Large Normal 225 | Creature Writes Shitty Flavor - Game over

[Dunnstral]

I like the flavor blurbs

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: MariaR

She will be either hidden scum or drive town off a cliff, perfect policy lynch

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dolly Parton

[Dunnstral]

I read more alignment from people who want Flavor gone then those joke voting you, Dolly.

I wasn't joking

[Dunnstral]

Actually, the rule says "Do not publicly threaten to replace out of a game" and "If you do need to replace out, do not publicly discuss your reasons or anything else", and "PM your game moderator if you are considering replacing out".

As rb is neither threatening to replace out, discussing his reasons (though "anything else" is pretty vague), nor even considering the act of replacing out (asking to replace out isn't the same as considering replacing out)... he should be fine, under the rules, except of course the vague "anything else".

Onto the topic of the game: I'm fine with Dolly from recent events

UNVOTE: Dolly Parton

It's funny you keep pushing me for my actions in an

ONGOING GAME

and you have

NO IDEA

if that gambit worked or not.

This probably shouldn't be happening from either side, but I don't like rb alignment-wise if what is said here is true

VOTE: rb

[Dunnstral]

I'm fine with Dolly from recent events

what are they?

Her posts

When I first read this I thought she said "a few posts that shouldn't even be a comment right now", which is why I interpreted it as having something to do with rules. I don't have an op

She commented that because she thinks flavor leaf was coming to too hasty of a conclusion on rb

[Dunnstral]

I hate trying to catch up, and I typically play on limited access.

I also hate dealing with people driving themselves crazy with paranoia, and having to deal with that.

So, I'm claiming. I am full Town Watcher.

The only reason I'm claiming now is because I haven't had time to catch up, and the moment I post anything people will start pointing fingers for no good reason. People keep conflating activity level with alignment, and I'm sick of it. I'm tired of being mislynched for not being very active.

I'm assuming a protective role will help me tonight if not, well, that sucks.

Was anybody voting you??

[Dunnstral]

You claimed full watcher, not sure what else to say

[Dunnstral]

I don't feel there's much to talk about

I don't believe flavor's claim

[Dunnstral]

Why should we be focusing on LUV/JV?

[Dunnstral]

I'd rather you explained it to me

[Dunnstral]

*their

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: MariaR

bad reads

[Dunnstral]

So are you folks not at all skeptical of Flavor's outlandish claim, or are you waiting for the rest of his claim before saying something? What's going on here

[Dunnstral]

Wake being lurky makes me think he is one of the guiltys

Slow down there cowboy

[Dunnstral]

I forsee lots of yelling at Wake in post game if he's town

[Dunnstral]

How are you conftown?

[Dunnstral]

Or what are you talking about

[Dunnstral]

Rabid is probably upset at the conftown

Who is conftown here?

[Dunnstral]

What you do, Dunn

I didn't target amrun.

[Dunnstral]

Took me a moment but that's a really weird post ^

[Dunnstral]

I must have missed it: What are people voting LUV for?

[Dunnstral]

How come we aren't lynching MariaR for low contributions?

[Dunnstral]

How come we aren't lynching MariaR for low contributions?

Pot meet kettle.

That's not the point

[Dunnstral]

Even she thinks we should vote her

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand why people are complaining about VCs, for the record

[Dunnstral]

Luv's claim makes sense - note how they voted MariaR after I voted MariaR

I was just in a game where Dolly didn't protect the claimed town investigative who just got a guilty the previous day, as town doctor - in case that helps anyone read her

As for this game's actions:

If we have a protective that doesn't roleblock, they should target Wake (most important role)
If the protective roleblocks, like jailkeeper, they should alternate between targetting Luv or Me

We sort out Luv's claim tomorrow, if he's still alive.

Really? :lol:

None of your posts add to the game, just popping in and complaining about other people talking about you

[Dunnstral]

He didn't claim JK.

[Dunnstral]

He claims inno on me, I don't see the point in pressing him further on it today. There isn't a reason to be

that

determined to lynch Luv here over someone else today

[Dunnstral]

I'm glad you felt the need to attack me there

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Elsa jay

[Dunnstral]

I feel Dolly has more chance at flipping scum than Elsa

I feel the opposite

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Rabid Schnauzer

[Dunnstral]

I don't think there was any resistance at all, actually, just people not voting in general

[Dunnstral]

Jailkeeper on me, Watcher on LuV, any other unclaimed town protective on Wake

Thoughts?

[Dunnstral]

I'm waiting for our "investigative" to get a result. Either or at this point.

Did you jailkeep me?

[Dunnstral]

Why aren't scum killing claimed prs?

[Dunnstral]

Wake, did you get a result or were you roleblocked?

[Dunnstral]

OK, nobody else claim anything while we wait for wake to out his results - and then Elsa outs results after, and then we figure out what is going on - If wake claims roleblocked then I'll want to kill Elsa, I think scum would kill the jailkeeper last night. Plus she claimed a roleblocking role she could be scum rb instead who targeted wake

[Dunnstral]

I think your claim in response to being lynched and claiming JK looks like scum. And prs aren't dying.

[Dunnstral]

Also you didn't claim Indecisive yesterday

[Dunnstral]

Alright, I missed that. If you're town it is weird that wake is alive right now, If you're not town it makes sense though, and maybe you suspect there's a real protective out there.

[Dunnstral]

Actually Elsa, I want you to claim before Wake, there's a chance that either of you can catch the other in a lie

[Dunnstral]

No you don't, you need to claim your results, and so does Elsa

[Dunnstral]

Elsa claim your jailkeep target, before wake claims

[Dunnstral]

Frank, did you get a message last night?

[Dunnstral]

I'm not sure what the FL kill has to do with Gamma, and Zote, and me, but ok

Dunnstral, are you feeling timid at all?

I'd like you to jump in more, too.

I'm already posting

[Dunnstral]

Dolly is kind of town and the others are null

I'll talk about my reads (if any) sometime Day 3 for sure.

[Dunnstral]

FWIW I'm in a hood with Maria. She hasn't done much more there than here. But, she hasn't tried to pocket me. Still a hard null.

Not frank, and no imo, but it doesn't make them town either

[Dunnstral]

Should we kill Flavor?

No, I forgot that he crumbed mason early on. And he's right. I'm not a mason, but I am in a 2-person hood. Pairings seem to be the theme. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a PT cop, that seems trendy.

[Dunnstral]

Elsa claim your jailkeep target, before wake claims

You, like instructed.

[Dunnstral]

Just lynch Flavor Leaf please. Even if not scum we get so much info on the flip this game gets so much clearer I think.

Rabid and FL are honestly the only 2 people we should be considering lynching here.

What info did we get?

[Dunnstral]

You said you agreed that there were "multiple scum on the JV wagon"- why are you voting me?

[Dunnstral]

well if we had a JK you just risked outing them over a very silly/scummy comment that had maybe a 1% chance of working in town's favor

Well, I guess if the alleged JK really did JK Dunn last night and in turn negating LUV's claim, then we would have caught scum!LUV red handed.

(1) One man's bad town is another man's obvtown.

And besides don't you see how you totally re invent how the entire thing went down.

(2) First you say I put another JK in danger by saying things like that, then you say that I claimed JK myself. I get how my post could be read both ways but you are using both as an argument which doesn't jive with you original argument that I endangered any possible JK.

You say I'm bad at this game but only Town!you would know if I am wrong about your slot.

(3) It doesn't make me a bad player because I felt like LUV's claim should be more flushed out.

1. show of hands, who thinks Dolly is obvtown and found the JK thing to be pro-town?

2. softing jk or even outright claiming any role =/= me believing that you are that role. I never once alluded to or implied that you were actually the jailkeeper. I said you claimed it, or at least made a post so vague that you displayed an illusion of claiming it. In which case, yes, that could be harmful to the game if we had a real jk due to the way that they handle the situation. They wouldn't even have to outright CC you. Your response that somehow saying that was supposed to encourage a potential JK to come out and say "WOAH THATS CRAZY I ACTUALLY DID JAIL DUNNSTRAL LAST NIGHT" and that if such a thing happened it wouldn't be fleshed out naturally, is incredibly pompous and logically has zero merit.

3. Never once said that trying to sort LUV was a bad thing, in fact I have made it painfully obvious that it's the way you've gone about it that is total shit

Dolly and Frank both somehow misinterpreted jailkeeper so that it roleblocks the person targeting its target, instead of the person it targets. This was before Elsa claimed. Now she's claiming Alien, which is a variant of jailkeeper that does exactly that. Coincidence, or was this claim discussed in the scum pt beforehand, resulting in confusion on their parts?

[Dunnstral]

I know what a JK does. Explain how I misinterpreted.

well if we had a JK you just risked outing them over a very silly/scummy comment that had maybe a 1% chance of working in town's favor

Well, I guess if the alleged JK really did JK Dunn last night and in turn negating LUV's claim, then we would have caught scum!LUV red handed.

Fool! If JK targeted Dunn then it would've stopped Dunn's action from going through, not LUV's.

And if there was a roleblocker or JK that targeted LUV they probably would've outed themselves naturally.

[Dunnstral]

Luv says he has an inno on me (which you're now ignoring, by the way) - you say that if a jailkeeper targetted me, it would negate Luv's claim of having targeted me. Pretty clear misunderstanding of what jailkeeper does.

[Dunnstral]

if the alleged JK really did JK Dunn last night and in turn negating LUV's claim,

This is what you said though

[Dunnstral]

I mean, LUV would not got a result on Dunn had Dunn been JKd.

You're wrong.

[Dunnstral]

You're confused because Elsa claimed a variant of jailkeeper which does work the way you're describing, but you've been confused from before she claimed it in the main thread.

[Dunnstral]

I mean, LUV would not got a result on Dunn had Dunn been JKd.

You're wrong.

Doesn't a JK essentially make the target ascetic and immune to kills for the night?

Nope, what you're describing is a rolestopper. But the variant version of jailkeeper, the alien, does do that. And both you and frank are misunderstanding a very common and well understood role, and it just so happens to be that you've misunderstood it in a way that is close to what is now actually being claimed, after the fact, but what people couldn't have reasonably anticipated

[Dunnstral]

doctor, jailkeeper target, jailkeeper roleblock, roleblocker

4 potential stoppings of the mafia nk, really?

I forgot about Gamma. There is most likely a strongman then. Maybe also an even-night vig (if Luca's claim is legit) and was unsuccessful on N2.

You're lying, otherwise this quote from your previous game doesn't make any sense, because you wouldn't know what I was talking about...

[Dunnstral]

Your version of jailkeeper wouldn't protect against multiple kills, and I specifically said jailkeeper roleblock and listed them out like that - you talking about a strongman was in reference to just the roleblocker (gamma's role, NOT the JK)

[Dunnstral]

I'm pointing out that you've played in a setup with a jailkeeper before, and talked around discussion of the jailkeeper.

Your play in that game was atrocious, which is the only reason I'm not lock scum on you right now, though I'm about ready to vote you anyway

[Dunnstral]

Jailkeeper refraining from targeting Chemist on that night is acceptable. However a doctor targeting someone else other than the confirmed town is just weird. I mean i'm honored you thought i was so town you'd target me, but there was just no chance scum would want to shoot me there.

I fully take blame for my bad N2 action and I know it gave town a huge disadvantage, but it's not the sole reason for the town loss.

Another quote where Dolly responds to somebody talking about a jailkeeper. Again, your response makes less sense if you don't know what the role actually does.

[Dunnstral]

I know what a jailkeeper does, I just though it basically made the target ascetic as well as protecting from NKs and roleblocking.

Yeah. And that's the role Elsa is claiming, but there's no reason for you to have thought that this game. And I'm saying maybe she talked about her fake claim ahead of time in the mafia pt. That's why it's suspicious.

[Dunnstral]

I know what a jailkeeper does, I just though it basically made the target ascetic as well as protecting from NKs and roleblocking.

Yeah. And that's the role Elsa is claiming, but there's no reason for you to have thought that this game. And I'm saying maybe she talked about her fake claim ahead of time in the mafia pt. That's why it's suspicious.

So basically you are saying that me and elsa are scum together?

That's the assumption, yes. OR FRANK instead of you.

With that said, if frank says that he hasn't received my message, that either means that Elsa is likely town (because they used their role on me when it wouldn't make sense to as scum), or that they're both scum and frank is covering for him

[Dunnstral]

I'm not comfortable with his current activity level.

[Dunnstral]

I want you and that Elsa fool to claim your results. I have nothing to add otherwise.

Then I want Wake to claim his target

I happen to agree with him, though.

[Dunnstral]

Doesn't a JK essentially make the target ascetic and immune to kills for the night?

It doesn't look like you thought jk roleblocked here, but you added that part later:

I know what a jailkeeper does, I just though it basically made the target ascetic as well as protecting from NKs and roleblocking.

[Dunnstral]

Jailkeeper. Roleblocks. Town. Investigatives.

Same game with Dolly

[Dunnstral]

And I want Dunn to explain himself; he couldn't have sent a message if he was Alien'd.

That's what I'm trying to figure out, now stop and wait for frank to post.

[Dunnstral]

Vig claim is BS (no offense, you had to try something) but we need to sort out the other claims before we lynch it. I believe we're waiting on Frank?

I agree

[Dunnstral]

and then I

Wake

up to your claim!

Hey good one

[Dunnstral]

I don't know whether or not my action was a success.

[Dunnstral]

Wait for frank/his replacement to post first, it's kind of important to confirm elsa's role

[Dunnstral]

I'm a friendly neighbor

I targeted LUV, then Frank, then Espresso

[Dunnstral]

Dolly and Frank both somehow misinterpreted jailkeeper so that it roleblocks the person targeting its target, instead of the person it targets.

where in the actual fuck did I do that?

Right here:

2. softing jk or even outright claiming any role =/= me believing that you are that role. I never once alluded to or implied that you were actually the jailkeeper. I said you claimed it, or at least made a post so vague that you displayed an illusion of claiming it. In which case, yes, that could be harmful to the game if we had a real jk due to the way that they handle the situation. They wouldn't even have to outright CC you. Your response that somehow saying that was supposed to encourage a potential JK to come out and say "WOAH THATS CRAZY I ACTUALLY DID JAIL DUNNSTRAL LAST NIGHT" and that if such a thing happened it wouldn't be fleshed out naturally, is incredibly pompous and logically has zero merit.

[Dunnstral]

I don't understand how what I said implies a rolestop but okay

You imply that a jailkeeper on me would stop LUV from getting an inno on me.

[Dunnstral]

im a UB. There's way to much town power which means someone is lying. Most likely Elsa.

No, because elsa used their roleblock on me when they had no reason to believe I was a power role, and had reason to believe Wake/Luv were both power roles. And then mafia killed Flavor leaf - I don't think Elsa lying makes sense

[Dunnstral]

Espresso, can you confirm whether you received a friendly neighbor message from me?

[Dunnstral]

I wouldn't include neighbors in "town power"

But yes, there's too much power.

[Dunnstral]

uh, no. This is a normal game, not a large theme, you're supposed to join the hood.

[Dunnstral]

Normal Guidelines

Universal Backup (if self-aware) is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Universal Backup can be of any alignment, but it should only activate upon the first death of a power role of their own alignment. A power role in this case is any role that is not Vanilla (so not a Vanilla Townie or a Mafia Goon). Universal Backups inherit any and all modifiers, including the remaining shots of an X-Shot role.

So somebody messed up on the modding side or you're lying, though I'm leaning towards the somebody else messed up side

[Dunnstral]

Wait. I bet he's a universal backup but he's scum so he didn't inherit the town power role.

[Dunnstral]

I've played with UB a few times, and like any backup, the alignment doesn't matter, only the role.

A Universal Backup can be of any alignment, but it should only activate upon the first death of a power role of their own alignment.

[Dunnstral]

What if it's a 4 scum game since town is stacked even if luv/nero were both lying about their roles?

[Dunnstral]

Let me put this into perspective:

Because a universal backup can only grab same alignment roles, and there are provable town aligned roles in this game (friendly neighbor, normal neighbor) - Universal backup is, at minimum, a self-clearing role. Beyond that, it can grab powerful town roles like full watcher

[Dunnstral]

He has not received a role

[Dunnstral]

If he became a neighbor, Rabid Schnauzer would be alive to confirm it. I don't think there are other normal queue roles that enter existing neighborhoods like that

[Dunnstral]

A full time Watcher, a novice Neopolitan, Indesicive Alien

This alone feels unbalanced to me.

[Dunnstral]

He didn't, Rabid

is

alive to confirm it, if it had happened - which is what would make UB confirmed town (scum can't take over a town neighbor as UB)

[Dunnstral]

Did rabid claim neighbor? if no one CC's that rabid would be an IC then right? or could scum be in the hood as well?

Scum can be neighbors, he's not ic. And yes he did claim that

But then again if Nero hasn't taken over a role yet, I suppose there could be some merit to lynching the scummiest PR claim? Which I would still regard as LUV, because I'm assuming Elsa is going to get us a scum lynch today when she spills the beans.

Nero should have inherited MariaR's role when she died, as explained on the UB page

Here is exactly what a UB does:

Normal Guidelines

Universal Backup (if self-aware) is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A Universal Backup can be of any alignment, but it should only activate upon the first death of a power role of their own alignment. A power role in this case is any role that is not Vanilla (so not a Vanilla Townie or a Mafia Goon). Universal Backups inherit any and all modifiers, including the remaining shots of an X-Shot role.

[Dunnstral]

creature;s rules

It's a normal game

[Dunnstral]

A power role in this case is any role that is not Vanilla (so not a Vanilla Townie or a Mafia Goon).

[Dunnstral]

Do we even need to scumhunt or can we just win with power roles at this point?

[Dunnstral]

I didn't think about that, I didn't want my target to die. Wake is still alive and should probably still be on you so I can target you tonight

[Dunnstral]

Is it possible Scum would gamble by deliberately not killing, and so whoever Elsa would target would look Scummy?

Who cares, we may as well kill whoever elsa targeted anyway

[Dunnstral]

Gutcheck, it's saying Dunnstral.

Not sure what to make of it.

?

Elsa couldn't have even targeted me last night, by the way.

[Dunnstral]

Can confirm he sent me a message.

So you're actually novice neopolitan and fakeclaimed the inno on me because of my FN?

[Dunnstral]

I jailed EspressoJet,

ok but LUV says he's vt. So where does that leave us?

[Dunnstral]

Do we lynch luv?

[Dunnstral]

Well you either blocked the person performing the kill, blocked the kill being performed on espresso, or mafia didn't kill

If they were targetting Espresso with the kill... how were they planning on winning?

[Dunnstral]

Maybe Rabid is scum so he can say he's in a neighborhood when checked by Luv

[Dunnstral]

Setup spec wise I think the neighbor is scum if luv is town, but I'm not certain of either

[Dunnstral]

Setup spec wise I think the neighbor is scum if luv is town, but I'm not certain of either

Do you normally argue this as Town?

Chill out detective I'm claiming FN

[Dunnstral]

I argue set up spec as town, yes

[Dunnstral]

I don't think Elsa should protect me, if I die that means Nero inherits my role (supposedly) and he then targets Elsa while Wake watches Elsa so we can confirm him.

[Dunnstral]

Not sure what "traitor kill" entails

[Dunnstral]

Ah I see, yup yup traitor kill setup

[Dunnstral]

Generally scum roles exist to counter town roles, though, especially in normals. We know they don't have a ninja, and it seems that they don't have a roleblocker either.

Also, it would be 11:4

[Dunnstral]

If Dunnstral is literally a Friendly Neighbor shouldn't I be watching him? Assuming he's legit he's sending Conftown information to people.

Elsa's role is more important

[Dunnstral]

Or luv, like elsa said

I had intentionally fake claimed a role that I couldn't possibly be

Is that what we're going with now?

[Dunnstral]

what if there was a traitor conversion last night?

It's a normal game.

[Dunnstral]

(Traitors don't 'convert', they die, or are bulletproof)

[Dunnstral]

Nero's thing was really, really scummy, but we don't want to lynch him right now on the off-chance that he really is watcher enabler, since that messes with a lot of our night power. So, let's put that off for tomorrow, at least

VOTE: Pisskop

[Dunnstral]

Why exactly are we not lynching Espresso Jet again?

Because LUV says that he is vanilla town.

[Dunnstral]

It was night 2, and elsa targeted espresso on night 3

[Dunnstral]

Again, there could be 3 scum remaining/Luv could be lying

[Dunnstral]

2 scum dead, right

ICan we lynch luv tomorrow, after he checks dolly? And kill rabid, jailkeep nero. That all makes sense, yes?

[Dunnstral]

OK. Actually I want to lynch Nero but I don't think the mechanics support anything other than lynching Rabid today

VOTE: Rabid Schnauzer

[Dunnstral]

or we can no lynch

[Dunnstral]

If luv is town, scum have to kill Elsa, Espresso, Frank, and Me

But they only have 2 nightkills before we're at 4 people alive, if we keep lynching and there are no blocks

Maybe we should just lynch Luv today? Or does 2 scum left not make sense if he is scum?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Nero

Your plan is fine

[Dunnstral]

I think this game was bonkers town sided and wonder why it was 15 players over 13

[Dunnstral]

Targetted mister wake to save his ass, but he didn't even use it.

I suspected you for this when I saw it, not your targeting but that you were claiming it to be on Wake's slot when he forgot to use his ability, turns out you were lying and targeted Pisskop's slot instead

[Dunnstral]

I liked the flavor