Newbie 621 (Game Over!)

[Mirth]

Fair enough. I'd like to hear what Merc and Malex think of my claim.

[zeal]

Ok, you believe the claim. But you are under the assumption that ALL of Mirth's suspects are scum. Not only is that bad town play if your town, but bad scum play as you were easily outed as following along. Why couldn't Malex and Kristopf be scum partners, hell why can't me and Grem be scum partners?

No, I'm assuming that you are the only one of Mirth's suspects that are scum. I can't see why you weren't targeted last night. I don't think you and Grem were bussing each other, it was too serious for that. I don't see you taking the risk of one of you being wagonned.

Also, it may be "easy" for Mirth to get caught, but it could cost the town at least another mislynch and possibly a third.

How could it cause a third?

Both of these have been nullified, as the cop is dead, and I am going to be targeted again with either a roleblock or a kill, as the scum clearly want me out of the way, if they thought enough to roleblock me to roleblock me the first night even if it was blind.

That still doesn't mean they would have roleblocked you again tonight.

Just wondering, what does the extra S in SFoS mean?

[mercdaemon]

Fair enough. I'd like to hear what Merc and Malex think of my claim.

I haven't really made up my mind on the truth of your claim. If it's true, then I've got nothing to worry about. If it's false then you're scum. It could go either way. At this moment, I'm reading what other people have had to say about it to give me a better idea. You've thrown all your cards on the table, some face up, some face down.

The issue I have with the claim is that if it's correct, you've basically zeroed out the usefulness for the doc. I can't see anything to say that a roleblocker would know that they've hit a power role. If you're telling the truth, you've basically told them.

[Mirth]

I have, but I have no usefullness since the scum are playing the "get rid of the nonscum ICs" game. I think Merc is still scum, btw.

[Malex McJokeus]

Why believe me so easily? I could just as well be scum, know there is no roleblocker, and claim doc because the only real town powerrole was killed.

When you say things like this right after role claiming it makes me concerned. It is entirely possible that you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I quite frankly don't know what to believe. Also, for someone who kept saying how you wanted to have to upper hand for as long as possible, was this really the appropriate time to put all of your cards on the table? Or could it be another way to keep the upper hand?

Those would be some crazy lucky night choices for the scum.

This statement bothers me. If what Mirth says is true, then stating the obvious does not do anything for me, and comming from Gremwell (whom I already was suspicious of) it may sound like he is giving himself a pat on the back for the lucky night roleblock and kill. I could be reading too much into it since I am already suspicious of him, but as I said, I don't know what to believe. My D-1 read through did not do much to strengthen my case on anyone, especially since to me it looks like I am just reading too much into everything everyone says.

[Mirth]

Why believe me so easily? I could just as well be scum, know there is no roleblocker, and claim doc because the only real town powerrole was killed.

When you say things like this right after role claiming it makes me concerned. It is entirely possible that you are trying to pull the wool over our eyes. I quite frankly don't know what to believe. Also, for someone who kept saying how you wanted to have to upper hand for as long as possible, was this really the appropriate time to put all of your cards on the table? Or could it be another way to keep the upper hand?

Completely possible, yes. But I pretty much needed to claim. Though I must say, if I were smart scum who knew there was no doctor, I'd have waited a bit closer to endgame to avoid the WIFOM for surviving.

[Gremwell]

I'm going to go ahead and put this back up

Vote Batto

Only reason I took it down was because of the deadline yesterday and he's not looking any less scummy than before in my eyes

[Battousai]

Ok, you believe the claim. But you are under the assumption that ALL of Mirth's suspects are scum. Not only is that bad town play if your town, but bad scum play as you were easily outed as following along. Why couldn't Malex and Kristopf be scum partners, hell why can't me and Grem be scum partners?

No, I'm assuming that you are the

only one of Mirth's suspects that are scum

. I can't see why you weren't targeted last night. I don't think you and Grem were bussing each other, it was too serious for that. I don't see you taking the risk of one of you being wagonned.

Let's see, there could be a chance Mirth is scum (thus I would have been roleblocked and then Farside killed. Or it could be the fact that NONE of the IC's were scum, thus they could only effect 2 of the 3 of us. What your saying is that YOU thought FARSIDE was scummier than I was, thus Farside should have been kept alive instead of myself.

I don't like your statement. You think I'm scummy, because I'm alive and not Farside.

Also, I bolded a part of your quote. Are you saying you are only considering Mirth's scum list and not going by your own?

Also, it may be "easy" for Mirth to get caught, but it could cost the town at least another mislynch and possibly a third.

How could it cause a third?

We already have one mislynch. So it's 5-2 scum. Then in that scenerio I listed that it would be beneficialy for Mirth to falseclaim right now. So as long as you're going along with everything Mirth says and votesme it's 3-2 scum Day 3 (lylo). And at Lylo, I think Mirth, if scum, could easily manipulate the rest of the town and not vote her at LyLo and that's another mislynch (if she can divert attention away from her scum partner in both of those days).

Both of these have been nullified, as the cop is dead, and I am going to be targeted again with either a roleblock or a kill, as the scum clearly want me out of the way, if they thought enough to roleblock me to roleblock me the first night even if it was blind.

That still doesn't mean they would have roleblocked you again tonight.

Just wondering, what does the extra S in SFoS mean?

The S means Serious. Agreed with above bolded part. I'm sure you weren't going to be lynched today, so you becoming an uncomfirmed (we don't know the roles of the scum to confirm the existance of a doc) doc doesn't help the town as much as one that is hidden and possibly saving another player's life. I know you say you are certain the scum are going for the IC's, but finding out you were a doc after you are dead would probably would have been better for the town to get rid of all the WIFOM.


Also, we are getting more activity. Let's keep it up

[Mirth]

Let's see, there could be a chance Mirth is scum (thus I would have been roleblocked and then Farside killed. Or it could be the fact that NONE of the IC's were scum, thus they could only effect 2 of the 3 of us. What your saying is that YOU thought FARSIDE was scummier than I was, thus Farside should have been kept alive instead of myself.

I don't like your statement. You think I'm scummy, because I'm alive and not Farside.

Except that there is no chance of that and you gain scum points for even suggesting it. If I am scum, then there is no doctor, thus there is also no roleblocker, thus you could not have been roleblocked. And you should know that.

[mercdaemon]

Except that there is no chance of that and you gain scum points for even suggesting it. If I am scum, then there is no doctor, thus there is also no roleblocker, thus you could not have been roleblocked. And you should know that.

If you are scum, you could be partnered with a roleblocker and would know that you are. I haven't seen anything in the play that would remove that possibility.

The "strategy" of "killing off ICs" was suggested by Batt back in post 410. If we're to go with your version of events do you believe that scum-Batt would have brought this up?

[Battousai]

Mirth, I don't understand what you are saying. Did you miss my entire point of that quote? My point was that Zeal thought I should have been killed over Farside and I gave reasons on why I wasn't targeted to my knowledge. From a third party perspective, don't you think those options I listed were POSSIBLE? Why do I get scum points for suggesting the fact that YOU could be scum. In all honesty you kind of get some scum points for claiming when you didn't need to, IMHO.

Actually Merc, I believe Mirth was the first one to bring up killing the ICs as what the scum are doing (I was focused on why Farside was picked over other people, revenge, setup, etc.), and I went on to say that is a possibility.

[mercdaemon]

Actually Merc, I believe Mirth was the first one to bring up killing the ICs as what the scum are doing (I was focused on why Farside was picked over other people, revenge, setup, etc.), and I went on to say that is a possibility.

I stand corrected.

[Mirth]

Except that there is no chance of that and you gain scum points for even suggesting it. If I am scum, then there is no doctor, thus there is also no roleblocker, thus you could not have been roleblocked. And you should know that.

If you are scum, you could be partnered with a roleblocker and would know that you are. I haven't seen anything in the play that would remove that possibility.

The "strategy" of "killing off ICs" was suggested by Batt back in post 410. If we're to go with your version of events do you believe that scum-Batt would have brought this up?

If I was scum and my partner was the roleblocker, then I couldn't claim doctor. Because we have a cop. That means there is either only the cop *or* both the doctor and the roleblocker too. If I was scum then there'd be a real doctor around to counterclaim me. None of you have so far and Kristopfs replacement wont, I can assure you. (If he does, lynch us both, doctor for scum is a good trade)

Batto, I got what you were saying, but how you made your point bothers me. Your specific example. You don't get scum points for suggesting that I'm scum, you get scum points for suggesting you were roleblocked, because if I'm lying, there would be no roleblocker.

[Battousai]

I didn't really mean to suggest that I was roleblocked, just that there is a an equal chance that you lied about being roleblocked and that you are scum. If your lieing and scum, I would agree that there is not a roleblocker as the doc would be wise and counterclaim you by now. Those examples I gave came from the top of my head, thus I didn't take into consideration all the roles/scenarios and instead only took into consideration possible scenerios where I could not be targeted in a "kill the ICs strategy" (no IC scum, you lied and thus I was RB'd and Farside was killed, etc.)

What do you think about Zeal, Mirth? Do you think it is strange that Zeal seems to blindly follow you very closely? I think there might be a Zeal/Mirth connection or more likely a Zeal pretending to make a connection with Mirth (Mirth dies and is protown, makes Zeal less scummy).

[Mirth]

I don't like how Zeal doesn't have an opinion of her own right now (said so after she decided to appropriate mine). I don't really suspect her much, but I'm totally *not* liking her parroting.

[zeal]

Let's see, there could be a chance Mirth is scum (thus I would have been roleblocked and then Farside killed. Or it could be the fact that NONE of the IC's were scum, thus they could only effect 2 of the 3 of us.

I think the chance of Mirth being scum is lower than the chance of her being the doc.

Also, I bolded a part of your quote. Are you saying you are only considering Mirth's scum list and not going by your own?

No, I'm saying that if Mirth's claim is truthful, which I currently believe it is, then I would assume you are one of the scum. The other I am not sure of. I think Mirth is overreacting towards Merc.

[mith]

Still looking for a replacement. Still traveling as well, so I haven't been able to be as aggressive looking as I'd like. Should be resolved Wednesday at the latest.

[Battousai]

Zeal: What I don't get is why you think I would be scum if Mirth is the doc? Is it because you think an IC HAS to be scum, because I would like YOUR information on why you would assume I'm scum if Mirth is a doc.

[zeal]

No, its because it would make more sense to target you. I would assume that the strategy of killing of ICs is used in most newbie games, since they're the biggest threat as townies. If you are town, you have helped us search more than farside did, so why kill her over you?

[Mirth]

Zeal, I realize this is pure WIFOM, do you?

[mith]

Driving home today, will get caught up on any prodding/vote counts when I'm back.

[Battousai]

Zeal, while it is a common theory in newbie games compared to games on different parts of the forum. There are also other theories the scum could come up with. See my post 408, that has a few strategies scum can use as well.

And also, the biggest threat to scum is not IC's but rather people who might be a powerrole and/or are getting close to figuring them out.

FOS: Malex, Gremwell

for showing up, and then when Zeal, myself, and Mirth have gotten into this recent conversation you disappear for OVER a day.

[Mirth]

No FOS at Merc?

[Gremwell]

Wow, I was just going to post that ^, forget you buddy?

[Mirth]

Why are you only appearing after he FOSed you?