Mini 626 - Crew vs. Pigs - GAME OVER!!

[forbiddanlight]

Forbiddan: there are two teams of cops, each team has to get rid of the other to win. (If not, this setup would be extremely broken). So for the pigs it is a prisoners dilemma. Ennui's buddy does not want to be found by the second team, because they would get rid of him. If he claims, he loses the game

why, flavorically? They are all part of the same idea, pigs. I don't know what the rules of cross arrests are...actually...

Mod: If you are able to tell us, are there any specific rules relating to cross arrests? And what is the win condition of the pigs?

You're overlooking the idea of multiple scum teams and how it plays a role here. It's definitely possible that there are 3 pigs and the game isn't over.

I was kinda hoping the pigs wouldn't pick up on this and claim. I was taking a chance, but ah well.

Here is my overall thought. We have Fonz (Doctor) and Cass (Roleblocker). Both have the potential to screw stuff up tonight if they are scum. Fonz could block a kill on a scum buddy and Cass could roleblock the vig shot. My initial thought is that one of the two is scum and the other scum are Matin/DD. If I'm correct, that means we'd have to correctly lynch whichever of The Fonz/Cass are scum to avoid having forbiddan's shot blocked tonight.

Personally, I think our best chance is to lynch Cass, and have me shoot a target of my choice to WIFOM Fonz if he's scum. However, we could be screwed if Cass isn't scum, so we have to be careful.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm going to go ahead and claim, since I see no reason not to complete the mass claim.

I'm Ronnie Ravioli. I'm the crew's watcher/tracker.

Each night I can keep an eye on someone and make sure they aren't working against the crew, or make sure they aren't worked over by the pigs.

Night 1, I tracked Ting. He did not target anyone.

Night 2, I tracked forbiddan. I can confirm that she did target DD last night.

I haven't made any decisions yet about who I'm going to watch or track tonight. That's going to depend on the results of today's lynch.

[Cass]

And what makes me pretty sure of three pigs is firstly the flavor. Cops work in pairs. It would also fit in with the amount of of power roles the town has and with how these games are generally set up. Also, Fonz just said there's three, and he should know

Interestingly, in the unlikely case that the cops are both alone and Fonz is actually telling the truth, the plan would still work (we'd end up two townies and one pig).

FL: I will not block you, I will prevent an arrest! Also, if I were planning to block you, why ever would I need to direct you to DD (or anyone in particular)?

[forbiddanlight]

Well, I'm definitely glad you tracked me, just a bit curious why. Also, why Ting N1?

Furthermore, this practically confirms you due to the fact that I don't think the pigs have 2 watcher trackers. OF course, that also makes it a safe claim :S...ah well, it's a chance we take. I see this game as having 4 elements, 2-3 of which are potential scum. Well, really, 3 elements, since I'm pretty sold on DD being scum given his backpedalling and attempt to get me lynched. So, 3 elements, Matin, Fonz, and Cass, 1-2 of which are scum...hmm.

[forbiddanlight]

FL: I will not block you, I will prevent an arrest! Also, if I were planning to block you, why ever would I need to direct you to DD (or anyone in particular)?

Bad logic on my part. Fonz would fit a lot better for that. However, can we be sure that you will prevent an arrest? Honestly, if we guess wrong, games over, you are a mafia RB, my kill is blocked, I'm killed cause we lynched the doctor, and pigs ruin the crew.

[The Fonz]

And what makes me pretty sure of three pigs is firstly the flavor. Cops work in pairs. It would also fit in with the amount of of power roles the town has and with how these games are generally set up. Also, Fonz just said there's three, and he should know

EVERY scumgame with multiple scum groups has had a total of four. Unless you think there is an sk cop or something. I didn't state it as fact any more than you did, as you well know, but continue distorting, as scum.

FL: I will not block you, I will prevent an arrest! Also, if I were planning to block you, why ever would I need to direct you to DD (or anyone in particular)?

No, she as scum will block you ftw. I will protect you, but...

[Cass]

Flavorically, I'd say they are competing teams, someone like their district commanders (or whatever the rank is called) wants all the credit for cleaning up this mafia crew. That's also why they are hiding from eachother. Makes perfect sense to me.

[forbiddanlight]

Flavorically, I'd say they are competing teams, someone like their district commanders (or whatever the rank is called) wants all the credit for cleaning up this mafia crew. That's also why they are hiding from eachother. Makes perfect sense to me.

I guess that's possible.

Unless you think there is an sk cop or something.

This was more along the lines of what I was thinking. But, it's just conjecture.

[Cass]

@Forbiddan: did you reread Fonz? What do you think he meant to do with his calling out for the vig first thing today? After you had allready claimed! Do you not think it weird? And why is he ignoring this fact now when I have already brought it up three times??

[The Fonz]

Because you're scum, and it's not at all weird. I wanted to know whether we could clear DD or not. If we could, i wanted a claim. If not, i didn't think it was worth compromising the vig's identity.

Simple. And Pro-town.

[forbiddanlight]

Ok, honestly, I don't like The Fonz' play upon reread, compared to yours Cass. But your play could just be the mark of skilled distancing. I really still don't know what to think, and you seemed over eager to lynch Fonz today. We need to be careful right now.

[Cass]

My point was more along the lines: however did you miss FL's claim in the posts above yours??

[forbiddanlight]

Cicero, I see you in this forum. Can you at least answer my question saying you can't answer it if you can't?

[cicero]

Mod: If you are able to tell us, are there any specific rules relating to cross arrests? And what is the win condition of the pigs?

Question seen. No comment uttered. Poker face strictly maintained. Good luck.

Much love,

Cicero

ps. I wrote this before I saw the post immediately above this one re-asking me to do so. That's how cool I am.

[forbiddanlight]

Ah well, worth a shot. Really didn't think he'd say anything.

[cicero]

Day Three Vote Count 4

[/b]

The Fonz[1] (Cass)
Cass[1] (The Fonz)

Not Voting[4] (Matin, Darkdude, Goatrevolt, Forbiddanlight)

With 6 Alive 4 will lynch

[The Fonz]

Well, I'm definitely glad you tracked me, just a bit curious why. Also, why Ting N1?

Furthermore, this practically confirms you due to the fact that I don't think the pigs have 2 watcher trackers.

They could easily have one per group... that said, he is the only claimed town info role thus far. I reserve judgement until i hear matin's claim.

[forbiddanlight]

Same. I know he was in this forum, but not sure if he saw the thread expanded by 2 or 3 pages and said fuck it, or is being avoidant.

[Cass]

I'm overeager because it is the one solution that saves this crew. Really, really eager to do that.

Wait, how about this:
Assumptions: a pig can either arrest or use their power in a given night, not both. DD's vest is broken.

Day: We lynch Matin.
Night: Fonz protects Goat. Goat tracks me. Forbiddan shoots DD. I block DD.

If I am a pig: I have to target DD, or I am outed. If DD lives, I am outed, and Goat knows I targeted Forbiddan. Also, there is no arrest. If there is an arrest, DD is still dead and Goat knows I'm guilty. You then lynch me.

If Fonz is a pig: Goat sees me targeting DD. If DD dies and there is an arrest, the arrest can't be Goat (if it is, Fonz is outed). So, Goat can tell whether I targeted the person arrested or not. If DD lives, Goat is outed.
Probably there will be no arrest, but in that case the town is still very much alive and I'm sure we can solve things from there.

Both scenario's lead to a proven scum or to no arrest. And no strong need to trust me. Looks good to me, but definitely point out any flaws in my logic.

[forbiddanlight]

Assumptions: a pig can either arrest or use their power in a given night, not both. DD's vest is broken.

This is the main flaw. Can we take that risk? Did it say anything about that in Ennui's role PM?

Also, I wanna see a Matin claim.

[forbiddanlight]

You want the crew out of business. Dead or arrested. You also want to make sure that YOU get the final collar. So if there's anyone else working this case, you want them in a jail cell and out of commission too. After all your career is at stake. You win when everyone but 18th Precinct is eliminated.

Well, there's your 3 scum proof right there anyway. Sorry I missed that.

Each night you may send me the name of a person who you and your partner have chosen to arrest. You must specify who is performing the arrest.

This supports your assumption, actually.

Alright, I'm in favor of the plan.

[Cass]

Yes, from my point of view, it is far more risky than lynching Fonz. But if you and Goat prefer it, I would go along with this scenario.
I think these assumptions are reasonable and if untrue, we're probably screwed no matter what we do.

[forbiddanlight]

I'd like goat to analyze it before I vote though. He's a better player than I am.

[darkdude]

Wait, I need to clarify what I said before someone gets lynched.

FIRST OF ALL,

I suggest we not vote until we have come to a consent with FOSs because it is LyLo.

Now second, my case against FL is still not finished, but what I originally said was this:

I cannot be arrested by pigs. My role says it means I am NK immune. This implies all killings are done by arrests. FL claims to actually KILL, not ARREST, therefore I doubt the claim.

And now Fonz also put a case against FL with his claim. How the hell does he protect against FL's "vig kills" if he's a lawyer? Does his role say that he can only protect people from pigs? NO!

FL is scum.

[Cass]

I shall

Unvote: The Fonz
Vote: Matin

Because I really have to go to sleep now. Fonz, this is your chance to prove that I am scum, without dying even! If you are honest, of course...