If I was some other sort of important role claiming wouldn't work as it ties up the potential doctor, or I would die.

[Cass]

Wow, interesting. I am... neutral about this claim, 50/50. I can see two situations that make this claim equally useful.

1) It's true. Nice way to confuse the mafia, and at least theoretically helpful to the town.

2) He is a godfather (or whatever the 'pig' equivalent is called). There is no way to disprove his claim (except lynching), cops will find him innocent (wasting a night action

and

confirming him) and town will be reluctant to lynch him. And this role is not very likely to be counterclaimed, so sounds like it could be worth the risk.

I do not think he has a different power role. It wouldn't be worth the risk of a counterclaim or nightkill. (I suppose he could be a survivor who likes risks )

What makes me slightly suspicious of his motives is his claim that he "didn't think about the cop wasting an investigation". Because if I would for whatever reason decide to roleclaim first page, I would have considered all such possibilities.
Still, I get town vibes from his posts. He sounds honest. So: undecided, for now.

[raider8169]

*snip*
As stated, we did learn that the mafia may have some extra powers,

What extra powers would those be?