Mini #553: Over!

[destructor]

My 'splaination: I felt like going out on a limb. I was thinking about who Guardian's scum buddy could be and decided to go with Occam's Razor on the whole thing. I don't think you were bussing him yesterday, I think Matt_S is town, I don't think Bab was bussing Imat/Shamrock. The only player left is Sethaniel who's been floating around the last few weeks. I wonder why Guardian hasn't had anything to say about

Sethaniel's

lurking.

I'm thinking Guardian's case on him in Day 2 was distancing because it looked like he was going to be lynched.

If Des really has no targeting ability, then Guardian is lying.

Whether I had a targeting ability or not, he lied anyway.

For des to switch his vote to me with no explanation reeks of scum. Perhaps he realized a Guardian lynch was iffy, and saw bab's suspicions as a way to get some other townie lynched.

So what are you suggesting I switched my vote for? After spending today pushing for Guardian's lynch and building a case, I thought I'd have better luck lynching you? And I decided my best bet to get you lynched was to vote for you without explanation? Which part of this makes sense?

And how was a Guardian lynch iffy?

[Talitha]

Current Vote Count

destructor (3)

- Guardian, BridgesandBaloons, Sethaniel

Sethaniel (1)

- destructor

Not voting (2): ting =), Matt_S

FOUR (4) votes will lynch.

[Matt_S]

You did exactly what I was afraid I would do. However, everything you say adds up. Sethaniel and all his predecessors have 54 posts, and you have 81. However, the fact that you're pushing for someone's lynch other than the person who claims to have evidence that you're scum is unnerving. However, I don't think this would be a tactic of someone who has a buddy. I still want to

Vote Guardian

.

[Guardian]

You did exactly what I was afraid I would do.

Huh?

However, everything you say adds up.

Huh??

Sethaniel and all his predecessors have 54 posts, and you have 81.

Relevant how?

However, the fact that you're pushing for someone's lynch other than the person who claims to have evidence that you're scum is unnerving.

unnerving? that's all?

However, I don't think this would be a tactic of someone who has a buddy.

Why??

I still want to

Vote Guardian

.

Emphasis on

want

, I guess?

[Matt_S]

I still haven't seen anything form you about why destructor is scum that doesn't involve lurking and trusting that you aren't scum. The lurking part is now irrelevant. I don't think destructor would do this if he had a buddy because it only prolongs the day and gives more time to find his potential buddy.

[Guardian]

I still haven't seen anything form you about why destructor is scum that doesn't involve lurking and trusting that you aren't scum.

Having a case of deafness and/or blindness?

The MOST recent of the numerous times I've argued for destructor being scum not based on lurking or me being town was post 858.

I think this lynch should be correctly figure-out-able by dint of destructor's claimed role. UNnk-able townie just doesn't make much sense. First of all, like I've said, does it make any sense at all that the town has an UNnk-able role and the

one man only team, who has to survive the whole game with two other killing roles, the SK, was NK-able while a random townie wasn't

??? Shakaa was pretty bad, but how could a mod conceive of that being even remotely close to fair?

Second, des hasn't played in accordance with that role at all. UNnk-able townie should play as the most vocal (and hopefully town looking) player in the game. Granted that is not always possible, but destructor's hanging back is complete opposite of how you'd expect this role to play. That role desperately wants to be targeted at night by scum, and destructor's play just doesn't match up to that.

In addition -- some have noted his agreeing with the mass claim as making sense. To me it looks like scum who have a powerful fake claim (Frodo, perchance?) and possibly a partner who's almost confirmed themselves by mimicking the townie role PM.

And UNnk-able townie should vehemently oppose a role claim -- once claimed, the UNnk-able townie loses a lot of its utility, and since UNnkT is such a powerful role, losing one of its two main draws (sucking in scum NKs) by mass claiming is a pretty poor play. Sure an UNnkT has the other possible power of being confirmed somehow, and then never being lynched or killed, but that's not much good at all if all the other power roles are dying around you, as would happen in a mass claim.

Also, comparing destructor to Imat: Imat's unsureness and towards the end peripheral play can be explained by disinterest. He got replaced. Destructor stuck it through and lurked, and lurked, and lurked some more. Who wins by lurking? Scum.

I've made many arguments for why destructor is scum. You've just ignored them. I'm going to re-read the game and see if you really are 100% confirmed... because you are confirmed via claiming townie first and CoolBot confirming that your role PM == the townie role PM...

As much as I'd convinced myself you are confirmed innocent, I can't see a townie blissfully keeping his head in the sand as much as you.

Also:

You did exactly what I was afraid I would do.

Huh?

Why were you afraid you'd do it?

The lurking part is now irrelevant.

That's not true at all. He lurked during day 1 and 2, and didn't get replaced, indicating he lurked as a strategy. Lurking as a strategy is a point against him. I've been over this.

I don't think destructor would do this if he had a buddy because it only prolongs the day and gives more time to find his potential buddy.

You are making so many assumptions that I don't see as justified I don't even know where to begin. First, who says Sethaniel isn't destructor's partner? Second, who says destructor logically thought this through? Third, why would prolonging the day be bad for destructor? Fourth, why do you think this action was designed to prolong the day?

Those are just the easiest four to mention...

[Matt_S]

I still haven't seen anything form you about why destructor is scum that doesn't involve lurking and trusting that you aren't scum.

Having a case of deafness and/or blindness?

The MOST recent of the numerous times I've argued for destructor being scum not based on lurking or me being town was post 858.

I think this lynch should be correctly figure-out-able by dint of destructor's claimed role. UNnk-able townie just doesn't make much sense. First of all, like I've said, does it make any sense at all that the town has an UNnk-able role and the

one man only team, who has to survive the whole game with two other killing roles, the SK, was NK-able while a random townie wasn't

??? Shakaa was pretty bad, but how could a mod conceive of that being even remotely close to fair?

Second, des hasn't played in accordance with that role at all. UNnk-able townie should play as the most vocal (and hopefully town looking) player in the game. Granted that is not always possible, but destructor's hanging back is complete opposite of how you'd expect this role to play. That role desperately wants to be targeted at night by scum, and destructor's play just doesn't match up to that.

In addition -- some have noted his agreeing with the mass claim as making sense. To me it looks like scum who have a powerful fake claim (Frodo, perchance?) and possibly a partner who's almost confirmed themselves by mimicking the townie role PM.

And UNnk-able townie should vehemently oppose a role claim -- once claimed, the UNnk-able townie loses a lot of its utility, and since UNnkT is such a powerful role, losing one of its two main draws (sucking in scum NKs) by mass claiming is a pretty poor play. Sure an UNnkT has the other possible power of being confirmed somehow, and then never being lynched or killed, but that's not much good at all if all the other power roles are dying around you, as would happen in a mass claim.

Also, comparing destructor to Imat: Imat's unsureness and towards the end peripheral play can be explained by disinterest. He got replaced. Destructor stuck it through and lurked, and lurked, and lurked some more. Who wins by lurking? Scum.

I've made many arguments for why destructor is scum. You've just ignored them. I'm going to re-read the game and see if you really are 100% confirmed... because you are confirmed via claiming townie first and CoolBot confirming that your role PM == the townie role PM...

As much as I'd convinced myself you are confirmed innocent, I can't see a townie blissfully keeping his head in the sand as much as you.

Also:

You did exactly what I was afraid I would do.

Huh?

Why were you afraid you'd do it?

The lurking part is now irrelevant.

That's not true at all. He lurked during day 1 and 2, and didn't get replaced, indicating he lurked as a strategy. Lurking as a strategy is a point against him. I've been over this.

I don't think destructor would do this if he had a buddy because it only prolongs the day and gives more time to find his potential buddy.

You are making so many assumptions that I don't see as justified I don't even know where to begin. First, who says Sethaniel isn't destructor's partner? Second, who says destructor logically thought this through? Third, why would prolonging the day be bad for destructor? Fourth, why do you think this action was designed to prolong the day?

Those are just the easiest four to mention...

1. I've already mentioned why I don't have a problem with an unNKable townie. We don't know what powers the serial killer had. And the rest of that big, quoted post is about him agreeing with a name claim, which fits with his claim. And go ahead and throw dirt on me, see what you can do. It's what Imat did as well. You accuse me of being stubborn despite plenty of reasons for me to believe you are scum. Now try giving some legitimate arguments.

2. I used the wrong pronoun. Replace the second "I" with "you".

3. Just because someone comes back to the game doesn't mean that lurking was a part of their strategy.

4. You're the one not listening.
If Sethaniel is his partner, then he would have just revealed him, and I don't see that happening. Destructor would be better off taking the lynch and having you lead everyone to ting's demise. I assumed this part would be obvious.
Assuming someone is acting rational isn't that big of an assumption.
I already said why prolonging the day would be bad. It gives us time to find out his potential buddy.
It doesn't matter what he intended. All that matters is what's happening, and what's happening is that the day is going on.

[ting =)]

vote:guardian

this has gone on long enough. you haven't done anything to convince me not to.

[Guardian]

BAB, Seth, if either of you is destructor's buddy, congratulations.

If you are not, how about convincing Matt_S that he's wrong? I'm pretty fed up with his arguments tbh. We've been back and forth on most of them and he keeps holding unreasonable stances and accusing me of not making any arguments.

If you want to vote me and lynch a townie in some desperate hope that destructor had only one partner, go ahead and do that as well.

I'm like 90% sure ting =) is destructor's buddy, and 99.9% sure it is either ting =) or Matt_S. Anyways, go for it. I'm pretty sick of Matt_S, and I don't care enough to waste more time on him.

[Sethaniel]

I'm sticking with voting destructor.

After fighting with Guardian all day, he switches to voting me without giving any explanation.

then, he says he wanted ting to comment before he'll say anything.

His eventual explanation is that he thinks I must be Guardian's scumbuddy.

He never did explain why he gave no reasoning for his vote, or why it was so important that ting weigh in on the discussion.

So what are you suggesting I switched my vote for? After spending today pushing for Guardian's lynch and building a case, I thought I'd have better luck lynching you? And I decided my best bet to get you lynched was to vote for you without explanation?

What the hell does this mean? If he's not trying to lynch me, then why else would he switch his vote? Somehow des thinks voting for me will get Guardian lynched?

[destructor]

No, voting you proved that you're Guardian's buddy. ting not hammering me proved that he wasn't. You could say my vote on you was an all-in, hoping for an ace on the river, AKA a gambit.

Again, why did you think I switched my vote? Do you really think I thought you would be today's lynch? I'm completely aware that the best play for the rest of the town today is to lynch one of me of Guardian because they all

know

that one of us is lying.

And on that note,

Unvote
Vote: Guardian

[Talitha]

Current Vote Count

destructor (3)

- Guardian, BridgesandBaloons, Sethaniel

Guardian (3)

- Matt_S, ting =), destructor

FOUR votes will lynch.

[Guardian]

wondering...

mod: What would happen at a deadline if two people are tied?

[Talitha]

This is not my usual deadline rule, but seeing as Shaka's rules in the second post state that if there is no majority then no-one will be lynched, I'll enforce the rules that have been posted. No-one would be lynched.

[Guardian]

well we can either break this deadlock and lynch destrucor, break and lynch me, or not break and no lynch.

wait... is no lynch really that bad an option here? I mean, what do we lose from a NL? I can't see anything.

Anyways still town tracker here. get active ;p

[Matt_S]

A no lynch kills someone off. Then the three people on whatever side can get a mislynch. Or the scum can pull WIFOM and kill one of the people who suspect the other person. Or they can no kill and we can get a happily ever after.

[destructor]

Bab hasn't checked in yet. We're not necessarily deadlocked.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Okay guys, I want to firstly apologize that I was not able to pop in here as I said and planned to half-way through the week. I ended up having no internet access the whole week. Anyway, (unless a horrible family tragedy happens or zombies take over

or a nifty combo

) I will not be going away the rest of the summer. So I'm sorry again for not being able to respond, but I'm going to try my best to get caught up again and I should be here for the rest of the games with no more V/LA.

If this message is impossible to read, it's because I literally just got home and I've had very little sleep today. That's why I'm not going to post any game-related stuff tonight. I'll probably say something really stupid in at least one of my games and have to explain myself over and over. I plan to read the games tonight, reread tomorrow and post tomorrow.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

fyi this game is my high priority (sorry for those of you who are in other current games with me) because I feel like I didn't pay as much attention to this game when I came back from V/LA two weeks ago. And this game is probably in a pretty intense place especially after my vote and such.

[ting =)]

bab, switch vote, yes?

my main reasons:

Destructor was for the early nameclaim from khel, something which coolbot was wary about. That means that he has a name, and it's also consistent with his claim of bulletproof.

Guardian's information disagrees with Massive's, and out of the two, Massive is the one we're guaranteed to be able to trust. That plus the whole coolbot thing.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

you've convinced me, Ting.

unvote

vote:

..... just kidding

vote: destructor

seriously I see a whole bunch of votes that tomorrow I can sift through and hopefully eliminate a few scum-pairs.

Again, not thinking entirely straight right now but I'll comment on the game tomorrow. Good news, one of my other games is over, so I'll be able to concentrate even more on this one.

[ting =)]

=(

[Talitha]

Deadline: 5 days from this post.

[destructor]

=( [gnit]

amirite?

More seriously, while a no lynch wouldn't lose us the game, it's something we can avoid if Bab sees the light.

[Matt_S]

ting mirrors my feelings exactly, both with his logic and his sad smiley.