Mini #553: Over!

[Matt_S]

I've got a question of my own. Guardian: Are you going to track ting?

[Matt_S]

EBWOP: assuming we don't lynch you for some reason, that is.

[destructor]

unNK able townie?

Does that really make any more sense than tracker, especially considering that neither the SK nor godfather had such immunity?

That I'm unnightkillable is why I thought it was very unlikely that this game would have three investigative roles - it would be insanely unbalanced. I think considering three killers in the game, an unnightkillable town role makes sense. I agree, though, that the SK and Godfather not having that immunity doesn't really line up, but that's the role I got.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

And Bab, you've still got some questions I asked that you have to answer.

Would you mind repeating them for me? I must have totally missed them.

[destructor]

Stuff from this post.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

The problem is going out and not being subtle here will help the scum right now.
It's very unfortunate that you don't understand. If you can, re-read your posts and what I said and try to understand again.

I still don't get it. If it's going to help scum, why bring it up?

I brought it up because I thought that no one had a good idea of understanding it except for you. I was talking about how you were soft-claiming. I personally don't like soft-claims and think a full-claim or a full non-claim benefits the town the most in most situations.

I didn't get around to reading them, no. Why do you ask? Do you think I should?

yes. Today you're locked into voting for guardian so it doesn't quite matter, but please read them over the next night (if you're alive).

Also, this:

Bab, if I recall correctly, you were one of those pushing a Guardian lynch hardest yesterday. Even if you say you're "so close in the middle", how is it that Guardian's tenuous claim somehow tips me above him?

because his claim fit well with previous actions. Also, I didn't realize we were at LYLO so my vote was made more as a statement of my beliefs rather than a vote to get you out.

[destructor]

You've said both Guardian's and my claim 'fit' with our play. Why?

I'm also uncomfortable about how you've asked us both to post what are more of less defences without actually demonstrating why neither of us weren't playing as our role would have been. That is, what I wrote was a defence to an attack that never existed.

It was also an odd request given that you even said our claims 'fit'.

I was talking about how you were soft-claiming.

When did I soft-claim? What did you think I was soft-claiming?

[ting =)]

I was going to quickly skim through and post a short reply before I sleep, but there's more posts than I expected.

I'll do it tomorrow.

[Guardian]

I've got a question of my own. Guardian: Are you going to track ting?

It seems to me that saying who I am going to track beforehand is a great way to get that person killed, or me killed.

Hm, that might not be such a bad thing.

Yeah, actually, I could promise to track ting =) if that makes sense to you guys. ting =) dying as town would be revolutionary for me, and if I die, then there is lots of WIFOM around ting =) but at least you can't mislynch me.

[Matt_S]

I don't want you to promise to track anyone. I just want you to think about who you'd track. I'm getting largely uncomfortable with six total players. Given Guardian's claimed role, I'm thinking about a no lynch.

[Guardian]

well, I don't see any point in no lynching, as I'd be really surprised if there is yet ANOTHER power role, and if we don't lynch destructor he'll obviously make the kill, so there won't be anything new for me to track.

[Matt_S]

well, I don't see any point in no lynching, as I'd be really surprised if there is yet ANOTHER power role, and if we don't lynch destructor he'll obviously make the kill, so there won't be anything new for me to track.

I'm more interested in seeing the death. Any trackings are a bonus.

Of course, now I have to ask why you'd be willing to track ting, and who you were planning to track anyways.

[Guardian]

If destructor was lynched today, then the remaining mafia would have to kill. Catching ting =) doing that, or having ting =) not do it, or die and thus not be scum, would all be useful developments.

Who was I planning to track? BAB or Sethaniel or ting =). Seeing ting =) not kill or either of them kill would be most telling.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

You've said both Guardian's and my claim 'fit' with our play. Why?

both you and Guardian did not explain yourselves the way I saw your claims fit. This means I may be reading too much into things. It had to do with both of your reaction's to a mass-claim. I need to reread again to make sure.

I'm also uncomfortable about how you've asked us both to post what are more of less defences without actually demonstrating why neither of us weren't playing as our role would have been. That is, what I wrote was a defence to an attack that never existed.

I'm sorry you're uncomfortable.

It was also an odd request given that you even said our claims 'fit'.

yet it helped me think and I'll be reporting my thoughts soon.

I was talking about how you were soft-claiming.

When did I soft-claim? What did you think I was soft-claiming?[/quote]
AGH! I never wrote notes down. two weeks ago it seemed like you were phrasing your posts to make sure you didn't refer to yourself as a vanilla or as a power role. At least I

think

that was it.
I thought you were soft-claiming a power role kind of, but I just looked over your posts and totally didn't see what I saw two weeks ago.

[ting =)]

unNK able townie?

Does that really make any more sense than tracker, especially considering that neither the SK nor godfather had such immunity?

that makes sense.

I thought I could have been a likely nightkill, which failing, would have screwed scum over pretty badly and helped confirm me. I was hoping someone might have picked up on this when I said claiming would probably help scum more than town.

but so does this.

The claim was not as helpful as I thought it would be, in the end it still boils down to who do we trust more.

Des' claim is pretty elaborate, Guardian's is the simpler of the two.

[Matt_S]

Who was I planning to track? BAB or Sethaniel or ting =). Seeing ting =) not kill or either of them kill would be most telling.

Hmm...

Well, this is pretty consistent with your earlier stance. Now the trouble is that the case on destructor is that you tracked him and that he lurked. The former is a matter of trust. The latter is ironic considering Zyrconium's 0 posts, Imat's 31 posts, and Shamrock's 6 posts. If the result came from almost anyone else, the choice would be obvious. Considering that I'd probably be the one killed for real this time, a no lynch probably wouldn't help. I'm still leaning towards a Guardian lynch, with the buddy probably being Sethaniel.

[Guardian]

I'm still leaning towards a Guardian lynch, with the buddy probably being Sethaniel.

Hmm. Why does this seem plausible to you?

In speculating at who could be my partner, I think you've struck upon a point in my favor, that maybe I can use to help convince you guys des is the scum here -- who would make sense to you as my partner?

destructor? if so, lynch him not me.
ting =)? lol?
Matt_S? doubt he's scum.
sethaniel? my top suspect as soon as I replaced in?
bab? Maybe this looks plausible to you, but I see no particular reason to believe this.

I think I've made a pretty strong case for why it is plausible to believe ting =) is destructor's partner. There's no one who makes sense to such a degree for me. Food for thought.

[Guardian]

I'm still leaning towards a Guardian lynch, with the buddy probably being Sethaniel.

Hmm. Why does this seem plausible to you?

In speculating at who could be my partner, I think you've struck upon a point in my favor, that maybe I can use to help convince you guys des is the scum here -- who would make sense to you as my partner?

destructor? if so, lynch him not me.
ting =)? lol?
Matt_S? doubt he's scum.
sethaniel? my top suspect as soon as I replaced in?
bab? Maybe this looks plausible to you, but I see no particular reason to believe this.

I think I've made a pretty strong case for why it is plausible to believe ting =) is destructor's partner. There's no one who makes sense to such a degree for me. Food for thought.

[Matt_S]

Again, the where you bussed me really sticks in my mind. I'm getting a lot of vibes that remind me of your scum incarnation rather than your town incarnation. I can't give specific instances, but I can ask this. What would you have done if massive wasn't at L-1 when he claimed?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

So Guardian, why don't you tell us who you think destructor's partner is?
So Destructor, why don't you tell us who you think Guardian's partner is?


Guardian, I don't get why Ting and Matt_S can't be your scum partner. A more elaborate explanation is necessary.

Quick note: I will be V/LA from the 12th-19th again, but I'm probably going to make a decision before then. I will have more access than I did the last two weeks I was out before. And after that I'm not going away for the rest of the summer.

[ting =)]

I think I've made a pretty strong case for why it is plausible to believe ting =) is destructor's partner. There's no one who makes sense to such a degree for me.

Er, no.

Your case was just that I believed destructor more than you. I hence disagree with the words, 'strong', 'plausible', and 'believe' in your post.

If you're going to call strawman, then point me to your case. Or a summary of it.

sethaniel? my top suspect as soon as I replaced in?

When you first said that, you made a case on both massive and seth. I thought that if you were scum, massive was your partner who you were distancing with, and that seth was town who you were trying to mislynch. I'm now thinking that if you're scum, besides the possibility of you bussing des, maybe I got the two switched.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

oops sorry I forgot you mentioned that ting could be destructor's partner earlier.

[Guardian]

Again, the where you bussed me really sticks in my mind. I'm getting a lot of vibes that remind me of your scum incarnation rather than your town incarnation. I can't give specific instances,

I'm pretty sure you are town. This kind of argument saddens me though. It IS your decision to make, but I can't respond in any meaningful way to this... I vaguely remind you of when I was scum, in comparing it to a game where I played poorly as town? I mean... :|

but I can ask this. What would you have done if massive wasn't at L-1 when he claimed?

No thought required to answer that one: I'd have voted him immediately, revealed my information, and explained that he needed to be lynched.

[Matt_S]

Hey, this hurts me more than it hurts you.

[Guardian]

I disdain meta-ing, but since you already are:

Off the top of my head, this is a town game where I've played well, if you want to read it: viewtopic.php?t=5879.

Possibly the reason you are associating me with scum-ness is that I played normally as scum that game and badly as town. (shrug)