Mini #553: Over!

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Why me? I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but on the off chance that I'm wrong, please explain.

I believe Guardian and Sethaniel should equally be trying to get me to not switch my vote.

[Sethaniel]

Bab, do you think Guardian or I want a no lynch?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

By the way, telling me to "see the light" makes me feel like I'm being confronted by a Jehova's Witness*, something I don't enjoy.

Anyway, I'm

unvoting

My choice now comes down to to things:
1) I now* feel that Guardian's actions fit as scum more than Destructor. I know this is going to really piss you off, Guardian, but I don't have specific examples for you to defend yourself with. Sorry.
2) However, it doesn't seem balanced that Destructor is unnkable while a SK wasn't. His claim also seems like a really convenient one for scum.

2 is the main thing preventing me from voting to Guardian right now. It doesn't seem quite fair or normal that the mod would do that. HOWEVER:
i) was it quite fair that there were town roles outside and in the fellowship?
ii) was it normal that our doctor had a semi-tracking role also?

*I reread a large portion of the game and read the recent events to change my mind.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Seth, I think you do want a no-lynch. Am I correct?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Future speculation stuff. Not much to do with who to vote for today:

At this point in the game, I am assuming that there are two scum left. It’s not too bad of an assumption, because if I’m wrong, we can just forget all this stuff I’m saying here. Also, we’ll get the next day to lynch the other person (guardian or destructor) to ensure a mafia nk tomorrow if we have one scum left.
So in other words, it doesn’t really matter too much who we lynch now (ideally it’d be scum) if we have one mafia left, but it really matters if we have two left (endgame).

So, my assumption is that we have two scum left. Now I can use this to eliminate scum partners.

The current votes are:

destructor (3)

- Guardian, BridgesandBaloons, Sethaniel

Guardian (3)

- Matt_S, ting =), destructor

Also, assuming that there isn’t some horrible misunderstanding, either Destructor or Guardian is scum.

This means that if Destructor is pro-town, then Matt_S and Ting are protown while Guardian and Sethaniel are scum. (if you weren't me, then you would think that either Seth or I were partners with Guardian in this case).

This means that if Guardian is pro-town, then Seth must be pro-town (I must be pro-town also in this case, but considering this whole thing is coming from me, I already know that), and Matt_S or Ting are scum-partners with Destructor.

[Guardian]

destructor, honestly, whatever it pisses me off but I am beyond getting worked up about it.

I've laid everything out there, and this game is there for the town to vote destructor and try to win or vote me and lose. If you want to go on a "feeling" and lose the game go for it.

---

destructor voted someone else at likely LYLO when a town power role claimed to have a result incriminating him. From his perspective, that means that role is 100% lying and 100% should be lynched.

Him voting for anyone but me then makes absolutely no sense, and the fact that Matt_S, ting =), and now you are even CONSIDERING voting me over destructor after those shenanigans is just beyond me. He literally cannot be town. it makes absolutely no flipping sense. Yet you continue to chase rainbows.

[Sethaniel]

I don't want a nolynch, bab. I want destructor dead.
Your analysis is a bit simplistic, though. Someone could very well be bussing their partner.

[Matt_S]

Your analysis is a bit simplistic, though. Someone could very well be bussing their partner.

If there's any bussing going on, then it's between destructor and Guardian. At lynch or lose, there's no reason to bus a buddy if the mislynch is at L-1.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Sethaniel, my analysis on scum partnering was based on the fact that the people could have ended and won the game with their partner by switching votes.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Guardian, I wish for you to address the end of post 927.

[Guardian]

BAB, I wish for you to address the end of post 930.

2 is the main thing preventing me from voting to Guardian right now. It doesn't seem quite fair or normal that the mod would do that. HOWEVER:
i) was it quite fair that there were town roles outside and in the fellowship?
ii) was it normal that our doctor had a semi-tracking role also?

i) I'd say it was unfair to scum if anything, so destructor's claimed role makes it even more unfair.
ii) Again unfair to scum, so destructor's claimed role makes it even more unfair.

I assume the mod had a more balanced setup rather than a less balanced setup. destructor's claimed role seems to lead to an obviously less balanced and more unfair setup.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

What destructor did was something that I would totally do in his shoes. (I'll explain why I think he did it later in this post). I made the mistake before by allowing Massive to be lynched even when he through many of the same thoughts I did. What destructor did made me think that he was townie, because what he did was something

I

would have done in that case.

Destructor knows that either himself or you will be lynched today;

I'm completely aware that the best play for the rest of the town today is to lynch one of me of Guardian because they all

know

that one of us is lying.

He was using his vote to show something. At this point, (according to the assumptions of post 923), Destructor would know that either me or seth are Guardian's scum-partner. He attacked Seth because he wanted to show who he thought Guardian's scum partner is.

The fact that both you and Sethaniel have been pretty much ignoring post 900 makes me think that you're scum desperately trying to get "evidence" to stack onto Destructor. You saying that his actions make no sense is completely tunnel-vissioned, and

not the things a townie should say

. You seemed so open minded before. Now you can't possibly understand what Destructor was doing?
I don't buy that.

I assume the mod had a more balanced setup rather than a less balanced setup. destructor's claimed role seems to lead to an obviously less balanced and more unfair setup.

So Guardian, you assume the same mod that continued giving people (including me) the theme names after the theme was specifically supposed to be unthemed had a really balanced game?

Or what about this: We're most likely in LYLO right now, so whatever the power roles are, it's balanced. Or what about this: The scum might have some power roles, the scum have safe-claims, or anything else that would balance it. Or what about this: the cop we had was paranoid? That's something that could seriously hurt the town the second day.

Really your main point boils down to outguessing the mod which is a bad move. I'd rather go with who I feel is scummier.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

EEBWOP:

one

of your main points...

[Matt_S]

Destructor's vote seemed like a gambit. I don't particularly like it when townies do gambits, but whether I like it is irrelevant. Saying he "cannot be town" is a gross exaggeration. I could also say that you cannot be town because your claim directly contradicts the claim of a confirmed townie, but that would also be an exaggeration.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I'm making my decision tomorrow, so if anyone has any words before my vote you should make them soon.

[Guardian]

I'm making my decision tomorrow, so if anyone has any words before my vote you should make them soon.

You've said you found him scummier and that I'm arguing better and now are getting into arguments with me over details. I'll be extremely miffed if you throw the game based on a last minute feeling.

I'm only ignoring things to the extent they make no bloody sense. In destructor's position I could also see myself voting Sethaniel -- it is a nifty WIFOM scum trick.

But in his alleged position of UNnkable town, I absolutely cannot see myself doing it and you saying you can see yourself doing it is absurd to me.

If you can see yourself as an innocent player voting anyone else but an information role who claims that he knows you are scum with 100% certainty, you need to rethink your mafia strategy.

my info conflicted massive's, yes. Either the mod sucked, or there was a RB. Either of those are much more plausible than destructor voting seth on the notion that he has me already and should shoot to prove that Sethaniel is my scum partner. If I get lynched and was scum destructor would have all the leeway he needs to pursue Sethaniel on the morrow. He only voted Sethaniel to factionalize the town and get people in a town vs. Sethaniel & Guardian mindest, and it seems to be working bloody well on you BAB.

No matter how bad the mod is you assume they TRIED to balance the setup. destructor's role, and its being UNnkable, when the mod CHOSE NOT TO USE THAT MECHANIC on the two roles that HAVE IT 90% of the time and then CHOOSING TO USE IT on a TOWN role that appears in <5% of all games is absolutely RIDICULOUS, and beyond the mod even ATTEMPTING to have a balanced setup.

Even were I an independent observer, I'd bet my mafiascum career on this

. It is unfathomable to me how one townie and now perhaps two are convinced I am scum and he is merrily telling the truth.

If you (plural) lynch me over destructor you personally are 100% responsible for throwing away a win-able game.

[destructor]

But in his alleged position of UNnkable town, I absolutely cannot see myself doing it and you saying you can see yourself doing it is absurd to me.

If you can see yourself as an innocent player voting anyone else but an information role who claims that he knows you are scum with 100% certainty, you need to rethink your mafia strategy.

I wasn't interested in responding to and raising the same argument again. Rather than run around in circles I thought I'd vote Seth. I already explained why I did this. I don't even know why you're saying it's not something an innocent would do, or even specifically an unNK townie.

[Sethaniel]

I know I'm not scum. Therefore, I have to be suspicious of des trying to attack me.

[Matt_S]

Guardian, your anger reminds me of a game when a suspected serial killer tried to avoid being lynched. He insisted that there was a cult and that we had to lynch a cult member or we'd throw away the game. I didn't buy into it, and I lynched him, and we won. I didn't know if he was the serial killer. I just knew that him being scum made the most sense, and I went with it. I'm going with what makes the most sense here. Part of my thinking is that the probability of either Sethaniel or BAB being scum seems higher than the probability of ting being scum. Another part is that your actions only make sense as scum if you have a buddy, while destructor could be alone as scum. You have said that this line of thinking is wrong, because it relies on assumptions, yet I've explained why it doesn't. I'm looking at the big picture, and even if I ignored everything else, your case relies on assumptions involving either the mod not doing their job, massive being roleblocked over anyone else, or massive lying for some reason.

[ting =)]

ting

matt mirrors my feelings exactly, both with his logic and his

sad

lack of smiley.

[Sethaniel]

Matt, perhaps you're right.

I'm voting destructor because he voted for me, at a time when I thought that course of action made little sense. If I take a step back from that, and look at the evidence--

The salient points here are:
1. guardian said he had role-based info that proved massive was lying.
2. Massive was town.
3. Guardian's defense

relies on assumptions involving either the mod not doing their job, massive being roleblocked over anyone else, or massive lying for some reason.

unvote, vote guardian

[BridgesAndBaloons]

That's the hammer....

[ting =)]

I call bussing.

[Talitha]

Final Vote Count

Guardian (4)

- Matt_S, ting =), destructor, Sethaniel

destructor (1)

- Guardian,

Not Voting: BridgesandBaloons,


Guardian is lynched! Guardian was mafia.

It is now Night 3. Please get any night choices in within 72 hours.

[Talitha]

It's morning! You all wake up....






Whoops, not so fast ting=)

ting=) (townie) has been killed overnight.

There are 4 alive, 3 votes will lynch.