Large Normal 224 | Endgame

[Hectic]

Oh, and in case anyone's forgotten: This is Lylo so no hasty votes.

[Menalque]

Explain that hammer hectic

[Menalque]

I’m probably voting you like 90% of the time here so if you’re town be convincing on why town!you ever does that

[Hectic]

Dave is probably still scum for how differently he's acted this game.

[Hectic]

What do you mean? The day was coming to a close and it was pretty clear we were lynching Dolly.

[Hectic]

ah fuck this is probably right

VOTE: dolly

that's L-1

I thought you had similar thoughts after I saw this.

[Hectic]

Hmm, want to say more on this but I'll wait until Mene replies.

[Menalque]

Luca when are you back?

Why would I have posted this if I wanted day to end prematurely?

[davesaz]

Well, you could have held off on the L-1. There were more than 2 days left on the deadline.
That said, Hectic only waited about 2 hours. I was out and it was locked before I got home.
The comment that went with the hammer is pretty scummy, trying to justify by casting blame on people who might not be (and in my case weren't) even here then.

[Hectic]

Luca when are you back?

Why would I have posted this if I wanted day to end prematurely?

Good point.

@Dave: That wasn't serious shade/justification. Just joking around.

It seemed right when I did it, but perhaps it was a little premature. No reason to scumread me for it though. Dolly was almost always going to be the lynch, and scum!me had no reason to try and close the day out as fast possible.

[Hectic]

I’m probably voting you like 90% of the time here so if you’re town be convincing on why town!you ever does that

I'm pinged by Mene's confidence on this. Feels like he rearing up for another tunnel, similar to Norwee. It's also a lousy reason to suddenly flip his read on me imo.

If it is Mene, it's probably with Dave, since Dave was most widely scumread out of us 5 yesterday, so Mene would have to find another scumread that he's confident enough about so that he could convince others to lynch them over Dave.

[Menalque]

If you’re town then towncase yourself for me hectic otherwise I’m voting you

[Hectic]

Well, then you're throwing or scum. Explain why hammering slightly prematurely, when the resolution of the day would almost certainly not have changed, makes me so much scummier in your eyes.

[Reundo]

Hectic, did it not occur to you to at least wait until Luca popped back in before hammering, to see if he had anything to say / what Mena wanted to talk to him about?

[Hectic]

No, it really didn't at the time. It didn't help that Dolly asked me to hammer her as well if I wasn't going to change my mind.
It was stupid, but I fail to see how it's so scum-motivated that Mene has flipped his read and wants to vote me solely because of it. Mene and Dave is still my solve for now. Note, I haven't really done any rereading or ISOing since the start of this day.

[Hectic]

If I was really scum wanting to cut discussion short before Luca could come back, would it really be worth all the negative attention to hammer early like that?

No, and it wouldn't even change anything because Dolly was definitely gonna be lynched. My premature hammer is just an error of judgement and nothing more. And Mene trying to paint it as much more scum-motivated than it should be is scummy.

[Hectic]

I'll probably be voting Mene now, but will do some rereading and wait for Dunns to chip in before I make my decision.

[Hectic]

What are your thoughts on remaining scum, Ruendo?

[davesaz]

@Dave: That wasn't serious shade/justification. Just joking around.

I don't have any reason to question it being a joke, but I do have some trouble distinguishing that kind of thing.

[Hectic]

Fair enough. I honestly just thought it was the right time to hammer her, and I was performing the statua quo. I didn't think I had to justify the vote, so I just joked around as I hammered her.

[Hectic]

What's your solve, Dave?

[Hectic]

I'm pretty much writing off Ruendo as town here, but maybe that's a bad idea.

[davesaz]

This is quite the quandry.

I had trouble with Hectic's reaction to Dolly's (lack of) reaction to the protective soft. The way I remember it he seemed kinda wishy-washy on the lack of reaction, but also unwilling to either confirm or deny the soft. But then still willing to follow through with the lynch. I kinda agreed that Dolly's claimed targets were pretty oddball and the kind of things that scum would say to keep a fakeclaim alive. On the flip side of that, I tend to think err on the side of caution when working with a claimed doc, the scum kinda need to kill it eventually anyway. Don't know if this is scum squeezing through a lynch on the doc, or just town who doesn't take the same cautious approach that I do with claimed PRs.

Menalque has been doing a lot of pushing on stuff that has turned out to be wrong. Is that just town being wrong, or highly successful manipulation? I have a blind spot for scum who act really town and it has a tendency to lead to thrown games. I'd have to re-read a bunch of stuff to find out.

Dunn pushed so hard (relative to Dunn in general) on there being too many protectives but I don't remember if he just paid it lip service or if he acted on that push. If he really thought there were too many then he should have been there trying to get one of the claims lynched. It could be a fake protest though, the logic he was using to say too many protectives was suspect at best -- not all of them are active at once and with a half vig in play town benefits from an extra half protective. It's a nice cozy rocking chair in any case, I could totally see this as being scum.

Reundo has seemed quite reasonable pretty much all the time, but I'd need to re-read to see if it's an active reasonable or passive.

[davesaz]

I think that boils down to Dunn must be scum regardless.

[Reundo]

Hectic, I'm not entirely convinced you're town here. I'd think as town you'd be more likely to think through the implications before hammering Dolly, especially considering Luca was going to be NK'ed 99% of the time. I agree that Mena's assertion is a bit too strong, but I do think your hammer was more scum than town motivated and at the very least it was bad town play, and I don't think Mena is scummy solely because of it. I only really see him opening this way today as scum if the team's him/davesaz, which I'm not feeling atm.