TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Ankamius]

Ok then

[Firebringer]

rc says highest equity is within panth/gamma/kuribo and highest one in that group is kuribo.

so there u go.

how r u ms ank?

[panthaleon]

Wow that Lynch pool is awful

I figure last scum is in one of Dave, a50, and fb

[Ankamius]

I'm just ready for this game to be over

[Ankamius]

Wow that Lynch pool is awful

I figure last scum is in one of Dave, a50, and fb

Why is it awful and why those 3

[Firebringer]

Wow that Lynch pool is awful

I figure last scum is in one of Dave, a50, and fb

how could u even scumread dave and especially a50?

[Firebringer]

a50 became so obvious town after maria flip. no idea how people thought maria/a50 interactions were S/S

[Firebringer]

Wow that Lynch pool is awful

rc finds this extremely hilarious

[panthaleon]

I mean people have failed to explain how kuribo and I could be scum, that that would be cool to sort out

I still think it's suspicious that Maria opened discussions about role blocking Dave's group. Given that he gives investigative powers, I feel like it's reasonable to think that might have had something to do with it.

A50 was still weird from giving his vote to kuribo for a day and generally not being around

And idk firebringer hasn't really done anything but shitpost

[Firebringer]

And idk firebringer hasn't really done anything but shitpost

like i haven't read that a million times.

[Firebringer]

A50 was still weird from giving his vote to kuribo for a day and generally not being around

does any of this mean anything ?

[Ankamius]

Humhum

I think it's about time for me to try and fail to sleep again

[Almost50]

I am going to sleep now. Please don't vote anyone until I come back and give you my solve (with a case), but please feel free to discuss and FoS eachother all you want. If you feel the urge to vote, use the HURT: tags instead. Thank you.

[kuribo]

ive been told that last scum is kuribo, but idk if no death changes that or anything.

rc thought we would be dead.

RC is an idiot.


You're putting your faith in an idiot with whom I have personal animosity that goes both ways

[kuribo]

Like there's a reason I intentionally avoid playing with RC, and it's because we don't like each other



So by all means keep making yourself a proxy for his toxic ass bullshit

[Gammagooey]

I am going to sleep now. Please don't vote anyone until I come back and give you my solve (with a case), but please feel free to discuss and FoS eachother all you want. If you feel the urge to vote, use the HURT: tags instead. Thank you.

I want blood at this point but I would also like to respect your desires so fine

HURT: dave

I will say words tomorrow

[Firebringer]

@kuribo
u know rc never mentions any hatred of u. I am sure he isn't a fan but like everytime he comes up you go on to keep saying u hate him and its mutual and that he is a toxic, but he never says anything about how ur being toxic or constantly talk about how much he dislikes you.

nothing.

maybe you should get over ur hate of him because he clearly doesn't care that you hate him. In fact you don't even phase him. If you want to piss him off you should be insulting his skills. That's what he cares about.

I don't know what you think you accomplish with your anger at him. Because it doesn't bug RC, it doesn't change my opinion, and I don't think anyone else cares that you don't like him.

if its just to vent i guess go for it but ehh i think u could find a better outlet for it.

[Gammagooey]

This comes tonight actually

but actual words come tomorrow

b/c I think this looks very bad on dave's part and I dislike it very much

this is lots of words and context and literally a half page of posts minus one post of EP's that was breaking the spoiler tag

Spoiler: like a half page of posts when the FL wagon started

There is nothing to sort -- I'm unquestionably town.
I mean it exactly that way. Nothing confirmed here, not especially obvious even. But still, logically it is not something that can be questioned.
I would have expected you to treat the remaining member of my hood the same.
I'm the closest thing this game has to being a cop.
Like just, really? The role is confirmed, and you just don't fuck with the role ever.

A50 / Ank / vote remove->vig
It makes mechanical sense for scum to be in this group.
I successfully scumread A50 in a game where we were scum together Gotta be honest, I don't remember what I'm thinking this game.
Ank's posting, especially yesterday's, is so full of OMGUS and drama that I'd be hard pressed to tell what the real reads are.
I have much work to do, to figure out these two.

EP / FL doc->lightning
If there were scum in this group it would be weird. If a save goes awry that would tell the town in the hood that their
neighbor is scum. Furthermore scum can't really activate a LMS lightning rod without killing themselves, and lack of activating
would also be a red flag.
On top of that, I independently town read both FL and EP.

FB (not in a group)
Scum removing anyone from the Commuter / venge hood is a dice roll. It activates the venge and prevents the commute from being used as a 2nd doc.
It's entirely possible that scum wanted the hood gone early when the probability of getting 2 town is higher.
Frankly, we got lucky with nomnom's venge choice. I could see that going a lot of different directions.
FB is independently scummy to me, regardless of the hood roles.

Kuribo / Panthaleon RB
We already got one scum from this hood. Someone made a big point about the chances of 2 scum, early in the game. I don't remember
if that was arguing in favor of the possibility of 2 scum or if it was arguing against that.
I think Kuribo is genuine and is a strong TR for me.
Panthaleon has been extremely sketchy to me. I don't remember a single concrete read coming from this direction

DEB / Gammagooey -- CEO's, weird stuff??
One of the CEO's flipped 3p. Symmetry begs for there to be scum in this group.
I have made no secret of my scumread on DEB.
Gammagooey is one of my weakest TR, partly because DEB being useless and partly because Gamma just feels off.
Hypothetically if I didn't commute then this would tip the scales toward DEB scum, almost regardless of everything else.

Hey EP, can you paraphrase the post with FL asking for Maria's vote on Ank in your QT for me? (ask the mod before posting it if you're worried about it being too close to exact or anything like that)

Given that Maria flipped scum I think it's worth looking into a little more

I said I think we need your vote on Ank, Maria

Not Panth or FB.

2 separate posts. I didn’t look at it like that, but I guess I see why he’d call it out like that.

This is correct.

I interpreted this as meaning that FL's post in the hood was:

I think we need your vote on Ank, Maria

Followed by a separate post saying

Not Panth or FB.

I said that I think FL just put a comma instead of 'or' in the first post, and it's

probably

not a slip.
If we got to a point that there had to be scum in the EP/FL hood this would definitely point to FL. But I think it does not point to FL right now because I strongly doubt there is scum in that hood at all.

You're welcome to interpret it differently.

Hey EP, can you paraphrase the post with FL asking for Maria's vote on Ank in your QT for me? (ask the mod before posting it if you're worried about it being too close to exact or anything like that)

Given that Maria flipped scum I think it's worth looking into a little more

For sure. I bolded it in FL's recap:

I said

I think we need your vote on Ank, Maria.

Not Panth or FB.

2 separate posts. I didn’t look at it like that, but I guess I see why he’d call it out like that.

The first sentence is the one I was worried about. I added a period to it in the quoted 5961 for greater accuracy.

For added context, MariaR looked like she was positioning to move off of Ank at the time. That's why the timing is so weird.

Very interested in discussion relating to 6780.
Subtle reminder that it's possible to make strong points with few posts...

I said I think we need your vote on Ank, Maria

Not Panth or FB.

2 separate posts. I didn’t look at it like that, but I guess I see why he’d call it out like that.

This is correct.

I interpreted this as meaning that FL's post in the hood was:

I think we need your vote on Ank, Maria

Followed by a separate post saying

Not Panth or FB.

I said that I think FL just put a comma instead of 'or' in the first post, and it's

probably

not a slip.
If we got to a point that there had to be scum in the EP/FL hood this would definitely point to FL. But I think it does not point to FL right now because I strongly doubt there is scum in that hood at all.

You're welcome to interpret it differently.

I went through all of his posts in my hood. Almost all of them used either a / or proper comma use to distinguish between people. Mind you, most of the game has been just him and me, so he hasn't had to direct a comment at someone in a long time. When Elements was alive, he made a post directing separate points at Elements and me. In that post, he ended the respective sentence with ", Elements." And ", EP."

There was one example of FL saying X, Y, Z with no proper punctuation. This adds some support to his claim that he intended to put panth in the list of Ank, Maria, panth, but then changed it after.

Add in the fact that (1) gobble is scumreading FL, (2) the doctors are still somehow alive, despite being the optimal targets, and (3) the strange MariaR pivot onto FL mentioned in the spoilers posts above.

See below - several bolded examples of FL saying XYZ, name....

and these are just the first two pages of his ISO.

He does it more than or equal to @name to address people. He almost always uses name/name/name for listing names. He very rarely used name, name, name.

This game also started yesterday, Dave

. Pushing me for not coming out of the gate blazing...

Would you like me to come out blazing?

I’m not trying to mislynch Sod Volpe, though, Nomnom

.

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=60967

Found it, GIF.

It was 2015, holy shit

By FL, om, and now even MariaR.
Hers was the most surprising because she knows how much of a lazy fuck I am to make a post like that.

This isn't even close to true. The one game I've seen from you (the one I modded) you tryharded in. Sure, I know you're personally lazy but I didn't know how that translates. I think you're just getting annoyed because you're not getting the easy townreads that you expected to get.

I fight with RC, because I don’t let him town coast.

And I kill off NSG when she’s my traitor partner.

Actually, I think most of the time I play with NSG, I end up killing her regardless of my alignment.

Also, Maria, are you Elena?

Speak your truth, Dave,

don’t see it as bragging, it’s a part of you. It is you.

GIF’s never getting night killed, Ank.

He controls a commuter neighborhood with RC/NSG clout.

Also I think that style of scumplay is actually kind of disproportionately effective because people just haven't learned how to counter it

People just don’t move past the mechanical way of playing Mafia and don’t see it like a spectrum. :shrug:

The majority of my scum games there is generally zero actual reason for me to ever be Mafia, even when I am, and mechanical by the book players physically can’t understand why I win the games I do.

I feel like I probably have one of the, if not the, highest scum win rate from players who have had more than 7 scum games on site.

Not using mechanical play, and playing socially is a counter, kind of, but then you gotta play the game. I’m all about scum and town alike making the moves.

I have an extremely flashy vanilla scum play, kind of like the BooneyToonz games in general.

I am by the book, 100%. It’s just not the book the so called “elite” players are reading, because I find it completely outdated.

I’m gonna mainstream Mafia, guys.

Bet.

You’re my new apprentice, Chennisden.

Welcome to the Boon Babes.

Fark was the best NK for FL/nomnom and a below average NK to a team outiside of nomnom/FL that should be more worried about Ank the paragon reaching the conclusion that it's a lot of TvTs.

Comment on this, Ankamius

, please.

Because we talked earlier about something similar.

[/quote]

Very interested in discussion relating to 6780.
Subtle reminder that it's possible to make strong points with few posts...

What sort of discussion are you looking for regarding 6780? I didn't see any new material + most of your points are effectively, "it's a dice roll" or "we'll have to wait to see."

Geez! I said -in my hood- that I won't be pushing FL because it's harder to lynch him and the game would turn toxic if he was seriously pushed. That is why I wanted to push DEB over FL today although I am actually more confident FL is Scum.

I am now being forced to take a solid stance and out that if I ever got the Vig shot I was going to shoot FL myself. That's how confident I am he is Scum.

One of the main reasons I already outed: He is still alive. More: He is in the Doctors hood which had already lost a member on D1, and any Scum worth 2 grains of salt would want to remove that ASAP, and with the Commuters gone that's

the one

NK option Scum have if FL/EP were both Town.

Then there is the weird FoS by FL on Maria. He even voted her at one point but there was no real danger for the wagon to grow on her and he never once did push her for real.

Both FL & Maria were protecting DEB as if he was their only child. Yet again, Maria outright TR'd DEB while FL used his elusive ways of distraction, pretending to go along with a SR and magically finding a way to defuse the wagon and/or redirect discussion. Even when he did vote DEB he did that.

FL was so worried nom would venge him. He only voted her when she declared she didn't intend to take him out. It was like he didn't expect her to aim for Maria. Even if she decided to venge DEB it would have still netted Scum a Town kill (in nom) which was much better than lynching DEB outright.

FK's opening of the day was so scummy (that IS what triggered my slow clapping post). It's as if I had seen this movie before. I had foreseen everything he said today, including his indirect defence of DEB (reread his posts of today).

For those unfamiliar with FL's Scum play (and even for those who know him but may have overlooked some details) this looks very much like him in New Beginnings (Rick Dalton is FL).

His play around Maria is similar to his play around both me and ben in Mini Normal 2102 (Morality/Pretentious are both FL)

Also this game he was Scum with me (and dave) and I thought dave may want to take another look on any (or all) of them to remind him of Scum!FL's play and tactics.

Maria gave you the solve "in your face" after she got venged, stating we should lynch FL/DEB. Of course, almost every Town player will think it's WIFOM and reverse psychology dictates you get a little bit of your subconsciousness AGAINST the lynch of either of them because of it, which was EXACTLY the purpose of that post. (Why would SCUM who HAVE BEEN VENGED and know they're flipping soon ever post THAT?)

FL's "flip flopping" on me is NOT GENUINE. It's an attempt to replicate his TOWN play around me. However, he never ONCE tried to approach me in a way that looked like he's trying to sort me for real. Hell, he opened today stating I was a SR for him, then when I posted he immediately responded in a way that shows he's not convinced of that declared SR on me.

A50, ugh.

That’s the scummiest post I’ve ever seen, now’s not the time. I’m already waffling on your pancakes

Is this how you (dear reader) would responding to someone you had just stated as one if only 3 slots in your solve?

Panth, Dave, A50 is where I’m at.

There's so much more I could say about why this is SCUM!FLAVOR LEAF, but it would require me to go dig his ISO for more details.

Oh, and his positioning on the Creature wagon too. NOT the fact he voted Creature (although that come into play shortly) but the timing and him being the L-1 (separated by 3 others from Maria on the wagon).

As for the vote itself, you gotta ask yourself why Creature but not DEB? What has DEV done that is so mych different than Creature/Volxen? And to note Volxen/Creature WAS NOT A TOWN SLOT! I mean, if it was then MAYBE I would have bought the reluctance, but the fact it flipped NON-TOWN makes me wonder why he is still actively protecting DEB (and why Maria also did! Wait.. why SCUM!Maria (in case you forgot already) was so against a DEB lynch).

@FL: You had better lynch or NK me. Ank is untouchable for you as long as I'm alive, not because you can't push her, but because if I get my hands on that Vig shot you're dead, and that's a promise.

Nice talk, means nothing while your vote is in the wrong place.

@nom if you think Ank and FB are scum, you should vote Ank today. We can free up A50 to vig, which forces scum to pick between dave, the doctors, and A50.

@EP - this was I think right before you posted about FL's potential slip post - were you talking with FL about voting elsewhere in the group topic or earlier that real life day that you remember? I'm leaning towards it making more sense that Maria was considering voting FL and pushing it (as she had indicated she might in her in-thread posts around then) and FL-scum wanting her to stay on Ank for now, but you're the one with the actual context to go along with it - you seemed pretty focused on Ank atm and I don't see why FL asks you to be on one of Ank/Maria there when you're already on them unless there is some indication of indecision or consideration of changing your vote there that FL would have seen.

I know I'm going to feel like Sisyphus here, but the correct play is to lynch FL. I don't care if EP uses his Lightning Rod or not afterwards (would prefer him not to, but it's his call).

VOTE: FL

P-edit: I am furious at you too, dave. In fact..

VOTE: dave

You are still like 90% Town in my eyes, but hell if I care. You want to play your way? Fine. I'll throw and blame it on you.

VOTE: FL

^^ Actual thought process in real time.

Very interested in discussion relating to 6780.
Subtle reminder that it's possible to make strong points with few posts...

What sort of discussion are you looking for regarding 6780? I didn't see any new material + most of your points are effectively, "it's a dice roll" or "we'll have to wait to see."

I see it as mostly new material.
Maybe 90% of the thread has been a never ending series of 1v1 with practically no wholistic view imo.
Only one of the pairs is a dice roll, the A50/ank where any of the 3 likely outcomes is possible and I haven’t been able to dig deep enough. A50’s most recent leans strong town so I’m almost down to ank or nobody in that group.

I'm going to break one of my favorite personal guidelines here. ^**

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[kuribo]

@kuribo
u know rc never mentions any hatred of u. I am sure he isn't a fan but like everytime he comes up you go on to keep saying u hate him and its mutual and that he is a toxic, but he never says anything about how ur being toxic or constantly talk about how much he dislikes you.

nothing.

maybe you should get over ur hate of him because he clearly doesn't care that you hate him. In fact you don't even phase him. If you want to piss him off you should be insulting his skills. That's what he cares about.

I don't know what you think you accomplish with your anger at him. Because it doesn't bug RC, it doesn't change my opinion, and I don't think anyone else cares that you don't like him.

if its just to vent i guess go for it but ehh i think u could find a better outlet for it.

Then maybe I'm wrong and it's one sided


But we can also point to activities in this very game:

Who's idea was it to, by your own admission, intentionally antagonize me and then call me scum for getting pissed off about it?

[davesaz]

Group analysis
davesaz -- I'm town

Almost50 / Ankamius -- Behavioral TR on A50. Need to review Ank

Firebringer -- Pretty explicitly not scumhunting, and really should do some vote analysis of this slot

Kuribo / Panthaleon -- Much stronger TR on Kuribo. Panthaleon hasn't been memorable to me but a quick review had me leaning not-bussing

Gammagoey -- TR by behavior, slight SR on Flavor Leaf spew, all scum/3p hood would be interesting mechanically

Individual by reads
davesaz
Kuribo, Gammagoey, Almost50
Ankamius, Panthaleon
Firebringer

[Firebringer]

Firebringer -- Pretty explicitly not scumhunting, and really should do some vote analysis of this slot

i am still shocked everytime i see this.

i write small posts. How can u not read them?

[davesaz]

You say absolutely nothing about who is scum.

[Firebringer]

read this page.

not that hard my dude.

[davesaz]

Nope, you haven't expressed a scumread this page.

[davesaz]

RC being surprised your slot is alive is just hilarious.