Newbie 588 - Game Over!

[Muerrto]

If I'm scum, and my partner's dead, why the hell would I care whether Claus dies or not? If everyone's fine with AA, why wouldn't I just go with the crowd? None of you are on my side, I need you all dead. Why focus on one person?

I'm dissappointed you think Claus's case on me is better than mine on him Noob, but that's what newbie games are for. For one, my opinion of Claus has never changed. I haven't been going on and on about it, I've barely posted in the past week or two. But Claus started by saying I was town but dumb and bad at reading etc. Over time he decided I was possibly scum. Now he's absolutely sure I'm scum. What exactly changed his opinion? Me thinking he's scum? How is that scummy?

Official Vote Count

Claus - 1 (Muerrto)
strappado - 1 (goborage)
Muerrto - 1 (Claus)

Not Voting - 3 (Abstract Actuary, strappado, The World No.1 Noob)

4 to Lynch (2 at deadline, July 31).

[Claus]

Ok. Here is the thing - Delta lost my luggage, and with it the AC cord of my laptop. This means that For the next 5 days I have a total of 7 computer hours - so I will be checking on MS very rarely. Sorry about that.

[goborage]

@ #1noob: Enough to vote for strap and push for her lynch.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Oh No!! Look!!! It's a deadline!!!!

[strappado]

I think that was just a threat ....?

In either case, the mod is right. Activity has dropped and not much is changing. I'd still really like to hear more from AA, but he said he would be semi-unavailable. His recent posts have been brief, but not particularly scummy.
I'm leaning towards town again on Gobo.
We know Noob is town.
I suspect Muerrto is town.
That only leaves Claus.

The Muerrto/Claus back and forth didn't really sway me that much, I could just as much see one as being scum as I could see neither being scum. Town fights with town a lot in these games. The thing that sways me is that Claus said through the majority of the argument that Muerrto seemed town, and when Muerrto first accused him he said

I'm disappointed with your read, muerrto. Do it over.

but still insists that he sees Muerrto as town. The more Muerrto asserts that he thinks Claus is the scum, the more volatile their discourse becomes until Claus says he is now sure enough that Muerrto is scum to vote him. It's a classic OMGUS. I didn't feel there was any sincerety in Claus's vote, it just seemed like he was trying to discredit his attacker by calling him scum.

I feel fairly confident that Claus is scum, not so much because of Muerrto's case, but because of Claus' reaction to it.

vote: Claus

[The World No.1 Noob]

The thing that sways me is that Claus said through the majority of the argument that Muerrto seemed town, and when Muerrto first accused him he said
Claus wrote:
I'm disappointed with your read, muerrto. Do it over.

but still insists that he sees Muerrto as town. The more Muerrto asserts that he thinks Claus is the scum, the more volatile their discourse becomes until Claus says he is now sure enough that Muerrto is scum to vote him. It's a classic OMGUS. I didn't feel there was any sincerety in Claus's vote, it just seemed like he was trying to discredit his attacker by calling him scum.

I feel fairly confident that Claus is scum, not so much because of Muerrto's case, but because of Claus' reaction to it.

I don't agree with that, the reasons I posted for Muerrto before, this is gonna take the focus off Muerrto and AA but...

vote: Strappado

[The World No.1 Noob]

the ball is now in AA's court

[Claus]

Sorry Strap, but I think you are either confused, or just trying to ride on muerrto's wave.

For me, accusing of personal attacks is not different from accusing of cheating at all. And every time when I asked Muerrto to explain where I was attacking him personally, and he dodged the question, the only thing I could think of is that his reason for not saying why he was offended was that he was not offended. He was just playing the "offended" card to get away without answering to my replies to his attacks.

And that (lying that you are offended to avoid answering attacks) looks really scummy, don't you think so? Why would town pretend they are offended?

====

Anyway, Muerrto finally gave me something to respond to, so:

I did not call

you

dumb. I used the word dumb was on 561, to say that "Scum bussing a buddy when he can have a townie lynched instead is dumb"- which you accused me of doing. That was directed at the tactic you accused me of be spousing, not at you. And I said your re-read was bad, not you - after all, you completely skipped all but my first 5 posts into the thread! - so I don't see how you can see that one as a personal attack.

Do you still think that 561 is "full of personal attacks"? If not, I would be glad to re-start our discussion from there, as after taking a break from this thread I see that I was letting my annoyance of your "personal attack" accusations to hamper my judgement, and I think the same was going on with you.

[Claus]

EBWOP:

First paragraph: "From my point of view, he was just playing the "offended" card to get away without answering to my replies..."

[Muerrto]

Do you still think that 561 is "full of personal attacks"? If not, I would be glad to re-start our discussion from there, as after taking a break from this thread I see that I was letting my annoyance of your "personal attack" accusations to hamper my judgement, and I think the same was going on with you.

You yourself admitted it had personal attacks and tried to justify it saying I had said worse in other games. Now it's not full of attacks? Make up your mind.

And how does any of this help move the game forward? So by your own admission, you've voting me because I said you insulted me? Because that makes me scum somehow? Have you done any scumhuting or responding BESIDES harp on that?

I replaced in, read 20 effing pages. Posted my theories on what happened and the first thing you said 'I'm dissappointed in your read, do it again' and called it 'shoddy'. So you know what, vote whoever you want I'm sick to death of playing with you. Jesus.

And just to quote so everyone can see:

I'm disappointed with your read, muerrto. Do it over.

I'll make a proper re-read later.

I just read 20 fucking pages, you felt the need to post this shit, never comment on anything else I said, and then ask me where the insults are?

'Thanks for replacing in and reading 20 pages and posting all within a few hours. I'm not gonna comment on anything other than to say it was wrong completely and for you to read it again because your opinion of what occured in the thread can't possily be different from mine or anyone else's'

Does that about some up your view? Get off your high fucking horse. Christ.

I MAY be wrong, but I'm NOT being an asshole about it. I simply said I think you're scum and that's that. I asked for other's comments and when they gave them I refuted them. They can agree or disagree but I have my opinion on who I think the scum is and so do they.

Never once did I say you did such and such wrong or you misread or blah blah because since I think you're scum you're SUPPOSED to be doing that stuff.

IF you are scum your playstyle is absolutely horrible and if I was a newbie putting up with your crap I'd have quit the whole website by now.

IF you are town then act like an IC, use some common sense that everyone's opinions are gonna differ, read the damn thread COMPLETELY, not just parts, and try and join the rest of the town in scumhunting at least a little.

[Claus]

:sigh:

I kinda knew this is what I would get for trying to get the bad blood straight between us.

I'm surprised you're now raising the "Do it over" jab as the personal attack that made you offended - you seemed to take it pretty well at the time, and then asked me to reply to your other comments, which I did on 561.

But sure, if that was what offended you, sorry - see how hard that was? As the rest of that post (which you did not quote,

again

) says, I wanted to point out that Grum was lynched because I went the trouble to push for his lynch, convince others to join it, and put down the alternative SL lynch. I need to be a REAL bussing maniac to be scum after all that.

Then you started your tirade about me "insulting" you, and ignoring my posts (561, 570) - even though other people have already said in thread that they see nothing insulting about them.

You're the one who started this. Hope you feel happy that you've been making this game completely unfun for me as well.

Feel free to shout "bad IC" and "not scumhunting" around if you want, but you're not doing much better. All you have done so far in the game was attack me without answering to my critics to your attack, say that strap is your second vote even though "there is no case on her" (of course, you've dropped that now she's supporting you), and put down Noob as a newbie because he does not agree with you. Yep, a lot of scumhunting you're doing with the town.

[The World No.1 Noob]

I see that I was letting my annoyance of your "personal attack" accusations to hamper my judgement

I think this still holds, while I'm not convinced by his case on you, I'm not convinced by your case on him either. I think your cases against each other has reached a deadlock and its time for you to consider other options.

[Muerrto]

Actually my original case was before any insults or 'critiques' of my reading. I legitamitely and still do think Claus is scum. I haven't 'dropped my case on Strap' I have no case on Strap. She's my second by default because I think Gobo and AA are town and Noob's confirmed.

Still happy with my vote.

[goborage]

Mod: prod AA please

He's back to his lurking ways.

I don't really have anything to add. Vote Dave please. Claus if you don't like wishywashyness than you must hate strap's play.

This is irrelevant to the game but I don't think Claus made any personal attacks in his posts, Muerrto. I'd say grow a thicker skin; you're on the internet. I've seen ACTUAL flaming in games (i.e. "You're an idiot") and Claus is nowhere near that level.

[strappado]

uhm...I thought I posted in here a few secs ago, but went to re-read and it was gone...Uhm...maybe it's stuck in limbo. Sorry for the double post if it comes through before I post this.

@ Claus - if you had to assume Muerrto was innocent, who would your 2nd choice be?

[Muerrto]

This is irrelevant to the game but I don't think Claus made any personal attacks in his posts, Muerrto. I'd say grow a thicker skin; you're on the internet. I've seen ACTUAL flaming in games (i.e. "You're an idiot") and Claus is nowhere near that level.

Shrug I never really got upset about it till he kept on and on and on about it. Was saying I posted my opinions and instead of reading them, he said they were crap. Not a town manuever.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Mod: prod AA please

AA was prodded and picked up said prod on the 15th.

[Abstract Actuary]

I'm here but still very short on time. strappado was my top candidate going into today and Claus was pretty low on the list. strappado is still my top candidate, but my vote for her will basically hammer her, since Claus is not on that wagon, yet. I'm going to reread the case(s) against Claus brought up today and then make my decision.

[The World No.1 Noob]

hey when is our deadline?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

hey when is our deadline?

Well, post 653 was a not-so-subtle hint to start posting more, but since you asked for one:

Deadline set for Thursday, July 31st.

[strappado]

I've really said everything I want to say so far and nothing new has come up. I really think that Claus is the scum, so that's where my vote is.
Actually, I think it may still be on gobo because I didn't unvote first
just in case

unvote; vote: Claus

[Claus]

Hey.

@Noob, Gobo and Strapp:

Yes, I don't like Strap's play. She has been my number 2 for this day and, unlike Muerrto, I actually can see reasons why she might be scum. The posts below outline my thoughts about strapp (and other players):

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1137930
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1144406

I'm still surer about Muerrto though. The simple thing is that Muerrto has been using lies to dodge my defense of his accusations, and misrepresentations to push his attacks.

For a recent example:

This is Post 665

Shrug I never really got upset

And this is Post 562

Yeah, not responding to that post. There were so many insults in that post I stopped counting.

So there. Muerrto claims that I have insulted him, so he won't respond to my defense. Then later he claims he was never offended. Notice he has been doing this every time I reply to his case.

Another example. See the second part of Post 602:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 58#1133458

Where I explain to him why it is not WIFOM that my attack on Grum cannot be Bussing. With links and everything else.

Here is his reply to that post:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 49#1133949

Again, Muerrto uses the "I'm offended" line to dodge my defense. But, hey, he just said he was not offended. So which is it?

I can see no reason why a pro-town player would do this. Muerrto is not interested in trying to find out if I'm town or not - he is just ignoring my arguments with the "I'm offended" excuse (which he just admitted which was not true) and using every trick in his book to get me lynched.

Scum lie to get people lynched, not town.

==========

@Muerrto

He said they were crap. Not a town manuever.

Yeah, stop right there. I have given you reasons for every critique of your case I have made. So it is not like I say your case is crap and then say nothing about it.

If you are going to accuse me of anti-town behavior, you better start quoting my posts, instead of just painting broad-brush accusations. Show your evidence.

==========

[Muerrto]

I've answered every question you've posted even though I did at first tell you your post was one long insult, as it was, and I wasn't going to respond to it. I figured you'd just repost without the insults instead of freaking out. You never did.

You're lying now because you're acting like I've never addressed your points.

Basically, you saw no scumminess from my predecessors at all until I replaced in, called you out, and now all of a sudden I'm suspiscious. That's definitely interesting. Besides OMGUS culd you tell me why you flipped so quick? Also, if my case on you of bussing is crap, why is Artem's 'bussing' of me better? Because he was pretty hardcore trying to get SL lynched yesterday.

[goborage]

Eh. I can see your points Claus, but Muerrto is still below Strap in scumminess.

Regarding the flip-flopping on being offended, I can empathize. To admit your feelings were hurt is somewhat emasculating. Even if the tears are plain as day my experience is most guys would deny until they die.

[The World No.1 Noob]

LOL, gobo, nice use of vocabulary...LMAO