Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Chara]

HURT: Nacho

i'm not going to do any more thinking about it than i have already.

[Chara]

i'm weak to AtE and i know that, but after going over his posting again and again it still feels as performatively town as it did yesterday. i'm dissatisfied with how we got here and i don't like being at the end having to make a decision, but you still have to, LyLo isn't exactly a time you can just sit out of the game.
i don't think not posting is disrespectful, though. or at least i don't like talking about game actions with that sort of language, and i don't like the suggestion to vote Hectic on what's basically policy, or if not policy a moral stance.

[Chara]

Nacho makes more sense as a Farkran partner too, i knew that going in to today, but then i started thinking Nacho must be town because of his avoidance of being the reason town loses, which i can empathize with and felt very real, and Hectic seemed comparatively unworried.

but that's one interaction i'm overweighing against the rest of the game.

[Hectic]

hey pal
i see the FIGHT vote
i have very little time today but will have more tomorrow
that's when i'll likely make my decision

[Hectic]

And if Hectic continues to keep posting in other games and give absolutely nothing here then I'm going to park my vote on him and fuck off elsewhere. You're in Final 3 - I get not having time, but what you're doing now is disrespectful.

i'm not gonna make an uninformed decision
i will be putting time into this

[Hectic]

some preliminary questions based on this day phase alone:

Chara, why did you place your vote on Nacho after Nacho had expressed near-intent to vote me? if Nacho placed his vote on me, it would make you the decider and mean a world where you are misFOUGHT never happens, so overall should increase the odds of victory

Nacho, why do you think scum!Chara votes you there after you placed near-intent? Any ideas?

[Nachomamma8]

HURT: Chara

Well, that's reassuring on a personal level at least.

[Nachomamma8]

some preliminary questions based on this day phase alone:

Chara, why did you place your vote on Nacho after Nacho had expressed near-intent to vote me? if Nacho placed his vote on me, it would make you the decider and mean a world where you are misFOUGHT never happens, so overall should increase the odds of victory

Nacho, why do you think scum!Chara votes you there after you placed near-intent? Any ideas?

Scum-Chara's path to victory is to mislynch me. Getting in that position with you and me crossvoting is slightly more advantageous, sure, but I see no reason why Chara wouldn't feel comfortable pushing you to make a decision now.

Why do you think Chara as town makes the decision when it did? I'd imagine that it would want to wait a bit longer after missing the day 2 days ago then getting cut off yesterday before it could expand on some thoughts that it had - don't you?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho makes more sense as a Farkran partner too

Why do I make sense as a Farkran partner?

[Chara]

some preliminary questions based on this day phase alone:

Chara, why did you place your vote on Nacho after Nacho had expressed near-intent to vote me? if Nacho placed his vote on me, it would make you the decider and mean a world where you are misFOUGHT never happens, so overall should increase the odds of victory

Nacho, why do you think scum!Chara votes you there after you placed near-intent? Any ideas?

i was avoiding the thread when i was pretty sure i wouldn't change my mind, and i wanted to stop doing it. agonizing over possibly being wrong isn't going to get anything done, and i wasn't enjoying the waiting, either.

[Chara]

Nacho makes more sense as a Farkran partner too

Why do I make sense as a Farkran partner?

you don't make sense, and i think that was the point of the risky day 3 bus Farkran took and then the day 4 bus. at a few points i discounted you two as a team entirely and i think that was the idea. Farkran wasn't being listened to all game so pushing you (using the same logic that no one was really on board with, Hectic scum) was an action he could feasibly take. and it was a strong one.

Farkran/Hectic means Farkran went after his partner, but with more potential for being listened to at the time, and then continued to do so after he was spared when the best course of action would have been to avoid Farkran's lynch.

[Chara]

Why do you think Chara as town makes the decision when it did? I'd imagine that it would want to wait a bit longer after missing the day 2 days ago then getting cut off yesterday before it could expand on some thoughts that it had - don't you?

why would i want to wait longer than i already had? at that point it was just avoiding committing to the decision i already had made.
i did get thrown off but i'm glad i did stick to that.

[Nachomamma8]

Hectic, most important person to be in the thread right now is you. There's not going to be an informed decision without healthy doses of you around.

[Hectic]

thanks for the answers, pals
could i ask you both what the single most scummy thing is that the other person has done in each day phase?
the rereading and proper interrogation begins tomorrow
the DOG's calling in the entire clone army

[Chara]

that might take more sorting through than i currently have the time for. off the top of my head i don't know if there's a neat "singularly scummy thing" Nacho has done during a particular phase. and he's been mostly a PoE read.

[Chara]

i know i didn't like him on day 5. there was the underlying self-awareness to his posting this game that i didn't like then, that shows he knows what he's doing and how it comes across. and i feel like the disparaging remarks about his own play have been genuine to some degree, because i'm sure he didn't start this game wanting to be absent because of irl or have to bus. again this isn't meant to be insulting, i really don't think he played badly, but i do think he's aware of his progressions not being great and so can spin that as inconsistent town rather than scum.

he called Amrun out for being suspicious of you (Hectic) saying she was setting up mislynches, and did the opposite himself (what he perceives as how town would act) by saying that it had to be Amrun or the game was lost. so coming into today he has to act like defeated town, but he avoided giving an opinion on either of us and wanted to step back and have someone else vote first.

the inability to explain how his reads changed is i think the biggest indicator. he was never able to adequately explain why Amrun and i were townreads, and his reasoning for voting Farkran over Bingle/Amrun/Chara (by poeing out teams) was weak, probably because the plan was to bus and use that for the win. when Amrun became the next one to lynch she suddenly wasn't a townread, and i was the better one, and when i pressed him on that he said he didn't realize until looking in hindsight that i always had been. i think it's perfectly possible to explain emotional reads. the only townread he really went all in on or went through a process for was Farkran, and Hectic he explained as well early game if my memory's right.

[Hectic]

HURT: unvote
i may have been wrong about Chara...
but i am a little suspicious...
i'm still hiding from her after we started playing hide and seek and she still hasn't found me...
maybe scum-indicative...?

aha! but i did find you. i knew where you were hiding the whole time, you kept whispering about it.

(...don't tell anyone i forgot we were playing........)

we didn't specify a reason...
did you already have an inclination for why we changed our mind...?

P.S: i was hiding with the River Person all along...
he doesn't say much... i like that...

[Hectic]

the inability to explain how his reads changed is i think the biggest indicator. he was never able to adequately explain why Amrun and i were townreads

[Nachomamma8]

I will reread when I get home to see if my memory is true (I tried to open my own ISO via phone and it wasn't a good idea) but I don't feel Chara has explained its townread on Amrun or why it went from town --> scum on me in detail.

When asked why my read on Amrun changed when it did, it was because I thought that Farkran's interactions with Amrun of usually townreading her and then only taking a couple of stabs here and there was similar to how Farkran typically treated scum partners (and something that was confirmed in an old scum topic of his). It wasn't that I wasn't townreading Amrun anymore (was townreading everyone) - just thought Amrun's interactions put her a tier below everyone else.

[Nachomamma8]

The idea that I, as experienced scum who has been playing over a decade and faked the number and depth of interactions with Farkran that I've had this game and am somehow unable to fake a town-case on a townie would be insulting if I didn't know it was fake.

[Chara]

Hectic: don't remember specifics, but i wasn't suspicious of you there because it seemed like you were working through the read in general, and i was satisfied with the TR.

Nacho: i believe i spent a good portion of the game talking about my Amrun read, but especially on day 5. as for my read on you, you were a townread from your start but that faded and for most of the game i had you in leftovers.

[Hectic]

WHY FAKRAN IS FRIEND:

1)

In Fakran's opening, I really like how he was fairly scattered and combative and took a number of shots to the wall that obviously weren't popular - in particular, I liked how he went from calling Amrun his strongest townread to immediately attacking her two posts down the road (and thought that him getting concerned about her interacting with her top scumread was a reasonable line of inquiry and demonstrates him handling a bunch of different possibilities all at once). It's possible for scum to come out swinging on all cylinders in the way that he did here, but it's a remarkably risky move to take close to deadline since he's basically taken a swing at everyone who's anyone all at once - the level of conviction that resulted in "even a lynch on me is better than sparing!" is remarkably ballsy without solid theory to stand behind.

I like this post wrt Amrun from Farkran, and have based pieces of my read on Replica based on this reasoning exactly. If Farkran is scum I'm not sure he offers a townread like that which is so hard to back away from.

I think that this post is also a really weird and emotionally manipulative one if Farkran is scum here. Farkran has his feelings hurt a bit by Suji calling him "detrimental to town or a strong Mafia leader", and uses that as leverage to jab back and say that Suji wasn't acting like themselves.

It's also crazy hard for me to see something like this meta engagement bit and then launching into Replica being near certain because he spoke about the danger of people sheeping his vote and wagons creating coming from scum in a million billion years - again, that's sticking your neck way way out for absolutely no reason if scum - which of course comes in the middle of a bunch of Farkran prodding at various groups moving together (Hectic spare being equal to Farkran fight, etc) - there's just a lot of shit going on here if Farkran is scum - a ton of effort put into "showing progressions and showing that he's willing to push reads" but not a lot of effort into an actual scum agenda.

Loved the salty response here - that shit was pure.

Farkran coming out with guns ablazing against you/Replica/Hectic here makes no fucking sense if Farkran is scum here; there's definitely diminishing returns associated with being townread for being crazy in this setup (not likely to get spared if you go too far off the ranch). And I can go on if you'd like but the whole read is along the same lines - Fakran is extraordinarily genuine and taking a very very absurd track if scum, Fakran also has pretty excellent progressions on reads if scum and also tends to run through a large # of possible scum worlds all at once that surface now and again in his ISO. Fakran is almost certainly town.

errors you made now?

I'm Grillby btw, let me know if you need any ketchup. You're a freind of Sans, and that guy is obsessed.

[popsofctown]

Woshua

[popsofctown]

Jerry

[popsofctown]

Tsundereplane